Why Does Constipation Occur In A Hypothyroid State If Serotonin Is What Creates Gut Mobility?

[Parsifal]

Same question as in the title, especially because thyroid hormone might lowers serotonin levels an increase CO2 concentration.
Also, why would an hormone that is involved in hibernation make the animals poop (I thought it would be the opposite)?

How do you manage to not get constipation once your serotonin is lowered enough?
Does cascara irritate the gut and create serotonin?

 

[tara]

Why does constipation occurs in a hypothyroid state if serotonin is what creates gut mobility?

I think low levels of thyroid hormone and CO2 at least, and maybe other things like Mg, can leave the gut short on energy for peristalsis and good water handling, so you can get a more swollen gut with a smaller lumen, and less peristalsis action, both of which can contribute to constipation.

I think Peat favours well-aged cascara sagrada because the main active ingredient, emodin, tends to reduce gut inflammation - widening a constricted lumen, and has other energy-supportive effects. Some of the pharmaceutical laxatives he talks about functon by stimulating increased serotonin, and that's why he recommends cascara sagrada over them.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/ca ... buse.shtml

 

[Derek]

Why does constipation occurs in a hypothyroid state if serotonin is what creates gut mobility?

It's not a rule that if you're hypothyroid you have high serotonin. People who are hypothyroid can also have low serotonin. People with good thyroid function can have high serotonin.

For constipation just eat foods that help you go. Potatoes are good, bananas are good. If you drink milk, OJ and eat liver, oysters and meat; you are likely going to be constipated. Not enough fiber/bulk in order to form a bowel movement. I would rather eat potatoes than take cascara, but that's just me.

Also, what's your NA/K ratio? If you're constipated maybe not enough K and too much NA?

 

[haidut]

Why does constipation occurs in a hypothyroid state if serotonin is what creates gut mobility?

post 113278 Same question as in the title, especially because thyroid hormone might lowers serotonin levels an increase CO2 concentration.
Also, why would an hormone that is involved in hibernation make the animals poop (I thought it would be the opposite)?

How do you manage to not get constipation once your serotonin is lowered enough?
Does cascara irritate the gut and create serotonin?

Ray said that serotonin stimulates motility of the small intestine but strongly inhibits it in the large. Serotonin also stimulates NO production, as well as prolactin release and both of these are implicated in constipation even if serotonin is "normal".
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2694720/
"...Over 50 years ago, it was demonstrated that 5-HT affects intestinal motility in humans, though initial studies suggested it stimulated small bowel motility and inhibited gastric and colonic phasic contractions (16,17). Sigmoid colonic motility appears to be increased in patients with IBS. Involvement of 5-HT in the dysmotility observed in IBS remains unclear, although data show a possible relationship between endogenous concentrations of 5-HT and sigmoid colonic motility recorded in both IBS and healthy subjects."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3214685/
"...Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS) is considered to be a physical disorder that mainly affects the bowel and is clinically characterized by lower abdominal pain or discomfort, diarrhea, constipation (or alternating diarrhea/constipation), gas, bloating, and nausea. According to recent studies, it appears that there is an association with increased prolactin levels in patients suffering from IBS. We report a rare case of regression of IBS symptoms (constipation type) in a 16-year-old female adolescent after receiving cabergoline for treating hyperprolactinemia due to pituitary macroadenoma. Our hypothesis is that increased prolactin levels, for instance due to a pituitary adenoma, may suppress prolactin-releasing peptide release and lead to a reverse feedback interaction, consequently resulting in oversecretion of cholecystokinin, inducing the development of IBS."

 

[jyb]

Why does constipation occurs in a hypothyroid state if serotonin is what creates gut mobility?

post 113278 Same question as in the title, especially because thyroid hormone might lowers serotonin levels an increase CO2 concentration.
Also, why would an hormone that is involved in hibernation make the animals poop (I thought it would be the opposite)?

How do you manage to not get constipation once your serotonin is lowered enough?
Does cascara irritate the gut and create serotonin?

It's abnormally high serotonin that's the problem. A normal level of serotonin is useful, it has a purpose. Just look at the side effects of Ondansetron, which is (too) effective at shutting down the gut serotonin activity.

The same can be said about many other hormones.

 

[Parsifal]

Why does constipation occurs in a hypothyroid state if serotonin is what creates gut mobility?

Thanks guys, these were the answers I was looking for!

 

[Derek]

Why does constipation occurs in a hypothyroid state if serotonin is what creates gut mobility?

post 113379 Ray said that serotonin stimulates motility of the small intestine

Hopefully this causes people to rethink the relationship between serotonin and SIBO. Lot's of people here trying to deplete serotonin and lots of people here with SIBO.

 

[natedawggh]

post 113278 Same question as in the title, especially because thyroid hormone might lowers serotonin levels an increase CO2 concentration.
Also, why would an hormone that is involved in hibernation make the animals poop (I thought it would be the opposite)?

How do you manage to not get constipation once your serotonin is lowered enough?
Does cascara irritate the gut and create serotonin?

I'm of the opinion that serotonin doesn't do that. I've been on a major serotonin reduction protocol for almost a year and the less serotonin I have the better my gut moves digestion.

 

[Parsifal]

It's not a rule that if you're hypothyroid you have high serotonin. People who are hypothyroid can also have low serotonin. People with good thyroid function can have high serotonin.

Isn't Ray saying all the contrary? That CO2 antagonize serotonin (IIRC)? So thyroid must antagonize serotonin? Serotonin promotes hibernation and giving thyroid to hibernating animals wakes them. Serotonin increases estrogen and estrogen increases serotonin which shut down thyroid/metabolim.
Thyroid seems to raise dopamin levels which antagonizes serotonin as well.
So maybe it is possible to have low serotonin AND low thyroid but I don't believe that it is possible to have high thyroid and serotonin.

For constipation just eat foods that help you go. Potatoes are good, bananas are good. If you drink milk, OJ and eat liver, oysters and meat; you are likely going to be constipated. Not enough fiber/bulk in order to form a bowel movement. I would rather eat potatoes than take cascara, but that's just me.

The problem is that I can't tolerate fibers at all (just carrots), even pectin from fruits, it gives me a flu and I feel druged afterwards. Ray said that starches, fibers/butyrate stimulate serotonin production, endotoxins and fibrin. It makes sense because I get a lot of crusty hard dandruff (and on the fingers too) the day after I eat starches/fibers which might be from fibrin and calcifications in my opinion... I have reduced my stress hormones a lot because I feel relaxed and warm but I'm still having these endotoxins problems which is strange because most people on "normal" diets seem to have no problems.

Ray said that serotonin stimulates motility of the small intestine but strongly inhibits it in the large

Well it makes sense and it seems very easy to fall into a vicious cycle with serotonin getting produced more and more shutting metabolism and making one become constipated.

Otherwise, I was asking this question because I remember that someone said that lowering serotonin can constipate but once the thyroid is strong the gut motility is okay (so maybe dopamin replaces the serotonin?). My temperature is really better and I'm doing everything I can to lower serotoin but even if my constipation improved a bit it is far from being perfect yet which puts me in a vicious cycle (will get more endoxotins because the food stay in the gut for too long which will make me more constipated).
Tianeptine seems to constipate me more. Methylene Blue which reduces NO doesn't help as well. I think I have low prolactin now. Doing red light as well. Maybe I should wait a bit.

 

[lexis]

Have you tried Tyrosine?

 

[TeslaFan]

post 113278 Same question as in the title, especially because thyroid hormone might lowers serotonin levels an increase CO2 concentration.
Also, why would an hormone that is involved in hibernation make the animals poop (I thought it would be the opposite)?

How do you manage to not get constipation once your serotonin is lowered enough?
Does cascara irritate the gut and create serotonin?

Serotonin is a constrictor of blood vessels (via smooth muscles) and of intestines. For a normal bowel movement you need a balance of constriction and relaxation of bowels to keep things moving. So, when you are constipated, you most likely have elevated gut serotonin. And, as you assumed correctly, you would not want hibernating animals to poop

For example, Ondansetron can cause constipation because it blocks action of serotonin on specific site ("type 3 receptor"), thus directing all of serotonin to overstimulate other sites (such as 2A/2C receptors), and these, when activated, can cause intestinal constriction, a.k.a constipation. Ondansetron does not remove any serotonin.

 

[Parsifal]

post 115680

post 113278 Same question as in the title, especially because thyroid hormone might lowers serotonin levels an increase CO2 concentration.
Also, why would an hormone that is involved in hibernation make the animals poop (I thought it would be the opposite)?

How do you manage to not get constipation once your serotonin is lowered enough?
Does cascara irritate the gut and create serotonin?

Serotonin is a constrictor of blood vessels (via smooth muscles) and of intestines. For a normal bowel movement you need a balance of constriction and relaxation of bowels to keep things moving. So, when you are constipated, you most likely have elevated gut serotonin. And, as you assumed correctly, you would not want hibernating animals to poop

For example, Ondansetron can cause constipation because it blocks action of serotonin on specific site ("type 3 receptor"), thus directing all of serotonin to overstimulate other sites (such as 2A/2C receptors), and these, when activated, can cause intestinal constriction, a.k.a constipation. Ondansetron does not remove any serotonin.

Hmmm that is interesting. Which anti-serotonin drugs do remove serotonin then?

 

[superhuman]

haidut or others. Why does sodium bicarbonate speed up bowel movements so much? When i ingest a good amount of it, everything flows like crazy

 

[TeslaFan]

post 115705

post 115680

post 113278 Same question as in the title, especially because thyroid hormone might lowers serotonin levels an increase CO2 concentration.
Also, why would an hormone that is involved in hibernation make the animals poop (I thought it would be the opposite)?

How do you manage to not get constipation once your serotonin is lowered enough?
Does cascara irritate the gut and create serotonin?

Serotonin is a constrictor of blood vessels (via smooth muscles) and of intestines. For a normal bowel movement you need a balance of constriction and relaxation of bowels to keep things moving. So, when you are constipated, you most likely have elevated gut serotonin. And, as you assumed correctly, you would not want hibernating animals to poop

For example, Ondansetron can cause constipation because it blocks action of serotonin on specific site ("type 3 receptor"), thus directing all of serotonin to overstimulate other sites (such as 2A/2C receptors), and these, when activated, can cause intestinal constriction, a.k.a constipation. Ondansetron does not remove any serotonin.

Hmmm that is interesting. Which anti-serotonin drugs do remove serotonin then?

According to some research posted here, Quinine, original anti-malarial drug, degrades Serotonin. L-Theanine, amino acid found in green tea, apparently does it as well. Finally, P-chlorophenylalanine, definitely does it. RP talked about the last two in his serotonin articles.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I am a male and when I was experimenting with progesterone it made my bowels sluggish and I was frequently constipated.

 

[FredSonoma]

Isn't Ray saying all the contrary? That CO2 antagonize serotonin (IIRC)? So thyroid must antagonize serotonin? Serotonin promotes hibernation and giving thyroid to hibernating animals wakes them. Serotonin increases estrogen and estrogen increases serotonin which shut down thyroid/metabolim.
Thyroid seems to raise dopamin levels which antagonizes serotonin as well.
So maybe it is possible to have low serotonin AND low thyroid but I don't believe that it is possible to have high thyroid and serotonin.



The problem is that I can't tolerate fibers at all (just carrots), even pectin from fruits, it gives me a flu and I feel druged afterwards. Ray said that starches, fibers/butyrate stimulate serotonin production, endotoxins and fibrin. It makes sense because I get a lot of crusty hard dandruff (and on the fingers too) the day after I eat starches/fibers which might be from fibrin and calcifications in my opinion... I have reduced my stress hormones a lot because I feel relaxed and warm but I'm still having these endotoxins problems which is strange because most people on "normal" diets seem to have no problems.



Well it makes sense and it seems very easy to fall into a vicious cycle with serotonin getting produced more and more shutting metabolism and making one become constipated.

Otherwise, I was asking this question because I remember that someone said that lowering serotonin can constipate but once the thyroid is strong the gut motility is okay (so maybe dopamin replaces the serotonin?). My temperature is really better and I'm doing everything I can to lower serotoin but even if my constipation improved a bit it is far from being perfect yet which puts me in a vicious cycle (will get more endoxotins because the food stay in the gut for too long which will make me more constipated).
Tianeptine seems to constipate me more. Methylene Blue which reduces NO doesn't help as well. I think I have low prolactin now. Doing red light as well. Maybe I should wait a bit.

I think I might have very similar problems to you (with gut / fiber / etc). Curious how you're doing / if things have improved / what you did to improve them.

 

[Parsifal]

I think I might have very similar problems to you (with gut / fiber / etc). Curious how you're doing / if things have improved / what you did to improve them.

I'm still doing research/experiments with fibers. I thought that I could not eat starch and other fibers without becoming very sick but I did an interesting discovery.
My gut doesn't like mushrooms, carrots, potatoes, normal rice or other starches, even very well cooked, with fat, etc.
It gives me a runny nose right after eating, inflammed lymph nodes, feeling depressed, hypertension, high adrenalin/cortisol (so anxiety), sometimes flu symptoms and endotoxins. Even with activated charcoal everyday I could not eat it.

The only "Peaty" fiber that I seemed to tolerate was bamboo shoots that is almost impossible to source here or very expensive.

I don't have access to good quality fruits or to fruits that I tolerate (as pectin-free as possible). I cannot drink too much liquids without becoming hypothyroid, so cannot live of orange juice or milk, and sucrose and things like that don't satisfy me, I need to eat a lot of it everytime (sometimes up to 400g a day!) or else I felt low blood sugar, fatigue, stress, etc, but it was too much and I was storing it in fat.
Too much saturated fat also seems to raise my serotonin and make me feel bad (runny nose just after, etc).

So, I've discovered thanks to @tyw that I can tolerate sticky/round short grain/sushi white rice (very slight runny nose afterwards but generally it is the same with milk). It doesn't really seem to give me endotoxin symptoms (for now).
It seems that it has a higher ratio of amylopectin to amylose than other starches so easily digestible.
It is also rich in minerals that I don't get with other foods that I tolerate (molybdenum, manganese) and rich in B vitamins (people still say that it is devoid of nutrients...).
I am satisfied with less calories with it for now (no need to eat more than 2500 kcal) and think that I will be able to loose a bit of fat... I will go back to school tomorrow and will see if it keeps me energized and satisfied for 4 hours straight (with maybe a fruit juice during that period of time). My previous diet was not, I needed to eat every 1/2 hours our every hours, even with a liver that can handle quite a lot of caffeine.

Hope I will continue to be able to tolerate it like that (still eating a good amount sucrose and fruits for main calorie source).

Has anyone with a compromised gut tried this kind of rice?

Will keep you updated.

 

[FredSonoma]

I'm still doing research/experiments with fibers. I thought that I could not eat starch and other fibers without becoming very sick but I did an interesting discovery.
My gut doesn't like mushrooms, carrots, potatoes, normal rice or other starches, even very well cooked, with fat, etc.
It gives me a runny nose right after eating, inflammed lymph nodes, feeling depressed, hypertension, high adrenalin/cortisol (so anxiety), sometimes flu symptoms and endotoxins. Even with activated charcoal everyday I could not eat it.

The only "Peaty" fiber that I seemed to tolerate was bamboo shoots that is almost impossible to source here or very expensive.

I don't have access to good quality fruits or to fruits that I tolerate (as pectin-free as possible). I cannot drink too much liquids without becoming hypothyroid, so cannot live of orange juice or milk, and sucrose and things like that don't satisfy me, I need to eat a lot of it everytime (sometimes up to 400g a day!) or else I felt low blood sugar, fatigue, stress, etc, but it was too much and I was storing it in fat.
Too much saturated fat also seems to raise my serotonin and make me feel bad (runny nose just after, etc).

So, I've discovered thanks to @tyw that I can tolerate sticky/round short grain/sushi white rice (very slight runny nose afterwards but generally it is the same with milk). It doesn't really seem to give me endotoxin symptoms (for now).
It seems that it has a higher ratio of amylopectin to amylose than other starches so easily digestible.
It is also rich in minerals that I don't get with other foods that I tolerate (molybdenum, manganese) and rich in B vitamins (people still say that it is devoid of nutrients...).
I am satisfied with less calories with it for now (no need to eat more than 2500 kcal) and think that I will be able to loose a bit of fat... I will go back to school tomorrow and will see if it keeps me energized and satisfied for 4 hours straight (with maybe a fruit juice during that period of time). My previous diet was not, I needed to eat every 1/2 hours our every hours, even with a liver that can handle quite a lot of caffeine.

Hope I will continue to be able to tolerate it like that (still eating a good amount sucrose and fruits for main calorie source).

Has anyone with a compromised gut tried this kind of rice?

Will keep you updated.

Awesome to hear - maybe will try myself.

 

[tomisonbottom]

I'm still doing research/experiments with fibers. I thought that I could not eat starch and other fibers without becoming very sick but I did an interesting discovery.
My gut doesn't like mushrooms, carrots, potatoes, normal rice or other starches, even very well cooked, with fat, etc.
It gives me a runny nose right after eating, inflammed lymph nodes, feeling depressed, hypertension, high adrenalin/cortisol (so anxiety), sometimes flu symptoms and endotoxins. Even with activated charcoal everyday I could not eat it.

The only "Peaty" fiber that I seemed to tolerate was bamboo shoots that is almost impossible to source here or very expensive.

I don't have access to good quality fruits or to fruits that I tolerate (as pectin-free as possible). I cannot drink too much liquids without becoming hypothyroid, so cannot live of orange juice or milk, and sucrose and things like that don't satisfy me, I need to eat a lot of it everytime (sometimes up to 400g a day!) or else I felt low blood sugar, fatigue, stress, etc, but it was too much and I was storing it in fat.
Too much saturated fat also seems to raise my serotonin and make me feel bad (runny nose just after, etc).

So, I've discovered thanks to @tyw that I can tolerate sticky/round short grain/sushi white rice (very slight runny nose afterwards but generally it is the same with milk). It doesn't really seem to give me endotoxin symptoms (for now).
It seems that it has a higher ratio of amylopectin to amylose than other starches so easily digestible.
It is also rich in minerals that I don't get with other foods that I tolerate (molybdenum, manganese) and rich in B vitamins (people still say that it is devoid of nutrients...).
I am satisfied with less calories with it for now (no need to eat more than 2500 kcal) and think that I will be able to loose a bit of fat... I will go back to school tomorrow and will see if it keeps me energized and satisfied for 4 hours straight (with maybe a fruit juice during that period of time). My previous diet was not, I needed to eat every 1/2 hours our every hours, even with a liver that can handle quite a lot of caffeine.

Hope I will continue to be able to tolerate it like that (still eating a good amount sucrose and fruits for main calorie source).

Has anyone with a compromised gut tried this kind of rice?

Will keep you updated.

How is it going with the rice?

 

[DaveFoster]

I can't find a source, but I do believe that adrenaline antagonizes serotonin. Elevated levels of adrenaline appear in hypothyroidism due to lowered blood sugar.