What Helps Reduce Smoking ?

[S-VV]

Maybe switch to flavoured e cigs first, eliminating the MAOI compounds in tobacco, then from flavour to flavourless, and then taper off the nicotine

 

[Frankdee20]

Not an overly effective strategy but it helps. Try implementing a ritual to replace smoking. Such as making tea or coffee instead every time you feel a craving. The habit or daily ritual of smoking is almost as addictive as the nicotine itself. Smoking provides a constant activity, something to do throughout your day. When you stop smoking suddenly many parts of your day just feel empty. Try your best to fill them with something.

The problem with that is making morning coffee, and drinking it usually comes with a smoke or two. LOL.

 

[Frankdee20]

Maybe switch to flavoured e cigs first, eliminating the MAOI compounds in tobacco, then from flavour to flavourless, and then taper off the nicotine

So is vaping safe you think ? All those cases of damage came from Vitamin E acetate you think ? This sounds stupid because smoking is bad for you anyway, but it wont kill me overnight LOL

 

[Frankdee20]

You could look into buspirone. It could help with concurrent anxiety as well.

Effect of Buspirone on Withdrawal Symptoms Associated With Smoking Cessation - PubMed

Buspirone is cool because it is mostly a 5ht1A drug, but forget if it blocks or activates the post or pre synaptic side ?

 

[aguineapig]

Buspirone is cool because it is mostly a 5ht1A drug, but forget if it blocks or activates the post or pre synaptic side ?

Post, I think?

Antidepressant-like effects of buspirone mediated by the 5-HT1A post-synaptic receptors in the learned helplessness paradigm - ScienceDirect

There are also studies in rats showing massive increases in Dopamine and Noradrenaline within a few hours of administration. With correct dosing I think it can be super interesting. I am just starting to titrate on to it, running into as little insomnia so I am only doing a morning dose at the moment.

Also, look into nasal snuff. It can taper you off cigarettes. Quitters who use snus often end up more addicted to the snus, which almost never happens with nasal snuff. It's like switching coffee out for black tea. Kind of close, but not the same, which helps the taper down.

 

[Frankdee20]

Post, I think?

Antidepressant-like effects of buspirone mediated by the 5-HT1A post-synaptic receptors in the learned helplessness paradigm - ScienceDirect

There are also studies in rats showing massive increases in Dopamine and Noradrenaline within a few hours of administration. With correct dosing I think it can be super interesting. I am just starting to titrate on to it, running into as little insomnia so I am only doing a morning dose at the moment.

Also, look into nasal snuff. It can taper you off cigarettes. Quitters who use snus often end up more addicted to the snus, which almost never happens with nasal snuff. It's like switching coffee out for black tea. Kind of close, but not the same, which helps the taper down.

What type of nasal nicotine products specifically ?

 

[Frankdee20]

Nevermind, I see the products you mean.

 

[LuMonty]

@Frankdee20 If it helps, I vape and haven't had any of the hyped up issues. The reports I'm assuming you read (thanks hyperreactive news media) were vitamin E which re-forms in the lungs basically causing pneumonia and the other cases were supposedly-THC from China. Never heard what the stuff actually was. Regardless, I think cold turkey is a bad idea bc you're obviously using cigs for a reason. It's easier said than done, but figuring out why you're "medicating" is the first order of business. Nicotine is an aromatase inhibitor (amongst other things, let alone other compounds in tobacco) as one example. So maybe not even vaping but a nicotine patch or lozenge may give you clues as to if and what they're helping. I don't have any good ideas for other tobacco compounds. If you've already tried some of these ideas, don't mind me.

 

[aguineapig]

Did you catch this thread in started recently?

Fascinating Study On Nicotine & GABA

Given that you've nailed down that GABA is a linchpin issue for you, I would be looking into harm reduced tobacco or pharma nicotine options and experiment with those. Stopping entirely should only be done when you are ready both mentally and physically/metabolically.

In my opinion the stuff that entails telling yourself you really actually hate it and don't even like it at all (nope not even a bit, it stinks and something something, expensive) is just as distorted as the pure apologists for tobacco for whom it can do no wrong.

Every aspect that is having social/monetary/health impacts can be diminished via harm reduction, while getting you off the most addictive delivery mechanism, in the mean time you can continue to work on your health and binge drinking problem, and stop totally when/if you get there and when/if that's your desire.

 

[Kingpinguin]

I am not a heavy smoker, and will often take a few drags and throw the rest away. I average about 7-9 a day, American Spirits mostly. If I am binge drinking, then obviosly more. It has only been about 2-3 years now since I started, and I am 39. I do not want to Vape and occasionally smoke, because one cannot know how much Nicotine they're consuming. What is my best bet here, Bupropion ? That can cause bad insomnia and anxiety though. Is this a low Dopamine issue ? I just like the ritual of lighting it, and the taste, and inhaling smoke.

just stopping. If you cant stop then you dont want to stop enough. I was a heavy smoker. The fact that you want to stop is going to be the thing that eventually makes you stop. Do you enjoy it? Does it taste good? Do you like how you smell afterwards. Or how your lungs feel after? Those things was the things that made me able to quit eventually without any help. First I wanted to stop because I felt it was bad and dangerous. Then eventually it just didnt taste as good anymore. Then it started bothering me how it smelled and how it sorta sticks on you. Smoke sticks on your face, skin, hair. And then you feel it in your lungs and saliva you gurgle it up and spit it out. Its a diagusting habit. And it took me years to realize why i actually hate smoking and almost now disrespect smokert even though I did enjoy it once. I dont understand it anymore. It cost people money, it taste bad, they smell bad, they are annoying to other people usually since the smell or smoke blows into the face of someone who doesnt enjoy it. The person is not showing respect neither to themselves (their bodies, lungs) or other people around them. Just quit dude. Funmy thing is that I can still enjoy a smoke when Im drunk. And next day I wake up and still think its disgusting. You have to realize its gross. You’re 39. Im only 27. I started when I was 13. Aren’t you supposed to already have stopped smoking at your age? Hehe

ps like to add as long as you drink I really don’t believe you are going to be able to stop smoking. Stop drinking first. You loose your sense when you drink so smoking is always gonna sound like a good idea at the time when drinking. You are not in control when you drink.

danny roddy podcast with haidut episode 15 i think it was talks quickly about opiate treatments which included ways to combat alcohol and I believe it works for smoking aswell.

 

[aguineapig]

just stopping. If you cant stop then you dont want to stop enough. I was a heavy smoker. The fact that you want to stop is going to be the thing that eventually makes you stop. Do you enjoy it? Does it taste good? Do you like how you smell afterwards. Or how your lungs feel after? Those things was the things that made me able to quit eventually without any help. First I wanted to stop because I felt it was bad and dangerous. Then eventually it just didnt taste as good anymore. Then it started bothering me how it smelled and how it sorta sticks on you. Smoke sticks on your face, skin, hair. And then you feel it in your lungs and saliva you gurgle it up and spit it out. Its a diagusting habit. And it took me years to realize why i actually hate smoking and almost now disrespect smokert even though I did enjoy it once. I dont understand it anymore. It cost people money, it taste bad, they smell bad, they are annoying to other people usually since the smell or smoke blows into the face of someone who doesnt enjoy it. The person is not showing respect neither to themselves (their bodies, lungs) or other people around them. Just quit dude. Funmy thing is that I can still enjoy a smoke when Im drunk. And next day I wake up and still think its disgusting. You have to realize its gross. You’re 39. Im only 27. I started when I was 13. Aren’t you supposed to already have stopped smoking at your age? Hehe

ps like to add as long as you drink I really don’t believe you are going to be able to stop smoking. Stop drinking first. You loose your sense when you drink so smoking is always gonna sound like a good idea at the time when drinking. You are not in control when you drink.

danny roddy podcast with haidut episode 15 i think it was talks quickly about opiate treatments which included ways to combat alcohol and I believe it works for smoking aswell.

What sort of health problems were you dealing with at the time you quit? Was smoking part of managing any mental illness?

 

[Constatine]

The problem with that is making morning coffee, and drinking it usually comes with a smoke or two. LOL.

Lol that's quite the problem. Intermittent fasting can build discipline and improve dopaminergic function to help prevent addictive behaviors. That's partially why fasting is used in so many religious practices such as the Ramadan.

 

[Frankdee20]

just stopping. If you cant stop then you dont want to stop enough. I was a heavy smoker. The fact that you want to stop is going to be the thing that eventually makes you stop. Do you enjoy it? Does it taste good? Do you like how you smell afterwards. Or how your lungs feel after? Those things was the things that made me able to quit eventually without any help. First I wanted to stop because I felt it was bad and dangerous. Then eventually it just didnt taste as good anymore. Then it started bothering me how it smelled and how it sorta sticks on you. Smoke sticks on your face, skin, hair. And then you feel it in your lungs and saliva you gurgle it up and spit it out. Its a diagusting habit. And it took me years to realize why i actually hate smoking and almost now disrespect smokert even though I did enjoy it once. I dont understand it anymore. It cost people money, it taste bad, they smell bad, they are annoying to other people usually since the smell or smoke blows into the face of someone who doesnt enjoy it. The person is not showing respect neither to themselves (their bodies, lungs) or other people around them. Just quit dude. Funmy thing is that I can still enjoy a smoke when Im drunk. And next day I wake up and still think its disgusting. You have to realize its gross. You’re 39. Im only 27. I started when I was 13. Aren’t you supposed to already have stopped smoking at your age? Hehe

ps like to add as long as you drink I really don’t believe you are going to be able to stop smoking. Stop drinking first. You loose your sense when you drink so smoking is always gonna sound like a good idea at the time when drinking. You are not in control when you drink.

danny roddy podcast with haidut episode 15 i think it was talks quickly about opiate treatments which included ways to combat alcohol and I believe it works for smoking aswell.

It’s all related to binge drinking.... Nobody can ever figure this out, nobody knows the cause driving it, not even God. Stop drinking, and I stop smoking

 

[mipp]

I smoked for over 10 years then quit cold turkey and was free from this addiction for another 12 years... until last year when out of the blue I stared thinking about it again obsessively. Tried nicotine gum which didn't have much of an effect, tried smoking pipe, eventually smoked a cigarette. I relapsed, currently at 2-4 cigs a day which is max for now because my upper respiratory tract hates it.
Why do I suddenly crave cigarettes so much, after so many years when it didn't cross my mind once? My current theory is that high carb diet that has something to do with it. I low carbed for many years then switched to high carb a couple years ago. Carbs affect my motivation, self-control and attitude. Maybe sugar really is a drug after all. I also noticed that smoking can cause a sudden drop in blood glucose (verified this with a glucometer). This was a revelation because it explains certain events and habits I had when I was a regular smoker. Tobacco was probably messing with my blood glucose regulation for years. When I have a large meal with plenty of carbs I feel more tempted to smoke. Smoking causes bg to drop rapidly. This causes stress, and smoking also adds pleasant stimulation and cognitive enhancement (noradrenaline, dopamine?) which wears off after a while and I'm left with baseline or hypo glucose level, which makes me want to eat more carbs, which makes me want to smoke to mitigate the sugar-induced lethargy and fogginess (aka "lowered stress"). A vicious circle.
Alcohol is the opposite. I used to enjoy it during my low-carb years, small doses worked nicely as a relaxant although I never managed to get addicted. Now on high-carb I don't enjoy alcohol much. It works a little bit like sugars, it's a depressant and definitely not what my system needs. Since I picked up smoking I dont think I've had a single drink. Alcohol and cigarettes complement each other as a depressant and stimulant and I feel tempted to try it although the combined glucose-lowering effect would probably be dangerous at my current sensitivity.
For now it's an enjoabyle experiment, although I plan to make some changes soon because I don't want to smoke a pack a day like I used to.

 

[aguineapig]

Have you tried cypro or anything else specific to the 5ht2a receptors?

For almost my entire tobacco career I used cypro alongside it. Maybe this is part of why I didn't get significantly addicted despite fairly regularly ingesting enough to make me physically ill.

Inverse agonists of the 5-HT2A receptor reduce nicotine withdrawal signs in rats - ScienceDirect

Maybe worth a try. I'm having some interesting effects from a combination of upward titrating buspar and 1mg of cypro so it was on the mind.

 

[SonOfEurope]

Really hard to quit cold turkey unless you're one of those very casual smokers.

I almost got hooked at 22 years old... Maybe the SSRI they had me on made me crave a dopaminergic substance, so every time I felt the urge I did push-ups instead... I only smoked 4-5 months less than 5 a day but I did fully quit.

29 now, after not smoking frequently in years a single Dunhill or Marlboro red is enough to buzz me out.

 

[SonOfEurope]

With my testosterone at 580 and E2 at 16 I'm on the androgenic side of the spectrum.

Keeping an eye on estrogen's mediator (prolactin) is good, youre also not going crave as hard if you're under the Sun in summer vs locked up because of Cough-it 19 in Dark winter days.

 

[SonOfEurope]

^
You read that right

Cough-it 19.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Has anyone else noticed that they feel disgusting after quitting? Even years later? When i quit my face and body became so bloated and still is at times and i often find myself just feeling gross or icky, i feel like ive ****88 up my circulation alot, it feels like my face doesnt get alot of blood flow so it feels like it droops and almost looks old and worn out, i never felt like i did after quitting then i ever did in my life, just felt super estrogen dominant and so fatigued as if i really poisoned my system, i even gained a bit of fat around the abdomen when i effortlessly had a chisled 6 pack my whole life, i still do but theres a bit of fat shrouding it, so i know smoking really ***** up your circulation, im looking for ways to undo the damage, and bring life back into my face and flush all the ***t out of my body that i loaded in, its been almost 2 years id say 1.5, i know that smoking introduces alot of heavy metals in the system etc. All i know is i never looked more ****88 up in my life then when i quit, looked like it put so many years on my face, but now things are somewhat levelling out, but it felt like i just completely destroyed my dopamine system and after quitting i feel this longterm elvetation of estrogenic/serotonergic symptoms,

Id imagine theres a huge toxin load in the body that persists for years causing elevated estrogen and serotonin, i smoked to experiment, with its aromatase inhibiting effect, what i noticed is it definetely feels androgenic at first, but it eventually feels like it backfires big time by loading in estrogenic substances into your body, and no matter how androgenic tobacco is, its nothing that caffeine or pregnenolone of vitamin E cant do,

When i quit i just said **** it i dont wanna do this anymore i don't want my face and body to look all ****88 up so i just quit cold turkey, large amounts of sugar and progesterone were helpful in quitting.

My guess is when you quit smoking your removing the aromatase inhibition from tobacco so you're now feeling the full effects of all the toxic chemicals you've loaded into your body where as the aromatase inhibition from nicotine was having a slightly offsetting effect against the toxins beint taken in, sort of like drinking poison but with the antidote mixed in.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this or can relate?

I just know that when i quit i felt so grossly hypothyroid and i just felt disgusting, i just felt like i looked gross and felt bloated, and didnt feel good in my own skin, definetely didn't feel the same as i did before smoking can anyone relate?

 

[Stilgar]

After I quit (smoked for about four years 5-15 a day), I did not feel miraculously better. In fact, felt worse generally and did so for many months. My lungs felt better, but my gut was a mess. Smoking was moving my gut so well. I still miss it for that effect sometimes, nothing comes close for me, but don't feel any physical urge to smoke tobacco now. It's just a memory of relief.

But the conviction to give up sustained and I'm nicotine free for a year now. My technique was to taper down for a few months - sometimes I would smoke a half cigarette by using half a paper. This would give me a hit, without as much nicotine. When I finally gave up, I didn't really have the nicotine withdrawal because I had tapered so much. I also used weed as freely as I wanted, since weed helped me to sleep. I moved onto mostly rice based meals with lots and lots of gelatin broths. I gave up around the time I started use broth every day. I think it lowered my need for nicotine. I smoke weed still, but now just a half joint at bedtime and I'm moving onto vaping soon. It's a less addictive vice.