Smoking And Thyroid Function

denise

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Oct 18, 2013
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Back in August I created a thread about how after I quit smoking (in April of this year) my digestion went to hell and my thyroid tanked. Fortunately, haidut had just come out with his TyroMix, so I started on that and a few of the most distressing symptoms vanished.

Then I found this old thread that questioned how dangerous smoking truly is, and I read the book that was mentioned. I expected that by the end I've have some doubts, but as it happened, by the end I had no doubts. I was totally convinced that the smoking scare is one huge smokescreen. So I did what any reasonable person would do, and went out to buy some tobacco...

As an aside: I've only ever smoked American Spirits, but this time I decided to go even further in my quest for clean tobacco and roll them myself. I currently buy the pouch of organic American Spirit tobacco, and use a roller with RAW tips and organic help rolling papers to roll them myself. They are far and away the best cigarettes I've ever had. About a month ago, I bought a pack of my former everyday smokes (the light blue pack) while I was traveling, and they were pretty terrible, to be honest. I've also bought some whole tobacco leaves to try shredding my own, but so far I haven't been able to create a smoke I love. And the AS pouch is so handy that I just keep buying that. (Pricewise, it works out to about $5.20 per pack, which is a lot cheaper than buying the premade organic ones.)

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I noticed that I was having strange symptoms that I finally realized were from too much thyroid. I've been testing and tracking ever since, and it appears that I no longer need the TyroMix at all. Smoking just 3-5 cigarettes a day has restored my thyroid function.

I should say that I am glad I quit in April. I learned a lot of things about my own physiology, and I was able to stop being controlled by the nicotine (Allen Carr's books are brilliant for this). Now it feels like, although I want to smoke, I don't have that same driving, addicted, need. I feel like I'm working with the tobacco now rather than against it, if that makes any sense. Now if only I could get rid of the 15 pounds I gained after quitting, I'd be golden...

So anyway, I thought I'd throw this out there. I'm not arguing that there are no downsides to using tobacco, but it does have its uses.
 
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that's fascinating. I get huge benefits in mood from a cigar sometimes. I think tobacco can be amazing. I am really interested hearing your thyroid story.

I find no benefit in exogenous thyroid whether extract or T3/T4. No benefit at all. But a little tobacco seems beneficial, although I can't point to a direct benefit as you have with your experience.
 

RutgerD

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Oct 26, 2016
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I quit smoking a year ago, and it gave me constipation really bad. Also, even before I read Ray Peat, I had huge cravings for icecream during cessation. I have to tell you I never felt better when I was a smoker and right now I'm in the process of getting there without the need for nicotine. Today on reddit there was an article about how smoking causes 150 mutations in the long per year on an average of 20 cigs per day. I do believe it is better to be a non smoker.
 
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denise

denise

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To give just a bit more background: I had a subtotal thyroidectomy in August 2015. Before that, my TSH was usually 1.4 or so, but I had a HUGE goiter that was growing behind my sternum and threatening to kill me. Six months after the surgery, my TSH was 3.8. Then I quit smoking, and when I checked TSH in September, it had jumped up to 6.2. I should get it checked again to see what it's doing now. Clearly smoking isn't a 1:1 surrogate for thyroid for me (given that my TSH was still 3.8 when I was smoking half a pack per day in the spring), but I'm fascinated by the fact that it is a mimetic, somehow.

I quit smoking a year ago, and it gave me constipation really bad. Also, even before I read Ray Peat, I had huge cravings for icecream during cessation. I have to tell you I never felt better when I was a smoker and right now I'm in the process of getting there without the need for nicotine. Today on reddit there was an article about how smoking causes 150 mutations in the long per year on an average of 20 cigs per day. I do believe it is better to be a non smoker.
How interesting. When I quit I craved ice cream like crazy for about 2 months. I wonder why?

You may be right that being a nonsmoker is better, but I'd still strongly encourage you to read that book I mentioned above. If nothing else, it will change the way you read scientific studies. The main takeaway: Question everything.
 

RutgerD

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How interesting. When I quit I craved ice cream like crazy for about 2 months. I wonder why?

You may be right that being a nonsmoker is better, but I'd still strongly encourage you to read that book I mentioned above. If nothing else, it will change the way you read scientific studies. The main takeaway: Question everything.
I've read through the other threads a bit, and it certainly is an interesting topic! If someone benefits hugely from smoking (mood/digestion etc) then why not, as its better for them to be a smoker. I am interested in getting there with doing less damage (if any). When I smoke something now I get a headache, so it's not worth it anymore.
 
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member 2106

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I've always found it odd that some of the happiest people I've known, and some of the longest-lived, were smokers. I seem to recall a study about the incredible longevity on a small Greek island, and it turned out most of them smoked. Interesting correlation.
 
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many or most of the 100 or older people smoked. Some smoked into their low 100s. Doesn't mean much, but it is interesting.
 

Diokine

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Good timing on this thread, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks since I've noticed some serious interplay between nicotine and thyroid function. I started smoking much more regularly a few months ago, when I was under a lot of stress. During these times I also got sick with a virus which is still mucking things up. Nicotine always felt pretty good to me, it did something to my nerves that felt very agreeable and it improved my bowels. I did notice problems with my thyroid though, that I became less responsive to exogenous thyroid hormone and my overall thyroid utilization went down (lower temps and pulse.) I would also get recurring bouts of thyroid inflammation and sore throats. I had feelings of hyperthyroidism a lot of the time also, and had a blood test that indicated my TSH was essentially zero.

In order to gain some understanding about what I was feeling, I tried to look at how the thyroid tissue is structured and how it reacts to different messengers. This brought me to the topic of actin, which come to find out is an incredibly important complex of proteins. Special types of actin are produced in the thyroid (and many other tissues) and also the liver. Transthyretin is a protein that is similar, and it transports thyroid hormone along with retinol. Smoking cigarettes chronically drastically changes the encoding for the formation of different types of actin. Transthyretin is generally increased in this state. The transport of these different types of proteins is also changed along with the ratios of different lipids, etc. My thoughts on how this effect thyroid - I think you have a state where there is either low or mid grade bouts of inflammation in thyroid, which can increase the amount of circulating thyroid hormone. Upregulation of transthyretin, along with increased lipid synthesis results in greater transport of thyroid hormone to the cell. Thyroid hormone binds to cellular membranes, and it exerts some effects there, but it also binds to nuclear "receptors" which effect metabolism to a greater degree. So there can be a tendency towards exaggeration of the membrane bound effects and a deficiency of nuclear bound effects, depending on overall health.

I think that Carr is right in saying that the feeling that smokers get after a cigarette is the feeling that non-smokers have all the time. Initially, the nicotine changes the tone of the nerves, and can increase signal conduction to things like the intestines. This feels good, so we keep doing it. With enough exposure though, things really get pushed out of balance, receptor density changes, and you are in a state requiring nicotine. The constant exposure to CO and other metabolic poisons changes a lot of things, and bottom line is probably best avoided.
 

RutgerD

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Good timing on this thread, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks since I've noticed some serious interplay between nicotine and thyroid function. I started smoking much more regularly a few months ago, when I was under a lot of stress. During these times I also got sick with a virus which is still mucking things up. Nicotine always felt pretty good to me, it did something to my nerves that felt very agreeable and it improved my bowels. I did notice problems with my thyroid though, that I became less responsive to exogenous thyroid hormone and my overall thyroid utilization went down (lower temps and pulse.) I would also get recurring bouts of thyroid inflammation and sore throats. I had feelings of hyperthyroidism a lot of the time also, and had a blood test that indicated my TSH was essentially zero.

In order to gain some understanding about what I was feeling, I tried to look at how the thyroid tissue is structured and how it reacts to different messengers. This brought me to the topic of actin, which come to find out is an incredibly important complex of proteins. Special types of actin are produced in the thyroid (and many other tissues) and also the liver. Transthyretin is a protein that is similar, and it transports thyroid hormone along with retinol. Smoking cigarettes chronically drastically changes the encoding for the formation of different types of actin. Transthyretin is generally increased in this state. The transport of these different types of proteins is also changed along with the ratios of different lipids, etc. My thoughts on how this effect thyroid - I think you have a state where there is either low or mid grade bouts of inflammation in thyroid, which can increase the amount of circulating thyroid hormone. Upregulation of transthyretin, along with increased lipid synthesis results in greater transport of thyroid hormone to the cell. Thyroid hormone binds to cellular membranes, and it exerts some effects there, but it also binds to nuclear "receptors" which effect metabolism to a greater degree. So there can be a tendency towards exaggeration of the membrane bound effects and a deficiency of nuclear bound effects, depending on overall health.

I think that Carr is right in saying that the feeling that smokers get after a cigarette is the feeling that non-smokers have all the time. Initially, the nicotine changes the tone of the nerves, and can increase signal conduction to things like the intestines. This feels good, so we keep doing it. With enough exposure though, things really get pushed out of balance, receptor density changes, and you are in a state requiring nicotine. The constant exposure to CO and other metabolic poisons changes a lot of things, and bottom line is probably best avoided.
Great read and thanks for posting, so after a while of cessation the body restores function?
 

dookie

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Good timing on this thread, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks since I've noticed some serious interplay between nicotine and thyroid function. I started smoking much more regularly a few months ago, when I was under a lot of stress. During these times I also got sick with a virus which is still mucking things up. Nicotine always felt pretty good to me, it did something to my nerves that felt very agreeable and it improved my bowels. I did notice problems with my thyroid though, that I became less responsive to exogenous thyroid hormone and my overall thyroid utilization went down (lower temps and pulse.) I would also get recurring bouts of thyroid inflammation and sore throats. I had feelings of hyperthyroidism a lot of the time also, and had a blood test that indicated my TSH was essentially zero.

In order to gain some understanding about what I was feeling, I tried to look at how the thyroid tissue is structured and how it reacts to different messengers. This brought me to the topic of actin, which come to find out is an incredibly important complex of proteins. Special types of actin are produced in the thyroid (and many other tissues) and also the liver. Transthyretin is a protein that is similar, and it transports thyroid hormone along with retinol. Smoking cigarettes chronically drastically changes the encoding for the formation of different types of actin. Transthyretin is generally increased in this state. The transport of these different types of proteins is also changed along with the ratios of different lipids, etc. My thoughts on how this effect thyroid - I think you have a state where there is either low or mid grade bouts of inflammation in thyroid, which can increase the amount of circulating thyroid hormone. Upregulation of transthyretin, along with increased lipid synthesis results in greater transport of thyroid hormone to the cell. Thyroid hormone binds to cellular membranes, and it exerts some effects there, but it also binds to nuclear "receptors" which effect metabolism to a greater degree. So there can be a tendency towards exaggeration of the membrane bound effects and a deficiency of nuclear bound effects, depending on overall health.

I think that Carr is right in saying that the feeling that smokers get after a cigarette is the feeling that non-smokers have all the time. Initially, the nicotine changes the tone of the nerves, and can increase signal conduction to things like the intestines. This feels good, so we keep doing it. With enough exposure though, things really get pushed out of balance, receptor density changes, and you are in a state requiring nicotine. The constant exposure to CO and other metabolic poisons changes a lot of things, and bottom line is probably best avoided.

Still though, why is it that the (verified) longest living person the world used to smoke a few cigarettes per day -- is it just coincidental? Or is there something to it (smoking), which in small amounts can improve health and longevity?
 
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denise

denise

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Great read and thanks for posting, so after a while of cessation the body restores function?
I have a coworker who quit many years ago, and she says she's never been the same since. I've read many similar reports online of people who say it gets better (if you work at it--not just by letting time pass) but I recall reading of only a couple people who said they felt totally normal again (after a good year or more). Not very encouraging...
 
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denise

denise

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Good timing on this thread, I've been thinking about this for a few weeks since I've noticed some serious interplay between nicotine and thyroid function. I started smoking much more regularly a few months ago, when I was under a lot of stress. During these times I also got sick with a virus which is still mucking things up. Nicotine always felt pretty good to me, it did something to my nerves that felt very agreeable and it improved my bowels. I did notice problems with my thyroid though, that I became less responsive to exogenous thyroid hormone and my overall thyroid utilization went down (lower temps and pulse.) I would also get recurring bouts of thyroid inflammation and sore throats. I had feelings of hyperthyroidism a lot of the time also, and had a blood test that indicated my TSH was essentially zero.

In order to gain some understanding about what I was feeling, I tried to look at how the thyroid tissue is structured and how it reacts to different messengers. This brought me to the topic of actin, which come to find out is an incredibly important complex of proteins. Special types of actin are produced in the thyroid (and many other tissues) and also the liver. Transthyretin is a protein that is similar, and it transports thyroid hormone along with retinol. Smoking cigarettes chronically drastically changes the encoding for the formation of different types of actin. Transthyretin is generally increased in this state. The transport of these different types of proteins is also changed along with the ratios of different lipids, etc. My thoughts on how this effect thyroid - I think you have a state where there is either low or mid grade bouts of inflammation in thyroid, which can increase the amount of circulating thyroid hormone. Upregulation of transthyretin, along with increased lipid synthesis results in greater transport of thyroid hormone to the cell. Thyroid hormone binds to cellular membranes, and it exerts some effects there, but it also binds to nuclear "receptors" which effect metabolism to a greater degree. So there can be a tendency towards exaggeration of the membrane bound effects and a deficiency of nuclear bound effects, depending on overall health.

I think that Carr is right in saying that the feeling that smokers get after a cigarette is the feeling that non-smokers have all the time. Initially, the nicotine changes the tone of the nerves, and can increase signal conduction to things like the intestines. This feels good, so we keep doing it. With enough exposure though, things really get pushed out of balance, receptor density changes, and you are in a state requiring nicotine. The constant exposure to CO and other metabolic poisons changes a lot of things, and bottom line is probably best avoided.
Very interesting. Did you end up quitting again, or are you still smoking now? Do you have any good links to read about actins/transthyretin?

A frustrating thing about starting up again is that aside from feeling hyper, I felt no other return to normalcy. Granted, it's not like I felt great to begin with, but still. I thought at the very least I'd get rid of some of the weight I gained, but no dice.

Not really related, but as I mentioned, I gained 15 pounds, but what's weird is that I gained it only in my lower body--lower abdomen, hips, thighs. If you look at me sitting behind a table, you'd never guess I'd gained anything, but if I stand up, everything below the waist is much larger. I've never put on weight like this. Usually if I gain weight, I gain it evenly everywhere. It makes me wonder what's going on.

Another thing that concerns me, especially now that you mention the same thing, is that my throat has been swollen for quite a while, and it started after I started smoking again. If I hadn't had that surgery, I'd have blamed it on my goiter, but that's no longer there, so I suppose it must be the smoking. I should quit again for a couple weeks and see what happens.
 
T

tca300

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All my family and inlaws that have smoked most of their lives look way older for their age than their brothers and or sisters. Lots of extra wrinkles, and teeth look terrible, if they have any left lol. Maybe pure nicotine as a supplement wouldn't have those effects?
 

sladerunner69

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Back in August I created a thread about how after I quit smoking (in April of this year) my digestion went to hell and my thyroid tanked. Fortunately, haidut had just come out with his TyroMix, so I started on that and a few of the most distressing symptoms vanished.

Then I found this old thread that questioned how dangerous smoking truly is, and I read the book that was mentioned. I expected that by the end I've have some doubts, but as it happened, by the end I had no doubts. I was totally convinced that the smoking scare is one huge smokescreen. So I did what any reasonable person would do, and went out to buy some tobacco...

As an aside: I've only ever smoked American Spirits, but this time I decided to go even further in my quest for clean tobacco and roll them myself. I currently buy the pouch of organic American Spirit tobacco, and use a roller with RAW tips and organic help rolling papers to roll them myself. They are far and away the best cigarettes I've ever had. About a month ago, I bought a pack of my former everyday smokes (the light blue pack) while I was traveling, and they were pretty terrible, to be honest. I've also bought some whole tobacco leaves to try shredding my own, but so far I haven't been able to create a smoke I love. And the AS pouch is so handy that I just keep buying that. (Pricewise, it works out to about $5.20 per pack, which is a lot cheaper than buying the premade organic ones.)

Anyway, a couple weeks ago I noticed that I was having strange symptoms that I finally realized were from too much thyroid. I've been testing and tracking ever since, and it appears that I no longer need the TyroMix at all. Smoking just 3-5 cigarettes a day has restored my thyroid function.

I should say that I am glad I quit in April. I learned a lot of things about my own physiology, and I was able to stop being controlled by the nicotine (Allen Carr's books are brilliant for this). Now it feels like, although I want to smoke, I don't have that same driving, addicted, need. I feel like I'm working with the tobacco now rather than against it, if that makes any sense. Now if only I could get rid of the 15 pounds I gained after quitting, I'd be golden...

So anyway, I thought I'd throw this out there. I'm not arguing that there are no downsides to using tobacco, but it does have its uses.


Yeah there have been some discussions here and on the old peatarian forym about the meritable uses of tobacco. Ive had a relationship with anerican spirita myself in the quest for raising testosterone DHT and my take it that it has the following pros/cons:

+: empirical evidence shows smokers have increased thyroid, testisterone, DHT, aand maybe even dopamine

-: smoke from any source is estrogenic, estrogen effect likely negates testosterone increase. Cortisol increase. black particles cause permament damage to lungs. all this contributes to cancer risk.

In the end I reasonned that better routes existed to raise thyroid and testosterone. however tonacco use culturally and throughout world history makes a lot of sense to me now, a lot of famoys historical figures and thinkers and business men were tobbacco users.
 

zztr

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In terms of sourcing good tobacco the thing to do in America is pipe tobacco. It is dirt cheap in many US states by some oddity of the tax code and very clean and high quality. You can get a pound of top notch Virginia organic pipe tobacco for $45 if you look around.

Maybe once every two weeks I roll a cigarette from the pipe tobacco. I go through less than a pound a year. I use a little cigarette roller. It's easier and less pretentious than a pipe. You have to smoke it like a cigarillo. Maybe inhale a tiny bit at a time, but mostly mouth hits. I do not understand how people smoke the brand name gas station cigarettes. I've tried one every now and then and they're all disgusting and don't at all feel the same as good tobacco.

More often than smoking I'll just take a small pinch of pipe tobacco and chew on it for a few minutes and then spit it out. It's not like dipping or chewing tobacco where you have to spit constantly. Take just a few flakes. The small dose can do wonders if you feel like you need it. I'd suggest anyone try oral micro-doses of good tobacco to see if maybe it helps them.
 

Diokine

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I haven't entirely cut tobacco use out yet.

As far as information on actin/transthyretin, check links on google with specific keywords, ie actin nicotine, actin kidneys, actin thyroid, etc.

Let's say that in order for health to be good, metabolic processes need to be carried out correctly and efficiently. This requires proper assembly of proteins and other compounds that make up the physical structure of the cell. This structure in turn controls the rate of processes, their efficiency, and tailors energy production towards a unified goal. In order for this to happen, the electrical and physical characteristics of the environment have to be very specific. It is the job of the kidneys to make sure that this environment is as optimal as possible, as often as possible.

The nervous impulses that manage the kidneys are very subtle and easily disrupted. Chronic tobacco use is a major disruptor of these signals. Essentially, I think that chronic tobacco use reduces the efficiency or qualitative work of the kidneys, and this disrupts the environment throughout the entire body. This disrupted environment blocks proper use of thyroid hormone and glucose oxidation, and prevents cells from incorporating thyroid hormone. This will reduce the solubility of a lot of important steroids and other cell protective compounds. This disrupts the cellular environment further and will change the way proteins (ie structure) align themselves. You will start to get aggregation of protein clusters (amyloidosis) in extreme cases, which is extremely damaging to good health. I think that in cases similar to ours, there is a low grade amyloidosis especially in the tissue of the thyroid, lungs, and heart. Symptoms like sore throat I feel are connected to this. I also think that chronic tobacco users do not have good thyroid function even if their serum levels are reading high. My levels are high but I can tell you personally, proper thyroid utilization is essentially zero. I do not respond nearly at all to exogenous thyroid (I used to react very well to it) and it is much more difficult to keep my temps and pulse rate up.

Why do some people tolerate tobacco more than others? Genetic differences in the way proteins (actin, etc) are encoded is one reason. If an individual has genes encoding several different ways to make actin proteins, they are potentially set up to handle different stressors better.

Things I have noticed that help - Vitamin D, extremely important. Calcium, salt, sweating, breath work.
 

BenPatrick

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Jul 30, 2015
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Have you guys looked into Sweedish Snus? I started smoking on and off back when the peatarian forum brought it up. Noticed a great improvement in areas related to mood and digestion (skin was pretty darn clear as well), but eventually started noticing declining lung function. Felt like I couldn't breathe as deeply, which went away after a month or two off smoking.

After reviewing the pros and cons of nicotine/tabacco again, I felt like there could be some promise in smokeless tabacco. Not all forms are equal though. Check out the link below, it's got some good information on it.

About Snus | Snus Authority

Haven't had any complaints, other than its not as "normal" as smoking. Not something I do around others lol. That being said, I can typically keep my temps up and noticeable stress effects at bay with using a pouch, maybe 2-3x a day of 20mins per session.
 

DrJ

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Hey @denise, I had a similar experience with smoking related to thyroid. When my thyroid function was good as measured by temp and pulse, I had no desire to smoke. When it was bad, I had a strong desire to smoke. When having trouble keeping my thyroid function up, I was using TyroMax, but I think I have figured out how to get by without it, and it works EXTREMELY well, and it happens to be one of Peat's statements that I was ignoring.

He frequently says that calcium to phosphate ratio is very important. I hadn't really paid much attention to this, I just focused on getting calcium high since it's supposed to suppress PTH, and it seemed sometimes it would work, and sometimes it wouldn't with regards to thyroid function. I couldn't figure out why. It was because I wasn't paying attention to phosphorous intake. It is actually kind of hard to track this.

I was relying mainly on milk and cottage cheese for calcium and as basic food staples on a peat diet. But when I finally looked at it, milk has a calcium to phosphorous ratio (CtPR) of 1.3:1 which is good-ish, but milk won't buy you a lot of "margin" on the ratio. Cottage cheese was surprisingly about 0.95:1, so not so good! That explains why when I relied heavily on cottage cheese, my results weren't so good. But other cheeses have excellent CtPR, sometimes 2:1 and even 3:1. I didn't keep track of all of my sources, but I think parmesan is 3:1, and in general the harder cheeses have higher CtPR. I think ice cream must have a pretty high CtPR since I got good results from that, but haven't been able to find out an exact figure. In any case, although ice cream raised my temp, it made me fat because it is pretty high fat.

Importantly, muscle meats, grains, sodas, and a lot of prepared foods have very high phosphorous content, so you have to watch those to keep CtPR up! When I finally paid attention to this and drastically increased my intake of the hard cheeses while keeping high phosphorous foods low to increase my CtPR, WOW, my temp went up and stayed up! No thyroid needed. And I feel so awesome all the time! My digestion also improved incredibly, with one notable thing which @RutgerD might want to hear about, which is that you have to make sure you're consuming magnesium in proportion to calcium. For me at least 0.5g magnesium to 1g calcium, but better to get close to 1g magnesium to 1g calcium, or else you will get constipated. But, from my experience, keeping CtPR high and consuming magnesium in proportion to calcium has worked wonders.

As a side note, taking pregnenolone also reduces my desire to smoke, but probably due to its thyroid-promoting activity.

I found a table stating calcium to phosphorous ratio of various foods in a table at the very bottom of this page:

CALCIUM-PHOSPHORUS RATIO

You can see there that the broad category of "cheese" is close to 2:1, but some googling led me to find that there is a wide variance in cheese CtPR.

Hope that helps!
 

DrJ

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Very helpful @DrJ Is there s chart of ratios for cheese types?
I haven't been able to find a comprehensive chart or table for cheeses. I just google for "calcium phosphorous ratio <cheese type>" and see what I can find out...
 

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