Up To 75% Of Homosexual Behaviour May Be Acquired, Not Inherited

[lvysaur]

Let's be honest, I think a lot of gays would have no aversion to screwing women.

Most straights wouldn't screw men though.

A significant portion of "homosexuality" is just hypersexuality taken to its logical conclusion: If you have no gender preference, and are aroused by the simple act of sex alone, you'll be functionally homosexual because the portion of people looking for casual hookups at any given time skews heavily male.

 

[Brother John]

???


No, not better. There is nothing sacred. Not if we wish to move forward. Being able to study these things is along the same path of liberation as actual gay rights, they are not opposite.

Such Saturation, You nailed it. I totally agree. No more new or old sacred cows..
Thanks,
Brother John

 

[schultz]

Not sure who is correct, although the authors seem to differentiate between synthetic progestins and bioidentical progesterone in the text (Ethisterone is C21H28O2 and the text refers to C21H30O2)

The references in the study flip-flop back and forth between progestins and progesterone. I didn't look at all the references though.

 

[schultz]

Not sure who is correct, although the authors seem to differentiate between synthetic progestins and bioidentical progesterone in the text (Ethisterone is C21H28O2 and the text refers to C21H30O2)

I think there is an older drug called Lutocyclin, which is the Ethisterone, and a new drug also called Lutocyclin that is progesterone.

"LUTOCYCLIN with trademark number 72409 was lodged on 10/05/1938 and has a status of Removed - Not Renewed . The applicant/owner of the trademark is registered as Ciba-Geigy Limited. They used the trademark attorney firm SPRUSON & FERGUSON to file this trademark."

 

[sladerunner69]

Sexuality, like brain function, is one of the first things to wane if health is not optimal. For animals, it is usually the lack of food or inhospitable environment that can cause asexual behavior. Excessive sexuality can also be caused by stress, due to excess estrogen, since it prevents the normal state of satisfaction after a sexual experience.

Could you elaborate on how poor health and poor metabolism can cause both- a lack of sexuality and insatiable sexual desire? I am sure that poor health can cause low libido and sexual dysfunction- of course I have firsthand experience with fin. However this idea about excess estrogen causing intense sexual cravings and then even being the cause of sex addiction... how could that be?

Are these people in a state of health that has not deteriorated enough to hinder their reproductive systems from functioning, and so are seeking the (breif) dopamine respite from the act of sex, but never achieve homeostasis because their estrogen is too high?

Actually now that I have thought that through it makes sense to me. I bet that stress hormones don't actually benefit sexuality *physiologically* but the mental stress state created urges and cravings for some release from it- whether it be sex, alcohol or drug induced

 

[aguilaroja]

Not sure who is correct, although the authors seem to differentiate between synthetic progestins and bioidentical progesterone in the text (Ethisterone is C21H28O2 and the text refers to C21H30O2)

The references in the study flip-flop back and forth between progestins and progesterone. I didn't look at all the references though.

I’ll see if clarification can be gotten. It seems likely that (synthetic) progestin lutocylin (Ethisterone) was used.

The lutocylin was given to mothers in Copenhagen who gave birth between 1959 and 1961, specifically to prevent miscarriage. This was exactly the era when Ethisterone (C21H28O2) was prescribed for this purpose. Some other progestins were either just coming to market or not yet released

It is unlikely physicians were using natural (bio-identical) progesterone generally, let alone for the “miscarriage prevention” indication. Katrina Dalton did not publish about natural progesterone until around 1958. In that era, Dalton was discussing natural progesterone especially in relation to PMS. Even so, medical dogma in those days about limited “bioavailability” of natural progesterone, and the need to use oral synthetics, was fixed.

As @Koveras indicates, the recent article Reinisch cites the 1963 Danish Junager and Schleishner PDR as equating lutocylin (C21H28O2) with bioidentical progesterone (C21H30O2) . This is a 54 year old reference, probably too long ago to re-construct their reasoning. If it is an error, hopefully it will be corrected in the Reinisch paper.
- -
Prenatal Exposure to Progesterone May Influence Adult Sexual Orientation
“The 34 participants in the study were drawn from the Copenhagen Perinatal Cohort, which comprises information collected from virtually all children born between 1959 and 1961 at the university hospital in Copenhagen, Denmark. The 17 men and 17 women were selected because their mothers exclusively received the progesterone lutocyclin to prevent a miscarriage.”

Progestin-induced virilisation - Wikipedia
“Past use for prevention of miscarriage
In the 1940s, some studies suggested that progesterone could prevent threatened abortion and might prevent habitual abortion, but oral bioavailability of progesterone is low and injections of progesterone can be painful, so orally active progestins were tried beginning with ethisterone, followed by other progestins as they became available: northynodrel (Enovid) and norethisterone (Norlutin) in 1957, medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) in 1959, norethisterone acetate (Norlutate) in 1961, and dydrogesterone (Duphaston) in 1962.[13]”

http://www.kup.at/kup/pdf/10168.pdf

 

[haidut]

Could you elaborate on how poor health and poor metabolism can cause both- a lack of sexuality and insatiable sexual desire? I am sure that poor health can cause low libido and sexual dysfunction- of course I have firsthand experience with fin. However this idea about excess estrogen causing intense sexual cravings and then even being the cause of sex addiction... how could that be?

Are these people in a state of health that has not deteriorated enough to hinder their reproductive systems from functioning, and so are seeking the (breif) dopamine respite from the act of sex, but never achieve homeostasis because their estrogen is too high?

Actually now that I have thought that through it makes sense to me. I bet that stress hormones don't actually benefit sexuality *physiologically* but the mental stress state created urges and cravings for some release from it- whether it be sex, alcohol or drug induced

Estrogen is excitotoxic and also elevates prolactin and other pituitary hormones. Estrogen is known to cause insatiable and risky sexual behavior in females (no judgment passed whatsoever) so its effects on the brain and pituitary are likely the main reason for this. Ray mentioned it a few times as well.
Excessive sexuality in poor environment is also well-documented in both humans and animals, possibly as a way to ensure procreation when life expectancy is low. This is probably the main reasons why "education" programs in poor areas/countries to try and convince people to delay child bearing have failed miserably - i.e. people will procreate excessively (or at least behave along those lines) if they feel the environment does not portend good life ahead of them. I don't know if estrogen is always the main mechanism but it does seem very likely as people in such conditions often have weight issues and diabetes (not talking about starvation conditions as in 3rd world countries) and estrogen is the main driver in those along with cortisol. And they are both elevated under stress and unfavorable conditions in general.

 

[Integra]

When a gay acquaintance made me aware of the fact that her parents (biological mom + mom's partner) were gay, it definitely made me wonder, and posing that question felt like pointing out the elephant in the room:

Do gay parents tend to raise gay children?

While some might fire back, Who cares?, I'd still like to know because damn, I'm simply curious.

And about the question whether such studies should be made or not: any idiot can pick up a scientific study and translate its findings (acquired, learned) into language of power and domination: all of a sudden, sexuality is a CHOICE.

The problem lies in the moment when scientific writing shifts into the political domain. Just a minor re-translation of the terms used (acquired, learned) into more emotionally charged words, like the infamous CHOICE, is enough to stir the hearts of those who are upset by homosexuality.

If we were to look at each scientific paper--a scientific (or simply peer-approved) description of one aspect of the world, of what is--and criticize it as a political act, we need to consider other things beyond practical implications in the general sense.

As David Hume said, studying what is does not tell us what ought to be done about it. However, studying what is can help us manage the manifestations of something (should we wish to do so) and potentially understand its causes. That's it.

I have sympathy for those who are upset by homosexuality.
Upset perhaps because they can't deal with certain feelings.
Upset because they would lose a sense of their identity which I believe is, and I won't elaborate this point, not merely contextual and acquired, but more importantly in certain cases RELATIONAL in strict structural organizations of gender roles.

What I mean by relational is that some people were taught in Sunday school that this thing and that thing is a sin, and that that thing should never go into this thing, and then they see things that either disgust them, in which case their beliefs (and in turn their identity, via Jordan Peterson's work) is validated and all is well, or even worse: not only are these vile things not disgusting, but they kind of like it.

And if they like it, what does that mean? :)

Studying what is =/= Figuring out what needs to be done

The non-equal symbol should be replaced by a complicated, twisted, knotty, and multifaceted sign. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to untangle it. That's what science does.

 

[Koveras]

I’ll see if clarification can be gotten. It seems likely that (synthetic) progestin lutocylin (Ethisterone) was used.

The lutocylin was given to mothers in Copenhagen who gave birth between 1959 and 1961, specifically to prevent miscarriage. This was exactly the era when Ethisterone (C21H28O2) was prescribed for this purpose. Some other progestins were either just coming to market or not yet released

It is unlikely physicians were using natural (bio-identical) progesterone generally, let alone for the “miscarriage prevention” indication. Katrina Dalton did not publish about natural progesterone until around 1958. In that era, Dalton was discussing natural progesterone especially in relation to PMS. Even so, medical dogma in those days about limited “bioavailability” of natural progesterone, and the need to use oral synthetics, was fixed.

As @Koveras indicates, the recent article Reinisch cites the 1963 Danish Junager and Schleishner PDR as equating lutocylin (C21H28O2) with bioidentical progesterone (C21H30O2) . This is a 54 year old reference, probably too long ago to re-construct their reasoning. If it is an error, hopefully it will be corrected in the Reinisch paper.
- -
Prenatal Exposure to Progesterone May Influence Adult Sexual Orientation
“The 34 participants in the study were drawn from the Copenhagen Perinatal Cohort, which comprises information collected from virtually all children born between 1959 and 1961 at the university hospital in Copenhagen, Denmark. The 17 men and 17 women were selected because their mothers exclusively received the progesterone lutocyclin to prevent a miscarriage.”

Progestin-induced virilisation - Wikipedia
“Past use for prevention of miscarriage
In the 1940s, some studies suggested that progesterone could prevent threatened abortion and might prevent habitual abortion, but oral bioavailability of progesterone is low and injections of progesterone can be painful, so orally active progestins were tried beginning with ethisterone, followed by other progestins as they became available: northynodrel (Enovid) and norethisterone (Norlutin) in 1957, medroxyprogesterone acetate (Provera) in 1959, norethisterone acetate (Norlutate) in 1961, and dydrogesterone (Duphaston) in 1962.[13]”

http://www.kup.at/kup/pdf/10168.pdf

Thanks for the sleuthing

 

[bdawg]

Thanks for the sleuthing

I found this as well, positive correlation with saliva progesterone levels and 'homoerotic motivation' scores. Not sure what Rays thoughts are but I sure as hell won't be risking it

People who are more open to homosexuality have higher levels of 'social' hormones | Daily Mail Online

 

[stargazer1111]

I am posting this b/c I think it underscores the importance of environmental influences in sexual orientation, which even now is considered primarily inherited/genetic.

A study on male homosexual behavior

"...(1) Of the 50 subjects, only about 25% had interest in homosexual behavior prior to initial episode. (2) About 50% subjects indulged in homosexual behavior due to lack/fear of having heterosexual contact. (3) About 60% subjects believed that homosexual behavior carried relatively lower risk of acquiring STIs and 68% subjects have had unprotected contact. (4) About 70% subjects had only acquired this behavior and nearly 60% subjects were interested in heterosexual marriage and not interested in further homosexual behavior."

I have to comment on this because I have suspected this for a long time but have been afraid to say so because the LGBTQ community would probably try to have me lynched.

I believe I have a bacterial endotoxin issue and am unable to consume anything fermentable because of it. I have been eating carrots for the last few days and started experiencing the same problems I had while eating lots of starch last year. One of these is a manic-like state in which I become hypersexual and act like a bipolar person would in the manic state. It's very weird and I am not sure how to describe it. It actually began when I was in 4th grade before I had a sex drive. The mania led to binge-eating until I discovered porn and then it led to weird porn binges. After a few days of eating resistant starch or fiber, I seem to lose control and begin behaving in abnormal ways. It's almost like being possessed would feel if it were possible. I am not in control of my actions.

I have struggled with sexuality for a long time and have a weird theory surrounding it. I have homosexual feelings when I consume fermentable carbs. But, when I do a strict Peat diet without the carrot fiber, these feelings disappear and I am as straight as an arrow. The homosexual feelings are strictly sexual and are not romantic. I don't fall in love with men. My extremely controversial hypothesis is that these urges are a result of endotoxemia from pathogenic bacteria in the gut. I have seen some preliminary evidence that homosexual people have a greater incidence of digestive and intestinal disorders and wonder if it isn't a result of a bacterial dysbiosis. But, I would never ever say this to anyone in the scientific community because I would be branded as a homophobe or a closet gay or whatever (I am a graduate student studying biochemistry).

I just sat down and thought about it. From 2005-2007, I was eating tons of endotoxin-producing food and I was excessively into gay porn. I did an initial short period with zero carb and the gay interest totally disappeared. Then, I went back to eating garbage from 2008-2010, and the hypersexual gay thing came back. Then, I did the long 6 year ketogenic zero carb diet and the hypersexual gay feelings disappeared for the entire time. Then, a couple of months after reintroducing carbs in the form of "safe starch" as Paul Jaminet puts it, the hypersexual gay feelings returned. Switching to a Peat-inspired diet without any fiber at all made them disappear again only to return a few days after introducing carrot fiber. I had not really paid attention to the shifts until recently when I really began to see how abnormal my behavior is when I eat the wrong things.

When I eat fermentable food, I get severe gastric ulcer-like pain in the stomach and bowel pain that makes it difficult to function. Even carrots seem to do this. This pain and irritation follows the exact same trend that the homosexual feelings do.

This is pretty unnerving. But, it may be an important observation and it could lead to a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories regarding eugenics and depopulation that I really don't want to go down.

 

[stargazer1111]

By the way, I don't mean to say that homosexuality is abnormal. The abnormality in my behavior is the excessive porn binging and just overall hypersexuality.

And after reading some of the other posts here, I wonder if it isn't simply hypersexuality and not true homosexuality since I don't actually fall in love with men. Maybe the endotoxemia is causing such poor conditions in the body that it becomes hypersexual, sensing that my life may end shortly. My mind is officially blown!

 

[Such_Saturation]

Not sure what Rays thoughts are but I sure as hell won't be risking it

What are you afraid of

 

[Richiebogie]

That's great internal gazing @stargazer1111

What if you eat mostly soluble fibre from whole fruit? Eg bananas, mango, coconut, raspberries, dates, figs, prunes, paw paw and other melons...?

(Apples, pears and citrus may cause issues so avoid these in this analysis).

Ray Peat suggested the grated carrot sweeps everything out but he may be referring to just the small intestine. It could get fermented and absorbed in the large intestine. I don't believe it comes out whole!

 

[Such_Saturation]

Ray Peat suggested the grated carrot sweeps everything out but he may be referring to just the small intestine. It could get fermented and absorbed in the large intestine. I don't believe it comes out whole!

I have bits of carrot come out intact and still get gas from them. In fact I get more gas when I find carrot traces.

 

[Richiebogie]

I began thinking that maybe the carrot doesn't ferment (as it can survive underground and in the kitchen) and maybe stargazer's issue is beta carotene. He could test that by drinking juice of 1 carrot for a few days.

However such's experience suggests that some unwanted microbe in the bowel is eating the unabsorbed carrot.

Are these instances of carrot gas associated with any stress reactions or behaviours, @Such_Saturation ?

 

[stargazer1111]

I began thinking that maybe the carrot doesn't ferment (as it can survive underground and in the kitchen) and maybe stargazer's issue is beta carotene. He could test that by drinking juice of 1 carrot for a few days.

However such's experience suggests that some unwanted microbe in the bowel is eating the unabsorbed carrot.

Are these instances of carrot gas associated with any stress reactions or behaviours, @Such_Saturation ?

I don't think it's the beta carotene. I have the same weird problems when I eat potatoes, rice, and other fibrous vegetables.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I began thinking that maybe the carrot doesn't ferment (as it can survive underground and in the kitchen) and maybe stargazer's issue is beta carotene. He could test that by drinking juice of 1 carrot for a few days.

However such's experience suggests that some unwanted microbe in the bowel is eating the unabsorbed carrot.

Are these instances of carrot gas associated with any stress reactions or behaviours, @Such_Saturation ?

I get some discomfort and pain from the bloating. There's a paper around showing hydrogen production from eating carrots.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I understand the sensitivity some have to this topic
however, as it relates to any topic
when there are questions you can't ask, theories you can propose, subjects you can't talk about......
that's a problem.

the desire to study the genesis of a person's or group's attributes, preferences or behavior. Be them by choice or by chance does not constitute something nefarious.
Its called curiosity, its a good thing.

 

[Richiebogie]

How are baked sweet potatoes, @Such_Saturation and @stargazer1111 ? They are a huge part of the Pacific Islander diet, so I assume they are relatively safe, along with most ripe fruit.

Sounds like stargazer will avoid raw carrots. Do you avoid them Such, or do you feel their benefits outweigh the negatives?