Up To 75% Of Homosexual Behaviour May Be Acquired, Not Inherited

Joocyj

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All the gay people I have met clearly have psychological issues, and I live in a very gay part of the northeast.
 

Morgan

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This study is questionable and lacking in the context of a society that advocates an ideal lifestyle. There is no practical definition of "natural" since that is an idealistic concept and clearly subjective. Any form of unsafe sexual activity between either genders results in an obvious higher rate of STIs.

In the discussion of epigenetic or environmental "problems" look no further than excessive reproduction in a society that can not sustain it. It almost mimics the effects of excess estrogen on an individual, it is equally destructive to the integrity of a malnourished(both mentally and physically) society. The desire for intimacy is inherent; heterosexual couples usual partake in the use of contraception, and what kind of damage has birth control pills done to the health of women? It is then ironic when homosexuality is viewed by some as "unnatural" when unnatural contraception is in use.

In my own experience, being male, and feeling as though I can fall in love with either gender, it has always been my choice. It is usually men that are interested in me, likely due to an androgynous appearance or feminine disposition, yet nothing endogenous signifies this disposition; estrogen and stress hormones are low and controlled, androgens are healthy and progesterone is high. It is mindset and my choice to be as I am, and the most loving, romantic, and intimate relationship I've had was with another man.. he adored me.. Is experience an environmental influence? I suppose it is, and I have learned to find many people beautiful or attractive.

The treatment of homosexuality had lead to people with more unstable lives via not feeling, or being accepted. This could raise stress and likely result in risky behavior, and potentially destructive actions.. Outside of sexuality, the feeling of not being accepted would likely cause the same results.
 

tara

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All the gay people I have met clearly have psychological issues, and I live in a very gay part of the northeast.
And non-of your straight acquantances do? Would your Gay friends agree?

Actually, you'd have to be pretty tough to not get stressed by the way Gay people get treated. Gay oppression is a killer.
 
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haidut

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There is some kind of weird obsession with homosexuality on this board... Specifically with trying to show that it's unnatural or abnormal. What gives? I'm not sure what this sort of study is supposed to accomplish? Would you post something that shows that Jewish people are more likely to be autistic or that African Americans are more likely to be born with autoimmune conditions because their mothers smoked crack? No. You wouldn't. Perhaps posts that are "showing" that homosexuality is a choice or that homosexual people are the product of sickness (the study that was posted that hypothyroid women tend to have gay kids) aren't doing the gays any good. Idiots in the world don't need more reasons outside of Jesus to hate the gays. My god.

Did you read what I said in my post? I said that it underscores the role of environment vs. role of genetics. On this forum many people believe the interaction of the organism with its environment is all that matters, while at the same time we are being bombarded from everywhere with pro-genetics ads. The recent explosion of popularity of companies like 23AndMe shows that pro-genetics attitudes are doing rather well. It is not meant to somehow denigrade homosexual people. I am not endorsing the study above and just because we tend to discuss health related topics on the forum it does not mean the study above has to be taken in a health context - i.e. that being homosexual is somehow sign of bad health.
 
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XPlus

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We'd all be better off if others stopped telling us how we're supposed to go about checking the mail.
 

jaguar43

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I'm not convinced that homosexuality has much to do with genetics (how would a propensity to NOT procreate survive natural selection?), but prenatal hormones probably have something to do with it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296090/

In one of the interviews with Ray Peat, he said that it's the estrogenic components that are responsible for different sexual orientation using the examples of alligators and other animals expose to DDT and other estrogenic compounds. When the interviewer ask him what he thought about the lady gaga slogan on " I was born this way" he said that he believe so.
 

misery guts

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I've always thought that the homogeneity in what is deemed attractive makes the scope for environmental factors to be pretty low. Yes there are variances, but essentially everyone attracted to women would describe Angelina Jolie as at least fairly good looking. And a very unattractive person would likely experience similar consensus. I suspect we have the pattern recognition to discern attractiveness in both sexes and that if there isn't a master switch determining which pathway becomes action guiding for you, there's at least some genetic factor in how active either one is.
 

Kasper

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@haidut I'm gay myself, but I'm pretty sure homosexuality is not considered genetic or inherited by and scientist that does research in it. The theory is, at least the last research I've read about this, is that it is thought to be about a lack of testosterone in the mothers womb. I mean in the male case, which is much more researched.

So this is an environmental factor very early in life, but that environmental factors after birth would play any role, I really doubt that.

Do you think, that being gay could be "cured", in that sense? Research shows that, part of the male gay brain ( in gay male sheep, I believe), is structurally the same as a straight female brain. I doubt that environmental factors can change this structure after birth.
 
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@haidut I'm gay myself, but I'm pretty sure homosexuality is not considered genetic or inherited by and scientist that does research in it. The theory is, at least the last research I've read about this, is that it is thought to be about a lack of testosterone in the mothers womb. I mean in the male case, which is much more researched.

So this is an environmental factor very early in life, but that environmental factors after birth would play any role, I really doubt that.

Do you think, that being gay could be "cured", in that sense? Research shows that, part of the male gay brain ( in gay male sheep, I believe), is structurally the same as a straight female brain. I doubt that environmental factors can change this structure after birth.

Evidence is good, that it can be "cured" in some cases. At least if you consider cured living a heterosexual life for the rest of your life. The brain is remarkably plastic. Especially in areas of sexuality. People acquire all sorts of sexual tendencies through their adult life given the fact that sexual reward circuits fire more intensely than any other. Other than maybe certain drugs.
 

DaveFoster

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Evidence is good, that it can be "cured" in some cases. At least if you consider cured living a heterosexual life for the rest of your life. The brain is remarkably plastic. Especially in areas of sexuality. People acquire all sorts of sexual tendencies through their adult life given the fact that sexual reward circuits fire more intensely than any other. Other than maybe certain drugs.
Completely agree. While there exist developmental phases in humans, there's also a large degree of wiggle room, especially in young adulthood.
 

David Chung

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If gayness is genetic or epigenetic, when human beings are able to make changes to progenitors at a genetic or epigenetic level, we'd need to face few moral questions. For example, do we eradicate gayness in future sons and daughters, to have them avoid social persecution?

IMHO, general observations favor the view that a sexual orientation is genetic. For reproduction, each human being must recognize the reproductive organs, which in turn requires that each human being has a stored, inborn "image" of sexual organs. How would a male know to insert a penis into a vagina if the male could not recognize the vagina? This kind of consideration, of course, can also be extended to the behavioral domain, about gayness.

Assuming that such pieces of inborn sexual knowledge become expressed in clusters of cells (i.e., neurons), it is easy to see what would happen if some of these neuronal pathways are "cross-wired." For example, what would happen if a man's access to an internal image of a vagina is somehow switched with that of a penis ... or that one's behavioral program is switched?

In a given population, I suspect that we see various types of such cross-wirings. For example, in one type of cross-wiring, an individual believes that she/he is born of the "wrong" sex and seeks a transgender operation. In another type of cross wiring, we see individuals that want to maintain their sexual identity, but mate with the member of their own gender ... These considerations lead to the idea that there are different groups of cells that correspond to different aspect of sexual behavior, and the different behavioral patterns we see are different permutations of the wirings among these groups of cells.

Of course, neurons are plastic, but to a limited extent.
 
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haidut

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@haidut I'm gay myself, but I'm pretty sure homosexuality is not considered genetic or inherited by and scientist that does research in it. The theory is, at least the last research I've read about this, is that it is thought to be about a lack of testosterone in the mothers womb. I mean in the male case, which is much more researched.

So this is an environmental factor very early in life, but that environmental factors after birth would play any role, I really doubt that.

Do you think, that being gay could be "cured", in that sense? Research shows that, part of the male gay brain ( in gay male sheep, I believe), is structurally the same as a straight female brain. I doubt that environmental factors can change this structure after birth.

Well, I don't want to use the word "cured" as it implies homosexuality is a disease. I have seen cases (even in monkeys) that show adult males can be made to change behavior from heterosexual to almost exclusively homosexual. When combined with endocrince disruptors, the male animals started also acquiring female features. Not sure if they looked at the brain and how it changed due to these manipulations, but there are several animal models where homosexual behavior and some female phenotypes can be pretty reliably introduced at any time of the lifespan (including late adulthood) and maintained indefinitely. So, if this is possible then I don't see why the opposite wouldn't also be possible - changing homosexual preferences back to heterosexual. Whether this is desirable is up to the individual. I guess the danger many gay people see with this is that some sicko politician will use this medical possibility to institute forced "treatment" of gay people to be changed back to straight. I am definitely not supporting such actions, and my interests lie exclusively in learning what makes a certain person gay or straight and how that can be changed (in both directions, and if desired). For instance, due to the research into turning straight people gay, there are already technologies the military is working on that may be deployed on a mass scale to turn enemy soldiers gay.
Gay bomb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If this is indeed done, I think there is some value in knowing how to reverse the process for the people who were presumably turned gay against their will (on the battlefield).
So reversing endocrine disruptions is what I am interested in, but as usual there is always the potential of somebody with a political agenda taking knowledge and using it for their own personal benefit.
 

AmishMechanic

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Evidence is good, that it can be "cured" in some cases. At least if you consider cured living a heterosexual life for the rest of your life. The brain is remarkably plastic. Especially in areas of sexuality. People acquire all sorts of sexual tendencies through their adult life given the fact that sexual reward circuits fire more intensely than any other. Other than maybe certain drugs.

Completely agree. While there exist developmental phases in humans, there's also a large degree of wiggle room, especially in young adulthood.

Plastic indeed. I offer a good example.

A young man learned to only enjoy copulation with a fruit loop box. He's a grown man now and can NOT have regular intercourse with a woman or man. It is a true story that I learned from a fascinating psychiatrist who specialized in treating sexual dysfunctions.

Story goes that as a young boy, while sitting at the breakfast table his mom asked if he could get up to fetch more milk for everyone. He would have been happy to except that his penis was a bit engorged at that moment. He was wracked with anxiety but hid himself behind his cereal box of fruit loops (irony). It eased his anxiety around a sexually stimulating event. From then on, Fruit Loop boxes were his thing. I think he said the man was in his 40's now and has tried everything to become "normal". His brain wired comfort/anti-anxiety = sex + cereal box at a very early and impressionable age.

I have, to this day, never looked at a Fruit Loop Box of cereal the same since...
 
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haidut

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If gayness is genetic or epigenetic, when human beings are able to make changes to progenitors at a genetic or epigenetic level, we'd need to face few moral questions. For example, do we eradicate gayness in future sons and daughters, to have them avoid social persecution?

IMHO, general observations favor the view that a sexual orientation is genetic. For reproduction, each human being must recognize the reproductive organs, which in turn requires that each human being has a stored, inborn "image" of sexual organs. How would a male know to insert a penis into a vagina if the male could not recognize the vagina? This kind of consideration, of course, can also be extended to the behavioral domain, about gayness.

Assuming that such pieces of inborn sexual knowledge become expressed in clusters of cells (i.e., neurons), it is easy to see what would happen if some of these neuronal pathways are "cross-wired." For example, what would happen if a man's access to an internal image of a vagina is somehow switched with that of a penis ... or that one's behavioral program is switched?

In a given population, I suspect that we see various types of such cross-wirings. For example, in one type of cross-wiring, an individual believes that she/he is born of the "wrong" sex and seeks a transgender operation. In another type of cross wiring, we see individuals that want to maintain their sexual identity, but mate with the member of their own gender ... These considerations lead to the idea that there are different groups of cells that correspond to different aspect of sexual behavior, and the different behavioral patterns we see are different permutations of the wirings among these groups of cells.

Those are very good points. My take on it is that homosexuality in males will probably not generate much political action for forced "treatment". However if homosexuality in females became prevalent for some reason, we will likely see swift political action as this process would threaten everything we know about society. More unmarried/unsatisfied men has been conclusively been shown to lead to more violence and more homosexual females would mean even less interest in things like marriage. Most of politics is ultimately a rhetoric about access to sex (and its control) and accumulation of resources. There is much more to life than that, but as far as society and modern states are concerned that's pretty much it.
 
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haidut

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Plastic indeed. I offer a good example.

A young man learned to only enjoy copulation with a fruit loop box. He's a grown man now and can NOT have regular intercourse with a woman or man. It is a true story that I learned from a fascinating psychiatrist who specialized in treating sexual dysfunctions.

Story goes that as a young boy, while sitting at the breakfast table his mom asked if he could get up to fetch more milk for everyone. He would have been happy to except that his penis was a bit engorged at that moment. He was wracked with anxiety but hid himself behind his cereal box of fruit loops (irony). It eased his anxiety around a sexually stimulating event. From then on, Fruit Loop boxes were his thing. I think he said the man was in his 40's now and has tried everything to become "normal". His brain wired comfort/anti-anxiety = sex + cereal box at a very early and impressionable age.

I have, to this day, never looked at a Fruit Loop Box of cereal the same since...

Hhm, I wonder if American Pie got its idea for that scene from that story:): Maybe even its name...
 

AmishMechanic

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Hhm, I wonder if American Pie got its idea for that scene from that story:) Maybe even its name...
Right!? We just could not make this stuff up... He has a laundry list of "how people develop crazy sexual fettishes" stories. I think my husband and I had nightmares for a week. :eek::nailbiting:
 

Forsythia

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Thegiantness, this group looks at the human condition. Sexuality and sexual orientation are part of the human condition. These things can be discussed without involving emotions or morality or ethics. You are putting your emotions into this discussion and trying to shut the conversation down. What does that solve?
 

DaveFoster

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Story goes that as a young boy, while sitting at the breakfast table his mom asked if he could get up to fetch more milk for everyone. He would have been happy to except that his penis was a bit engorged at that moment. He was wracked with anxiety but hid himself behind his cereal box of fruit loops (irony). It eased his anxiety around a sexually stimulating event. From then on, Fruit Loop boxes were his thing. I think he said the man was in his 40's now and has tried everything to become "normal". His brain wired comfort/anti-anxiety = sex + cereal box at a very early and impressionable age.

I have, to this day, never looked at a Fruit Loop Box of cereal the same since...
Welcome to Ray Peat Erotica! Your only choice for food-based kinky stories.
 
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