Hypothyroidism in the mother may lead to gay offspring

haidut

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This is another study that touches upon the effects of specific condition or stress while the woman is pregnant on the future offspring's health and behaviour. I posted some time ago that hypothyroidism in the pregnant mother may lead to autism.
viewtopic.php?f=183&t=2315
Ray has said that it is usually some kind of "stressor" during pregnancy that causes autism. This makes perfect sense given that thyroid status is what determines resistance to stress and toxins.
This recent study now points to hypothyroidism as a potential cause of another phenomenon that has baffled science - the increasing rates of homosexuality in Western countries. While the study does not say in its title the that implicated condition is maternal hypothyroidism, the full article text makes it clear that it is. I suppose it would have been too politically incorrect to say it in the title...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620281/

"...The mothers who had pregnancy thyroid dysfunction (n=15) reported their diagnoses as either hypothyroidism, goiter or Hashimoto disease whereas three mothers could only recall the presence of a thyroid disorder. Among the mothers interviewed, only three reported medication use in pregnancy which were thyroid hormones."

"...For each group compared, there was a significant association between the history of thyroid dysfunction in pregnancy and same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity in the children born to these women (P<0.0001, by Fisher’s exact test). The association was also significant for each sex (P<0.0001, by Fisher’s exact test). In logistic regression analysis, no other factor has been found to influence same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity. Table 1 shows some of the main characteristics of the cases with overlapping conditions. Homophobic bullying, which targets children with same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity appeared to be a common problem (n=7; 58%). In Table 1, relevant data regarding children’s thyroid status was also provided."

"...In this study, a significant association between thyroid dysfunction in pregnancy and same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity in the offspring was found. Several implications may be derived from this finding. To the best of my knowledge, this study is the only one that explored this association with a focused objective and found positive results."

"...Also, a significant rate of children and adolescents with same-sex attraction may remain to be identified. First of all, same-sex interest may manifest later than the mean age we found in this population. Second, sexual behavior understandably may be kept private and secret. Third, as can be seen in Table I, most subjects were male children who assume a feminine role. Active or manly same-sex attraction was not a reason for referral."

"...All possible explanations of the findings will be based on thyroid dysfunction during pregnancy, as it is the most likely predictor of same-sex attraction in the majority of cases. Either present before pregnancy or developed afterwards, thyroid diseases may result in diminished supply of thyroid hormones which are crucial for optimal brain development. Developing brain areas, which will be responsible for determining heterosexual orientation remain undifferentiated without the influence of essential thyroid hormones. As the timing, duration, severity and type of insult during development determine the specific consequence,25 the characteristics of same-sex attraction (i.e., bisexual or entirely homosexual) in the offspring are expected to be shaped by these factors."

I would venture a guess that if this is indeed true it may be related to the effects of thyroid hormone on the synthesis of androgens and estrogens. I posted a study about that here and I strongly advise everybody to read it since it explains the effects of thyroid status on the entire steroid cascade.
viewtopic.php?f=245&t=8065
Hyperthyroid conditions are associated with 4-fold higher androgen synthesis and increased estrogen metabolism into estriol. Hypothyroidism was associated with reduced clearance of cortisol and aldosterone and presence of mostly estradiol as the estrogenic hormone. Thus, hyperthyroid mothers would provide a very androgen-centric developmental environment for the fetus, combined with reduced effects of cortisol, aldosterone and estrogen. On the other hand, hypothyroid mothers will, on average, provide a cortisolic and estrogenic environment, combined with a several-fold lower levels of androgen compared even to euthyroid mothers.
 

Hugh Johnson

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Now that is going to cause some ruckus if it becomes popular.

There is a trope, mostly coming from the late Roman Empire, that connects sexual depravity, especially homosexuality, with a collapsing society. I always assumed it was due to bigotry, but they might have been onto something.

I'm going to have to look into lead exposure on this.
 

Philomath

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I remember an Herb Doctor episode where Ray touched on sexual ambiguity as a result of a mothers hypothyroidism and excess serotonin. A caller asked him if that is what causes homosexuality- he never directly answered that question.
I would assume this means gay individuals are at greater risk of "becoming" hypothyroid themselves.
 

Fetch

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Would this explain homosexuality in other animals and insects as well? or do you think homosexuality in humans is more complicated then it is in other species.

I think the increasing rates of homosexuality probably have more to do with societal changes involving acceptance and visibility and also possibly the decline in religious influence.
 
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Philomath

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Fetch said:
post 113410I think the increasing rates of homosexuality probably have more to do with societal changes involving acceptance and visibility and also possibly the decline in religious influence.

I think because so many people hid or denied their homosexuality in previous generations, it's hard to tell whether the rates are increasing or staying at a constant.
 
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haidut

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Philomath said:
post 113405 I remember an Herb Doctor episode where Ray touched on sexual ambiguity as a result of a mothers hypothyroidism and excess serotonin. A caller asked him if that is what causes homosexuality- he never directly answered that question.
I would assume this means gay individuals are at greater risk of "becoming" hypothyroid themselves.

The study said that ADD and depression were the most common issues in those children:
"...Any thyroid problem was found to affect 4.9% of the entire population (n=790), whereas the rate was 1.8% for pregnancy thyroid problem. The most common principal diagnoses given to the children of mothers in this group were attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (n=14; 35%) and depression (n=10; 25%)."

It also said homosexual populations tend to have an increased incidence of "autoimmune" conditions:
"...Finally, failure to find significant results in male subjects may stem from methodology: both sexes are affected in the present study as might be expected. Finally, a recent study that reported increased rates of certain autoimmune diseases in homosexual individuals but no increased overall risk can best be explained with the mechanism presented in our study."

So, while not directly saying it the study hints at increased risk of hypothyroidism in children as well.
 
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answersfound

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Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?
 

juanitacarlos

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brumpfschmlog said:
post 113411
ttramone said:
post 113409 Oh cool. So there is an upside to hypothyroidism...
Right, you get to push in other guys' stools.

Ok. Interesting how your mind works. I'm female btw.

I don't think anal sex is somehow is exclusive to gay males. Lot's of heterosexual people do it. Would you have an issue if a straight male admitted he had anal sex with his wife?
 
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Philomath

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answersfound said:
post 113424 Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?
Now that is an interesting question
 
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haidut

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Fetch said:
post 113410 Would this explain homosexuality in other animals and insects as well? or do you think homosexuality in humans is more complicated then it is in other species.

I think the increasing rates of homosexuality probably have more to do with societal changes involving acceptance and visibility and also possibly the decline in religious influence.

Those possibilities have been foreseen and AFAIK controlled for in the studies that looked at the issue. Not saying they were foolproof, just that the scientists were aware of the social impact/changes and tried to account for it. Still, the increase in male homosexuality and ratio of girls/boys born in Western countries persists.
As far as the homosexuality in other species, I don't know but it is good possibility assuming homosexuality in animals exists. Just b/c a male animals humps another male does not make him gay. Depleting animals and humans of serotonin using the drug Fenclonine (pCPA) makes them act VERY gay - i.e. they hump everything and in the case of rats they hump even cats.
 
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juanitacarlos

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Philomath said:
post 113426
answersfound said:
post 113424 Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?
Now that is an interesting question

You could try turning that around and saying if you, or other people on the forum, getting any more hypothyroid, they will turn gay, act gay, feel gay etc. There should be a lot of gay people on this forum if this theory was remotely feasible, as there is a ton of hypothyroid people here. I'm pretty sure that's not happening.
 
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Hugh Johnson

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ttramone said:
post 113430
Philomath said:
post 113426
answersfound said:
post 113424 Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?
Now that is an interesting question

You could try turning that around and saying if you, or other people on the forum, getting any more hypothyroid, they will turn gay, act gay, feel gay etc. There should be a lot of gay people on this forum if this theory was remotely feasible, as there is a ton of hypothyroid people here. I'm pretty sure that's not happening.
Actually that is sort of true. I really don't think it is likely to change the sexual orientation, but hypothyroid people do seem gayer than most in my experience.
 
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haidut

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ttramone said:
post 113430
Philomath said:
post 113426
answersfound said:
post 113424 Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?
Now that is an interesting question

You could try turning that around and saying if you, or other people on the forum, getting any more hypothyroid, they will turn gay, act gay, feel gay etc. There should be a lot of gay people on this forum if this theory was remotely feasible, as there is a ton of hypothyroid people here. I'm pretty sure that's not happening.

The study was about the effects of maternal hypothyroidism on offspring sexual orientation. I did not see anything in there saying hypothyroid people are themselves more likely to be gay.
 
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Fetch

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I think homosexuality is fairly well documented in other species though I don't think the reasons are well known and probably vary a good bit. I know for instance male swans will pair for life with other male swans actually stealing nests and raising other swans young.

It's interesting that you bring up serotonin. I wonder if the possibility lower serotonin and therefore possibly higher dopamine in homosexuals could play a role in the high percentage of homosexuals in the arts.

As for something completely observational. I spend a lot of time around a large number of gay men (and other queers) from a wide age range and I would say barring HIV from that sample they are easily both physically and mentally the healthiest group of people I associate with ( straight friends, extended family and coworkers) This could be from the unparalleled (in my experience) sense of community in this particular subculture of the homosexual community and also the uncommonly high level of dopamine in it also. But it is something I have noticed for a long time.

There is actually a wikipedia page about just this topic under "Prenatal hormones and sexual orientation" that covers prenatal stress as a factor in homosexuality.

Also just wanted to point out that 44% of straight men say they have had anal sex with a women and only 67% of gay men say they have anal sex. From people I know it's actually a decent amount of gay men that don't enjoy giving or receiving anal sex so it's definatly not just a gay thing. I for instance am a married, straight, masculine, muscular 210# construction worker and I enjoy both.
 

milk_lover

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So are you telling me that the origin of homosexuality is a disease? So those religious people claiming homosexuality is a disease are not far off from the truth after all.. :lol:
 
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