Hypothyroidism in the mother may lead to gay offspring

[Nicholas]

in my experience, homosexual attraction came on later. i remember being distinctly heterosexual for a time, pre-homo. even as a homosexual, i don't feel like my sexuality is a valid sexuality. i wouldn't be surprised if there are physiological explanations, but if you talk to a lot of gays they will most likely tell you that they believe homosexuality is something they developed (even if young) - that it's something exclusively mental. but the popular media image of the gay is "born this way" and being very antagonistic towards those who try to explain the issue in the realm of "psychology". homosexuals also have the highest incidence of mental disorders. i believe it's just as valid to explore the issue psychologically. kind of like this guy did: https://ifpe.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/h ... -its-name/
the story is different for every person.....but a lot of gays (even practising) feel their homosexuality developed in their life. it has nothing to do with religious beliefs at all.

 

[thegiantess]

Oh dear Jesus Christ. I hope this a joke. Perhaps one should question the motivation of a scientist who aims to look for a disease to explain away homosexuality? Oy ******* vey.

 

[michael94]

post 113505 Oh dear Jesus Christ. I hope this a joke. Perhaps one should question the motivation of a scientist who aims to look for a disease to explain away homosexuality? Oy f***ing vey.

Yes surely the authors of this paper are the only ones with bias on this topic.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I believe that gay people are nature/evolution's way of controlling the population.

But now they can get around this natural blockade but using unnatural methods. I don't like the idea of surrogate pregnancies or anything related to the unnatural process of procreation. It's the same with men who get vasectomies but freeze their sperm just in case they change their mind. I don't believe this because of anything religious becuase I'm not religious at all. I believe it because I feel bad for the person who is created out of such unnatural circumstances. How would you feel if you were told "you were born from using random frozen sperm from a sperm bank. We don't know who your father is and even if we do track him down, by law he doesn't have to talk to you. Also, you were created inside the womb of a random women as you were injected into her though a needle." Even if it wasn't random sperm or a random woman, I still think it's weird. Gay people should just adopt. There's enough orphans that need help.

Screenshoot what I just said and send it to politically correct "social justice warriors." They will try to get me fired from my job.

But wait, I actually love gay people.

Someone can be gay but can be just like anyone else in every other regard. Tall, short, fat, skinny, any ethnicity, any region of the world, any political view, anything. The fact that someone is gay means nothing, besides that they are gay. The people who are against them are wasting their time. Being gay is a natural byproduct of evolution and love between a man and a man and a woman and a woman is just as real as any other love. You can't stop people from being gay. Look all throughout the world, and you find gay people and they've always been here. The claim that "beastiality is natural too" or any other case where one party can not consent, is not a good argument at all. It's about consent. Two consenting adults can do as they wish with each other and the state has no right stepping in. Even if you claim that a large gay population will "ruin the family model" and society will fall, even if that's true, you can't stop people from being gay. Let the chips fall where they may.

Gay people tend to be smarter than the average person: "INTELLIGENCE AND HOMOSEXUALITY"

http://personal.lse.ac.uk/kanazawa/pdfs/JBS2012.pdf

post 113391 "...The mothers who had pregnancy thyroid dysfunction (n=15) reported their diagnoses as either hypothyroidism, goiter or Hashimoto disease whereas three mothers could only recall the presence of a thyroid disorder. Among the mothers interviewed, only three reported medication use in pregnancy which were thyroid hormones."

I think the power of suggestion may be at play here. "Oh yes, now that you say it, I think I was hypothyroid during my pregnancy." Do they have actual medical records showing that they were hypothyroid in their doctors notes?

The argument that the rise in gay people is a result of the modern western lifestyle also has holes. There is well documented history of gay people pre-pufa, pre-industrial revolution, pre-estrogenic chemicals, pre everything today.

If you're a straight single man, just remember that wherever there are gay men, theres a slew of hot women around them. I've met many a women though my gay friends.

 

[Brian]

post 113511 I believe that gay people is nature/evolution's way of controlling the population.

What environmental signals do you think are at play? If this is valid, I would expect it to be that more densely populated areas often result in poorer hormonal health of mothers at the time of pregnancy whether in humans or other animals from various stressors including age of conception. There are several well known studies suggesting that homosexuality is more common in the last born of a family with many sons. This suggests something hormonally changed in the mother after several pregnancies, perhaps related to thyroid function.

I also have nothing against homosexuality, but the better we understand how sexual preference is formed the better we can shape culture to handle the topic among those who are at risk of being treated poorly because of their sexuality or develop self-hatred.

The author of this study actually states this himself:

"More convincing neurobiological evidence will be a positive step towards social acceptance and greater adaptation of young and adult people with same-sex orientation. Violence and prejudice against individuals with same-sex attraction will inevitably lose part of its ground. With further medical understanding and awareness, all medical specialties have to do their best to help all affected people in their potential problems. There is a real need to review all relevant cultural, legal, political and even historical aspects of the topic from the medical standpoint explained in this article. It is only with the rule of science and knowledge that certain misconceptions and misperceptions will be cleared up and humankind will benefit."

 

[natedawggh]

post 113424 Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?

No.

 

[natedawggh]

This is another study that touches upon the effects of specific condition or stress while the woman is pregnant on the future offspring's health and behaviour. I posted some time ago that hypothyroidism in the pregnant mother may lead to autism.
viewtopic.php?f=183&t=2315
Ray has said that it is usually some kind of "stressor" during pregnancy that causes autism. This makes perfect sense given that thyroid status is what determines resistance to stress and toxins.
This recent study now points to hypothyroidism as a potential cause of another phenomenon that has baffled science - the increasing rates of homosexuality in Western countries. While the study does not say in its title the that implicated condition is maternal hypothyroidism, the full article text makes it clear that it is. I suppose it would have been too politically incorrect to say it in the title...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620281/

"...The mothers who had pregnancy thyroid dysfunction (n=15) reported their diagnoses as either hypothyroidism, goiter or Hashimoto disease whereas three mothers could only recall the presence of a thyroid disorder. Among the mothers interviewed, only three reported medication use in pregnancy which were thyroid hormones."

"...For each group compared, there was a significant association between the history of thyroid dysfunction in pregnancy and same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity in the children born to these women (P<0.0001, by Fisher’s exact test). The association was also significant for each sex (P<0.0001, by Fisher’s exact test). In logistic regression analysis, no other factor has been found to influence same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity. Table 1 shows some of the main characteristics of the cases with overlapping conditions. Homophobic bullying, which targets children with same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity appeared to be a common problem (n=7; 58%). In Table 1, relevant data regarding children’s thyroid status was also provided."

"...In this study, a significant association between thyroid dysfunction in pregnancy and same-sex attraction/gender nonconformity in the offspring was found. Several implications may be derived from this finding. To the best of my knowledge, this study is the only one that explored this association with a focused objective and found positive results."

"...Also, a significant rate of children and adolescents with same-sex attraction may remain to be identified. First of all, same-sex interest may manifest later than the mean age we found in this population. Second, sexual behavior understandably may be kept private and secret. Third, as can be seen in Table I, most subjects were male children who assume a feminine role. Active or manly same-sex attraction was not a reason for referral."

"...All possible explanations of the findings will be based on thyroid dysfunction during pregnancy, as it is the most likely predictor of same-sex attraction in the majority of cases. Either present before pregnancy or developed afterwards, thyroid diseases may result in diminished supply of thyroid hormones which are crucial for optimal brain development. Developing brain areas, which will be responsible for determining heterosexual orientation remain undifferentiated without the influence of essential thyroid hormones. As the timing, duration, severity and type of insult during development determine the specific consequence,25 the characteristics of same-sex attraction (i.e., bisexual or entirely homosexual) in the offspring are expected to be shaped by these factors."

I would venture a guess that if this is indeed true it may be related to the effects of thyroid hormone on the synthesis of androgens and estrogens. I posted a study about that here and I strongly advise everybody to read it since it explains the effects of thyroid status on the entire steroid cascade.
viewtopic.php?f=245&t=8065
Hyperthyroid conditions are associated with 4-fold higher androgen synthesis and increased estrogen metabolism into estriol. Hypothyroidism was associated with reduced clearance of cortisol and aldosterone and presence of mostly estradiol as the estrogenic hormone. Thus, hyperthyroid mothers would provide a very androgen-centric developmental environment for the fetus, combined with reduced effects of cortisol, aldosterone and estrogen. On the other hand, hypothyroid mothers will, on average, provide a cortisolic and estrogenic environment, combined with a several-fold lower levels of androgen compared even to euthyroid mothers.

This cannot actually be accurate or all identical twins would be of the same sexual orientation, and the rate is only about half. I would also be suspicious of the study because of their language using "nonconformity" and "same-sex attraction" instead of orientation. These are subtle cues that betray the authors biases. Furthermore, I am homosexual and I know for a fact my mother did not have any thyroid disease when she was pregnant with me, and she had five other children all of whom are heterosexual after developing thyroid disease before the birth of the last two. If it's not true in one case it can't be true ever.

 

[answersfound]

post 113541

post 113424 Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?

No.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but your chronic digestive complications, dogmatic posts and overall defensive nature suggest otherwise.

 

[Parsifal]

It seems that gay prevalence in people is higher in Asian countries (Thailand, India, Pakistan, etc) where there are a lot of estrogenic substances used traditionally since many years so I believe that the correlation is interesting.
No offense to gay people, I believe they are normal and deserve to live normal lives and I don't believe that this would be the only explanation of homosexuality (it's probably not a disease, just a difference) but that is still an interesting study I believe and don't see why it should be censored.

Also there is a new asexual trend (I was one of them but that was more a side effects of autism/schizoidism, even if lately I'm starting to have more libido toward women but still anhedonia):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking ... g-sex.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/o ... having-sex

It would be interesting to see the prevalence of gay animals by species (for example those eating more vegetables/PUFAs, living in the cold and stressful situations and those eating almost no estrogenic substances).
It seems that some animals are asexual as well.

 

[Greg says]

I remember an Herb Doctor episode where Ray touched on sexual ambiguity as a result of a mothers hypothyroidism and excess serotonin. A caller asked him if that is what causes homosexuality- he never directly answered that question.
I would assume this means gay individuals are at greater risk of "becoming" hypothyroid themselves.

I remember this.. I can recall him mentioning exposure to the foetus to oestrogen. Also something about the distance of the sexual organs to the anus. I think (?)
I think because we live in a society where everything is black and white, we have difficultly pigeon holing quirks of nature, sexualities etc. homosexuality is a fact of life, people aren't pretending to be gay or born the wrong sex. It could also be said we are indoctrinated deeply by society/ parents to be totally 'straight'. Straight men become gay under circumstances like prison spells.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

post 113492 So are you telling me that the origin of homosexuality is a disease? So those religious people claiming homosexuality is a disease are not far off from the truth after all..

No, I'm pretty sure those people are full of ***t. Hypothyroidism can also make you short, but you wouldn't call that a disease.

 

[milk_lover]

post 113574

post 113492 So are you telling me that the origin of homosexuality is a disease? So those religious people claiming homosexuality is a disease are not far off from the truth after all..

No, I'm pretty sure those people are full of s***. Hypothyroidism can also make you short, but you wouldn't call that a disease.

Actually I heard the opposite, hypothyroidism can make a person very tall, like in the range of 6.5+ feet.

 

[lexis]

Its a societal issue.The problem of Beta male orbiters is a problem similar to gay problem

 

[Parsifal]

post 113575

post 113574

post 113492 So are you telling me that the origin of homosexuality is a disease? So those religious people claiming homosexuality is a disease are not far off from the truth after all..

No, I'm pretty sure those people are full of s***. Hypothyroidism can also make you short, but you wouldn't call that a disease.

Actually I heard the opposite, hypothyroidism can make a person very tall, like in the range of 6.5+ feet.

That is my case .

 

[Hugh Johnson]

post 113575

post 113574

post 113492 So are you telling me that the origin of homosexuality is a disease? So those religious people claiming homosexuality is a disease are not far off from the truth after all..

No, I'm pretty sure those people are full of s***. Hypothyroidism can also make you short, but you wouldn't call that a disease.

Actually I heard the opposite, hypothyroidism can make a person very tall, like in the range of 6.5+ feet.

"Primary hypothyroidism is a known
cause of short stature in children."

http://www.endocrinefellows.org/newslet ... ds13_4.pdf

"The most common manifestation of hypothyroidism in children is declining growth velocity, often resulting in short stature. "

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/acquir ... dolescence

Like one minute google search. "I have heard" is not an argument.

 

[Philomath]

Societal norms and values are what dictates whether a physical attribute is normal or abnormal. Why do we label hypothyroidism, or cancer, a disease at all? Why label short, autistic, gay?? We are either running at peak, efficient metabolism or not.
I wonder what someone would look like that was born without inherited deficiencies, raised without stress and living 24/7 with uncoupled respiration.

 

[Sheila]

Good morning
Ray Peat has mentioned that in hypothyroidic teenagers, long bone end plates may not close at the right time (I am paraphrasing him) and in this case, these hypothyroidics can grow very tall indeed, well over 6ft.
I have seen several examples of this personally (with many of the corresponding other signs of hypothyroidism) and I suspect this aspect of growth depends on when exactly the metabolic depression occurs in development and sometimes this may come from excessive sport perhaps, as in rebound hypothyroidism. That might explain some of the cases I have seen.
Sheila

 

[milk_lover]

post 113581

post 113575

post 113574

post 113492 So are you telling me that the origin of homosexuality is a disease? So those religious people claiming homosexuality is a disease are not far off from the truth after all..

No, I'm pretty sure those people are full of s***. Hypothyroidism can also make you short, but you wouldn't call that a disease.

Actually I heard the opposite, hypothyroidism can make a person very tall, like in the range of 6.5+ feet.

"Primary hypothyroidism is a known
cause of short stature in children."

http://www.endocrinefellows.org/newslet ... ds13_4.pdf

"The most common manifestation of hypothyroidism in children is declining growth velocity, often resulting in short stature. "

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/acquir ... dolescence

Like one minute google search. "I have heard" is not an argument.

I am not trying to argue though, just giving a different view on the discussion.

post 113580 That is my case .

You're fine, brother girls dig tall guys anyways, don't worry.

post 113706 Good morning
Ray Peat has mentioned that in hypothyroidic teenagers, long bone end plates may not close at the right time (I am paraphrasing him) and in this case, these hypothyroidics can grow very tall indeed, well over 6ft.
I have seen several examples of this personally (with many of the corresponding other signs of hypothyroidism) and I suspect this aspect of growth depends on when exactly the metabolic depression occurs in development and sometimes this may come from excessive sport perhaps, as in rebound hypothyroidism. That might explain some of the cases I have seen.
Sheila

Thank you Sheila for writing this up. This is way better than "I have heard"

post 113604 I wonder what someone would look like that was born without inherited deficiencies, raised without stress and living 24/7 with uncoupled respiration.

pboy is a prime example, Amazonic will agree!

 

[tobieagle]

post 113426

post 113424 Interesting. I have a friend who is gay, and cannot, for his life lose weight. He is definitely hypothyroid. So if he was properly treated for hypothyroidism, would he no longer be attracted to the same sex?

Now that is an interesting question

+1

Interesting question indeed.
But people would probably hang us for performing such an experiment.


edit:
Btw haidut, can you please stop opening facinating topics?
I have work to do

 

[Daimyo]

post 113858

Interesting question indeed.
But people would probably hang us for performing such an experiment.

Maybe we can get some funding from Vatican?