The Fruit -fructose Dillema Regarding Collagen ?

AlexanderCPPR

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Alright guys, I`m new in this one, I`ve studied hair and folicles and pigment and catalase for a while, now I want to research this new subject too about collagen (skin aging) and I found some intriguing questions flowing around my brain. Be it like this :

1. If carbs get converted in the same way it does sugar, so they get converted to glucose and the glucose clings to collagen and destroys it, does that mean that all carbs are bad for our skin ??? (with wheat the worst as it can cause inflammation too) ?

Rice Cakes

Despite being at the top of most people's diet-inspired grocery lists, rice cakes are actually horrible for your skin. Eating them causes your blood sugar to increase dramatically, which causes wrinkles because "your body metabolizes the simple carbs in the cake the same way it does sugar--by converting them to glucose." After they've been converted, the glucose clings to collagen and damages it.

2. If fruits are full of fructose which will convert lately the same way to sugar / glucose, does that mean that a high fruit diet is the same with high sugar diet and results in high fruits diet being bad for our skin too ????

Please shed a light on this one and answer my question, because I am VERY CONFUSED right now,

thank you
 

lampofred

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Dr. Peat said a high testosterone to cortisol ratio is important for preventing wrinkles. Starch increases cortisol more than sugar, so sugar might be better for skin.
 

AlexanderCPPR

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Dr. Peat said a high testosterone to cortisol ratio is important for preventing wrinkles. Starch increases cortisol more than sugar, so sugar might be better for skin.

I asked 2 questions and I mentioned Dr. Peat in none of them, neither did I mention cortisol or testo. ...

Starch, is the carb found in potatoes and sweet potatoes.

Sweet potatoes are fountain of youth reason why people in the Blue Zones never getting old, so how's that skin aging from starch ? . . .

Wheat is known for causing extreme inflamation thou.... I am talking about

Real stuff here. So I asked those questions
 

Kingpinguin

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I asked 2 questions and I mentioned Dr. Peat in none of them, neither did I mention cortisol or testo. ...

Starch, is the carb found in potatoes and sweet potatoes.

Sweet potatoes are fountain of youth reason why people in the Blue Zones never getting old, so how's that skin aging from starch ? . . .

Wheat is known for causing extreme inflamation thou.... I am talking about

Real stuff here. So I asked those questions

Never heard that glucose will destroy collagen? Studies I’ve researched says glucose helps increase collagen production in diabetics. Same likely for fructose. Neither glucose and frucose is good or bad. They are just essential and that means your vital body functions does not work without them. I saw the link to the 10 food that causes wrinkles and the mans logic that glucose will cause skin aging is just far fetched. I have to see evidence of this and I wouldnt trust a top 10 bad foods article. So much bs. None of the foods the mention are bad in that way and causes inflammation in my opinion. Those foods cause trouble in people because they are sensitive. Thats because their immune system is all amped up on all histamine. If you first bring down histamine and also get endotoxin, bacteria under control your immune system will calm down and you will not react to foods in that way. Most likely lots of people are insensitive to these other foods for this reason because they consume too much PUFA and that will cause inflammation in the first place eventually leading to an sensitive immune system and then you get all metabolic diseases and that causes premature aging of your whole body including brain, skin and vital organs.
 

CLASH

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If carbs get converted in the same way it does sugar, so they get converted to glucose and the glucose clings to collagen and destroys it, does that mean that all carbs are bad for our skin ??? (with wheat the worst as it can cause inflammation too) ?

Glucose doesnt cling to collagen and destroy it. This premise is incorrect. Advanced glycation end products from what I understand are a product mainly of polyunsaturated fatty acids breakdown. I think you are confused because your primary tenants are wrong i.e. that glucose clings to collagen and destroys it and that dietary carbohydrates are the primary mediators of advanced glycation end products.

Wheat is damaging due to opiate peptides, the addition of reduced iron, folic acid, bromides during processing, gums during processing, non-boiled starch in some forms, proteins that damage the intestinal lining, compounds that sequester minerals, high phosphate content, poor mineral content, and poor protein quality/ fatty acid type.

I dont know where you got the quote you posted but that quote is false. Whoever wrote has a questionable understanding of physiology at best. I'd avoid reading that persons information.

If fruits are full of fructose which will convert lately the same way to sugar / glucose, does that mean that a high fruit diet is the same with high sugar diet and results in high fruits diet being bad for our skin too ????

As I said above this premise or idea isnt reality. Its not supported by any science. Its mostly blogosphere/ low carb scare tactics. Sugar and starch have different metabolic effects especially sugar coming from fruit. The best/ safest source of carbs, with the most nutrients and health benefits is sugar from fruits and starch from tubers. Dairy can also be considered for individuals who tolerate it.

I asked 2 questions and I mentioned Dr. Peat in none of them, neither did I mention cortisol or testo. ...

Starch, is the carb found in potatoes and sweet potatoes.

Sweet potatoes are fountain of youth reason why people in the Blue Zones never getting old, so how's that skin aging from starch ? . . .

Wheat is known for causing extreme inflamation thou.... I am talking about

Real stuff here. So I asked those questions

Perhaps you should have mentioned Ray Peat, because he talks about the phenomena you are talking about in his articles and interviews. If you looked at his work you may not have had to ask this question here.

You may want to look at cortisol and tesosterone because its intimately involved in the process you wish to understand on a few levels. In my experience, sometimes you dont get the answers you want or were expecting but you get the answers that matter.

Blue zone research is questionable. The story we get from these so called "researchers and professors" can often have an agenda behind it. The okinawan eat alot of pork and pig fat.... They dont just live on purple sweet potatoes lol. Besides that the okinawan diet has changed drastically in the past century especially if you consider the effects of the world wars. The picture presented in the blue zone books and studies presented in the mainstream is skewed at best.
 

AlexanderCPPR

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Very interesting post ! thank you !

Seems I have a lot to learn from you :) And I`m willing too !

So if I am right, you say that :

1. Glucose will not destroy the collagen matrix ? if so, how come every study on sugar confirms that it can cause skin problems, of course refined sugar not... from fruit fructose ? Do you think that a diet high in sweets will do no bad / harm to skin ??

2. Best carbs are from tubers and fruit ? let's say sweet potatoes and fruits ?

3. High testosterone provides good healthy skin ?

4. Could keeping high testosterone up until late age, make one healthy / young looking ? even if it takes strategies to do that high T ?

6. Considering that sweet potatoes contain high amounts of copper / beta carrotene , couldn't the blue zones theory have some truth in it ?

Thank you sir.
 

Herbie

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I don’t have any evidence but the blue zones are possibly people claiming to be older, using parents birth certificate and a lot of fraud going on in regards to the real facts so to say potatoes are fountain of youth is correlation.
 

Lone Bunman

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3. High testosterone provides good healthy skin ?

4. Could keeping high testosterone up until late age, make one healthy / young looking ? even if it

6. Considering that sweet potatoes contain high amounts of copper / beta carrotene , couldn't the blue zones theory have some truth in it ?

3. Men's skin tends to age better.
4. Anecdotal and I have no source, but I've heard people like Elle MacPherson take small amounts of test for their skin. Maybe it's just a wild rumour.
6. Probably the copper balances/blocking iron.
 

AlexanderCPPR

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I don’t have any evidence but the blue zones are possibly people claiming to be older, using parents birth certificate and a lot of fraud going on in regards to the real facts so to say potatoes are fountain of youth is correlation.

I doubt that... it was a large research done by many , not a single particular case
 

Hans

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. If carbs get converted in the same way it does sugar, so they get converted to glucose and the glucose clings to collagen and destroys it, does that mean that all carbs are bad for our skin ??? (with wheat the worst as it can cause inflammation too) ?
Starch as in potatoes and sweet potatoes are pure glucose. If you think glucose is bad, then you should avoid all starches, fruits, etc. But no, glucose is not bad for you, your body needs it very much. As per the Walter Kempner diet, the people ate a very high carb diet with very low fat, and they have warm, smooth, reddish (healthy blood flow) skin even into their old age due to high CO2 production from the carbs (both starch and fruit). Carbs are very beneficial to the body if metabolized correctly. PUFAs, which promote inflammation, is awful to the skin, as well as a combination of high PUFA and fructose. A high phosphorous to calcium ratio is awful for the skin. Starches high in phosphorus can be bad for the skin if they are not balanced with calcium. Grains could be awful to the skin because of the gluten (that causes inflammation in some people) and the high phosphorus to calcium ratio as well as other immunogens/irritants.

2. If fruits are full of fructose which will convert lately the same way to sugar / glucose, does that mean that a high fruit diet is the same with high sugar diet and results in high fruits diet being bad for our skin too ????
Fruit and sugar is 50/50 glucose and fructose. Fructose is converted to glycogen and glucose which is then metabolized to ATP and CO2. Fruit can thus be very beneficial to the skin because it digests easy, has less phosphorus than starches and is great for energy and CO2 production and contains a lot of beneficial compounds such as flavonoids.
 

CLASH

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Very interesting post ! thank you !

Seems I have a lot to learn from you :) And I`m willing too !

So if I am right, you say that :

1. Glucose will not destroy the collagen matrix ? if so, how come every study on sugar confirms that it can cause skin problems, of course refined sugar not... from fruit fructose ? Do you think that a diet high in sweets will do no bad / harm to skin ??

2. Best carbs are from tubers and fruit ? let's say sweet potatoes and fruits ?

3. High testosterone provides good healthy skin ?

4. Could keeping high testosterone up until late age, make one healthy / young looking ? even if it takes strategies to do that high T ?

6. Considering that sweet potatoes contain high amounts of copper / beta carrotene , couldn't the blue zones theory have some truth in it ?

Thank you sir.

1) no glucose will not destroy the collagen matrix. In the absence of glucose, once glycogen is majorly depleted cortisol rises to induce gluconeogenesis which is the creation of glucose. The glucose is created from amino acids. These amino acids come from the muscle tissue, connective tissue, skin etc. Thus a lack of glucose over a period of time directly degrades the collagen matrix. Thats why people keep harping on cortisol here. Testosterone to cortisol ratio is an effective relative indicator of anabolism vs. catabolism. If testosterone is high and cortisol is low, it is likely that your body is not degrading its tissues to produce energy, Its actually in a state of building its tissues. I think some mechanisms of testosterone may have beneficial effects but I think high testosterone and low cortisol is more indicative of the the underlying state of the body, which is more important in the grand scheme. I wouldnt get caught up in the specifics of the test: cortisol ratio, but look at it overall as a general indicator of anabolism/ catabolism.

2) Yes Fruit, 100% juice and tubers are the best source of carbs for multiple reasonse. Some people handle white potatoes better than sweet potatoes due to sweet potatoes fodmap content and type of starch (amylose), thats why I left it broad at tubers.

3) See number 1 above. Testosterone may help with skin health, but whats more likely is that a high testosterone to cortisol ratio is indicative of a general state of health for a man with less catabolic function occuring and more anabolic function. The catabolic function is what breaks down the skin. Elevated cortisol is generally related to either lack of glucose or and excess of inflammation.

4) Testosterone may have some benefit. But again, I think high T, with a lower cortisol is a symbol of the bodies physical state. Just having high T or artificially elevating your T isnt neccesarily the answer. Its the bodies environment overall that matters. These markers are indicators.

5) I dont think the carotenese are neccesarily helpful or harmful. Theres alot more to the sweet potato than copper and carotene. The carbohydrate, multiple vitamins, multiple minerals, plant compounds, and lack of toxins compared to other foods like grains make it a relatively good food overall. Same goes for fruit. As for the longevity aspect, the element of community, living at altitude, quality of food and water, dietary choices, low level moderate activity, lack of unneccesary stress etc. are all factors. I doubt its just the sweet potatoes alone. People in the US could easily live to blue zone ages if thier diet was better, they had less stress, they had more community/ family, they stayed away from doctors and pharma, they stopped drinking and smoking, and they did some moderate level enjoyable activity like dancing, hiking, martial arts, some sports, real hobbies like gardening, fencing, archery, etc.
 

AlexanderCPPR

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Starch as in potatoes and sweet potatoes are pure glucose. If you think glucose is bad, then you should avoid all starches, fruits, etc. But no, glucose is not bad for you, your body needs it very much. As per the Walter Kempner diet, the people ate a very high carb diet with very low fat, and they have warm, smooth, reddish (healthy blood flow) skin even into their old age due to high CO2 production from the carbs (both starch and fruit). Carbs are very beneficial to the body if metabolized correctly. PUFAs, which promote inflammation, is awful to the skin, as well as a combination of high PUFA and fructose. A high phosphorous to calcium ratio is awful for the skin. Starches high in phosphorus can be bad for the skin if they are not balanced with calcium. Grains could be awful to the skin because of the gluten (that causes inflammation in some people) and the high phosphorus to calcium ratio as well as other immunogens/irritants.


Fruit and sugar is 50/50 glucose and fructose. Fructose is converted to glycogen and glucose which is then metabolized to ATP and CO2. Fruit can thus be very beneficial to the skin because it digests easy, has less phosphorus than starches and is great for energy and CO2 production and contains a lot of beneficial compounds such as flavonoids.

Ok this got me totally confused. So what is in your opinion the best diet against aging ?

What do you think that destroys collagen and causes grey hair ? for one reason all people I know that consumet lots of sweets (sugar) have horrible saggy skin, and they are not a few. Why would I NOT avoid consuming sweets ? thank you
 

AlexanderCPPR

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1) no glucose will not destroy the collagen matrix. In the absence of glucose, once glycogen is majorly depleted cortisol rises to induce gluconeogenesis which is the creation of glucose. The glucose is created from amino acids. These amino acids come from the muscle tissue, connective tissue, skin etc. Thus a lack of glucose over a period of time directly degrades the collagen matrix. Thats why people keep harping on cortisol here. Testosterone to cortisol ratio is an effective relative indicator of anabolism vs. catabolism. If testosterone is high and cortisol is low, it is likely that your body is not degrading its tissues to produce energy, Its actually in a state of building its tissues. I think some mechanisms of testosterone may have beneficial effects but I think high testosterone and low cortisol is more indicative of the the underlying state of the body, which is more important in the grand scheme. I wouldnt get caught up in the specifics of the test: cortisol ratio, but look at it overall as a general indicator of anabolism/ catabolism.

2) Yes Fruit, 100% juice and tubers are the best source of carbs for multiple reasonse. Some people handle white potatoes better than sweet potatoes due to sweet potatoes fodmap content and type of starch (amylose), thats why I left it broad at tubers.

3) See number 1 above. Testosterone may help with skin health, but whats more likely is that a high testosterone to cortisol ratio is indicative of a general state of health for a man with less catabolic function occuring and more anabolic function. The catabolic function is what breaks down the skin. Elevated cortisol is generally related to either lack of glucose or and excess of inflammation.

4) Testosterone may have some benefit. But again, I think high T, with a lower cortisol is a symbol of the bodies physical state. Just having high T or artificially elevating your T isnt neccesarily the answer. Its the bodies environment overall that matters. These markers are indicators.

5) I dont think the carotenese are neccesarily helpful or harmful. Theres alot more to the sweet potato than copper and carotene. The carbohydrate, multiple vitamins, multiple minerals, plant compounds, and lack of toxins compared to other foods like grains make it a relatively good food overall. Same goes for fruit. As for the longevity aspect, the element of community, living at altitude, quality of food and water, dietary choices, low level moderate activity, lack of unneccesary stress etc. are all factors. I doubt its just the sweet potatoes alone. People in the US could easily live to blue zone ages if thier diet was better, they had less stress, they had more community/ family, they stayed away from doctors and pharma, they stopped drinking and smoking, and they did some moderate level enjoyable activity like dancing, hiking, martial arts, some sports, real hobbies like gardening, fencing, archery, etc.


Thank you, I ask you the same question.

About sweets. There are a few people I know that eat tons of sweets (sugar) and their skin looks terrible. Saggy, like they have double or triple faces, I am more than 100% it's the sugar, as these people are addicted to sugars. So how come sugar will not destroy collagen / elastin ?

What would be in your view the best diet against aging ? and aging I meat specifically gray hair and skin wrinkles/ sagging ?

Also, another question, I 've read tons of accounts around the internet on various forums about gray hair and people on keto / autophagy communities noticed reversal of gray hair when they went on super low carb diet / high fat and /or fasting. Why ? they were not expecting this, it was just reported, and I saw many many accounts of that. In no way it can be a coincidence.

Do you think the keto lifestyle /fasting is not good for aging ? what would be your approach for age reversal in terms of diet ? thank you so

much

Alex
 

CLASH

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Thank you, I ask you the same question.

About sweets. There are a few people I know that eat tons of sweets (sugar) and their skin looks terrible. Saggy, like they have double or triple faces, I am more than 100% it's the sugar, as these people are addicted to sugars. So how come sugar will not destroy collagen / elastin ?

What would be in your view the best diet against aging ? and aging I meat specifically gray hair and skin wrinkles/ sagging ?

Also, another question, I 've read tons of accounts around the internet on various forums about gray hair and people on keto / autophagy communities noticed reversal of gray hair when they went on super low carb diet / high fat and /or fasting. Why ? they were not expecting this, it was just reported, and I saw many many accounts of that. In no way it can be a coincidence.

Do you think the keto lifestyle /fasting is not good for aging ? what would be your approach for age reversal in terms of diet ? thank you so

much

Alex

Depends on what those sweets are.

I dont see any plausible mechanism for which fruit and 100% fruit juice would cause an issue, nor do I see a mechanism for which tubers would be an issue. The caveat here is personal tolerance to the individual foods, for example if tubers mess up your digestion or cause some issues then dont eat them until the situation (usually a gut issue such as a dysbiosis) is cleared up.

Fruit, 100% fruit juice, tubers, meat, seafood and saturated fat sources would be the best anti-aging diet in my opinion. Dairy is person specific.

Most people go to low carb from a sh*t diet to begin. The switch to low carb usually involves dropping grains, beans, processed foods etc. and replacing them with vegetables, meat, seafood and saturated fat sources with low carb fruit varieties. This in itself is a massively beneficial change. Dropping the carbs may not actually be the benefit, its dropping all the other sh*t that carbs are often associated with. Give me a low carb person, I'll tell them to keep thier diet of meat, seafood anf saturated fat, but I'd add fruit, 100% fruit juice and drop any nuts or seeds. If they tolerate dairy I'd put that in as well. I think you'd find that they'd keep thier health benefits with this that they gained in low carb and find some issues often associated with low carb such as low testosterone, low thyroid, poor sleep, mood issues, coldness, hairloss etc largely eliminated. The question isnt carbs vs fats vs proteins. Thats the wrong question. The question is what carbs, what fats, what proteins, and how much of all those together.
 
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