Technology to Measure Endotoxin Levels

[EndAllDisease]

Does anybody know of a device that can measure the levels of endotoxic-producing bacteria in the gut at any given time?

If this device hasn't been invented, or you don't know of one, theoretically, what would be the most effective way to do this?

 

[tara]

Approximate by daily volume of stool, adjusting for approximate water content?

 

[Suikerbuik]

I am not sure if it's useful to know the levels of endotoxin-producing bacteria. I'd be more interested in serum levels, and than I guess you end up with something like an ELISA or HPLC-technique, but this is not durable for someone experimenting at home.

 

[piotr_zarach]

you could measure prolactin as it is serotonin, estrogen indicator and test your liver values

 

[ecstatichamster]

CRP would be an indicator, wouldn't it?

 

[Suikerbuik]

CRP can be variable. In the case of chronic disease CRP is often normal, despite LPS burden.

 

[brandonk]

post 116935 Does anybody know of a device that can measure the levels of endotoxic-producing bacteria in the gut at any given time?

If this device hasn't been invented, or you don't know of one, theoretically, what would be the most effective way to do this?

It was noticed as early as the 1920s that observation could reliably discern metabolic disorders associated with the type of bacteria in the gut. More recently, potentiometers have been used to measure redox potential of undigested food passing from the intestine.

As to endotoxins specifically, these are produced only by gram-negative bacteria, which are profoundly anaerobic and require a low redox potential for survival, and take advantage of a breach in the ideally high-redox state mucosa of the intestinal wall.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK8438/

In the 1920s physicians noted that metabolic disorders (i.e., subnormal body temperatures) were associated with alkali-loving (i.e., low redox potential) bacteria that are proteolytic or putrefactive (i.e., foul-smelling) and typically cheesy, hard formed or with the consistency of putty. However, metabolic disorders are also associated with diarrhea (sometimes called paradoxical diarrhea) if it is putrefactive (or foul-smelling).

In contrast, Ray Peat has described a state of metabolic health as creating a stool like a cowpie or at most soft and flat, without unpleasant odor. One could perhaps pick up where Ray Peat has so far left off and write a book on the topic that very simply explains much of aging and disease. A hundred years ago or more, physicians knew to "test" the stool, and Metchnikoff's discoveries in the field in the late 1800s are still highly regarded. But now, only tests that are profitable are used, although it would seem the powers of one's own observation can be more reliable and immediate.

 

[haidut]

CRP can be variable. In the case of chronic disease CRP is often normal, despite LPS burden.

TNF-a is also very sensitive to endotoxin in the bloodstream. The liver enzymes, especially GGT, are also very sensitive to systemic endotoxin load. Finally, NAD/NADH ratio will also be very sensitive but I am not aware of any standard lab tests that can do that. However, one would probably have to test on a daily basis to find a baseline and identify peaks related to endotoxin. A single measure of these biomarkers will likely only tell you if you have chronic inflammatory condition.

 

[tara]

post 117027 n contrast, Ray Peat has described a state of metabolic health as creating a stool like a cowpie or at most soft and flat,

I thought he said formed but soft?

 

[brandonk]

The stool form score that's used in the studies Ray Peat refers to is called the Bristol scale?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9512951

Higher scores would be considered better in the range of 4-6, 4 being flat, and 6 being what Ray Peat calls "cowpie".
https://www.gutsense.org/constipation/i ... hlight.gif

I'm not sure how I think I know Ray Peat's view on this (maybe email with him?)

 

[EndAllDisease]

Okay so visually analyzing stool hardness, although practical, seems highly subjective and difficult to obtain a precise answer.

What do you guys think of the following idea as a method to indicate an overgrowth in the small intestine:
A device that can measure and test for hydrogen and methane producing bacteria.

 

[brandonk]

post 117358 Okay so visually analyzing stool hardness, although practical, it seems highly subjective and difficult to obtain a precise answer.

What do you guys think of the following idea as a method to indicate an overgrowth in the small intestine:
A device that can measure and test for hydrogen and methane producing bacteria.

Ironically the stool form score is used in experiments because it gives relatively precise answer. It's also been around for more than hundred years as far as I can tell. Appearance and odor are also not really subjective, either, if as I suspect a hundred people are all going to give pretty much the same observation.

I've looked into measuring nitric oxide in the breath, but it's extremely expensive and requires measuring in the parts per billion, which is unlikely to yield a precise answer. Measuring the presence of methane only gives you a red flag, but the absence of methane doesn't tell you you are on a path to metabolic wellness, as the stool form score does.

 

[LucH]

post 117358 A device that can measure and test for hydrogen and methane producing bacteria.

Yes, that's the right approach.
http://clesdesante.over-blog.com/articl ... 23823.html
(in French)

 

[Jennifer]

I'm with Brandon on the old school method. Just by using our senses, we can tell a lot about what's going on in the gut. The odor and shape of our stools, number of bowel movements per day, residue on the toilet paper after wiping, belly distention after eating, gas, churning/moaning in the gut, the level of body odor such as that in our underarms, sweat or breath, the clarity of our skin, head and tongue, excess mucous, stuffiness in our nasal passages, disturbed sleep, restless legs and even our moods are all things to look out for when it comes to poorly tolerated/digested food and resulting excess bacteria and endotoxins.

I've done expensive stool tests, digestive and enzyme tests, lengthy SIBO tests, blood and urine serotonin tests, endoscopies, allergy and intolerance tests, dropped all fiber and starch from my diet and eventually most foods, took rounds of antibiotics and natural antimicrobials, heck, even had a faith healing, and while I did get temporary relief from symptoms, nothing completely resolved long-term until I dropped the diet I clearly wasn't tolerating despite my best Peaty efforts. I made the grave mistake for the second time in my life trying to mold my body to suit the diet instead of molding the diet to suit my body.

Now that I've gone back to the diet I digest best, my skin no longer rashes and is super soft despite the winter months. My head and nasal passages stay clear, my breath is always fresh even first thing in the morning, my gut no longer churns or burns and I have 2-3 odorless, residueless, fluffy "cowpie" BMs a day. I have absolutely no odor in my sweat and just a soft fruity scent in my underarms and the severe depression I struggled with is a thing of the past. By applying Ray's concepts that I resonate with to the diet I digest best, I'm getting the benefits I previously got doing 80/10/10, while keeping my bone density, muscle mass, libido, hair and sanity.

 

[InChristAlone]

post 117467 I'm with Brandon on the old school method. Just by using our senses, we can tell a lot about what's going on in the gut. The odor and shape of our stools, number of bowel movements per day, residue on the toilet paper after wiping, belly distention after eating, gas, churning/moaning in the gut, the level of body odor such as that in our underarms, sweat or breath, the clarity of our skin, head and tongue, excess mucous, stuffiness in our nasal passages, disturbed sleep, restless legs and even our moods are all things to look out for when it comes to poorly tolerated/digested food and resulting excess bacteria and endotoxins.

I've done expensive stool tests, digestive and enzyme tests, lengthy SIBO tests, blood and urine serotonin tests, endoscopies, allergy and intolerance tests, dropped all fiber and starch from my diet and eventually most foods, took rounds of antibiotics and natural antimicrobials, heck, even had a faith healing, and while I did get temporary relief from symptoms, nothing completely resolved long-term until I dropped the diet I clearly wasn't tolerating despite my best Peaty efforts. I made the grave mistake for the second time in my life trying to mold my body to suit the diet instead of molding the diet to suit my body.

Now that I've gone back to the diet I digest best, my skin no longer rashes and is super soft despite the winter months. My head and nasal passages stay clear, my breath is always fresh even first thing in the morning, my gut no longer churns or burns and I have 2-3 odorless, residueless, fluffy "cowpie" BMs a day. I have absolutely no odor in my sweat and just a soft fruity scent in my underarms and the severe depression I struggled with is a thing of the past. By applying Ray's concepts that I resonate with to the diet I digest best, I'm getting the benefits I previously got doing 80/10/10, while keeping my bone density, muscle mass, libido, hair and sanity.

That's incredible, how did you figure out such a diet?

 

[Blossom]

Go Jennifer and thanks for the update!

 

[Jennifer]

That's incredible, how did you figure out such a diet?

My apologies in advance. I have a hard time not sounding like a fortune cookie and my editor was smart enough to quit the gig so...

The CliffsNotes version is I made a ton of mistakes, almost died from them, fought my way back while making more mistakes and realized the mistakes were merely rungs on the ladder leading me back to my true self. I then silenced the background noise of society long enough to hear my own voice. My only hurdle was having enough courage to follow it and now, always keeping it within earshot.

My view is probably far too idealistic for a technically inclined mind, but I believe intuition trumps even the most advanced gadgets and tests. Learn who you are and who you are not and love that person you discover. Once you do, you're better equipped for discerning what is good for you and what isn't and you're less likely to be swayed by outside influences, ignoring all the signals your body naturally sends you.

After following and researching an alarming number of health modalities , both food and spiritually centered, as well as paying attention to other people's experiences, I focused on their similarities as I see this as holding some semblance of truth, while acknowledging my own body's reactions and my personal preferences and values that have been with me long before I was led to believe one way or another about, well...everything.

With all that said, as much as I believe diet can be a powerful tool, it will never hold a candle to the self. Sorry to everyone for getting off topic.

post 117565 Go Jennifer and thanks for the update!

Thanks, Blossom!

 

[InChristAlone]

Jennifer,
So you believe in intuitive eating? I would have to agree with that. Sometimes it can be hard to discern what the body needs though. That's awesome you found what works for you!

 

[brandonk]

post 117573 With all that said, as much as I believe diet can be a powerful tool, it will never hold a candle to the self. Sorry to everyone for getting off topic.

I agree that the self exists or is stored in a flow of energetic "electrons" that is, at least for me, outside the the "body".

But what are the things that influence the self that is stored? The goings on of digestion in the intestine seem to alter the self in a diurnal cycle, every ninety minutes as if there's a clock. With all that said, one could equally say, as much as the self can be a powerful tool, it will never hold a candle to diet.

 

[EndAllDisease]

post 117573 The CliffsNotes version is I made a ton of mistakes, almost died from them, fought my way back while making more mistakes and realized the mistakes were merely rungs on the ladder leading me back to my true self. I then silenced the background noise of society long enough to hear my own voice. My only hurdle was having enough courage to follow it and now, always keeping it within earshot.My view is probably far too idealistic for a technically inclined mind, but I believe intuition trumps even the most advanced gadgets and tests. Learn who you are and who you are not and love that person you discover. Once you do, you're better equipped for discerning what is good for you and what isn't and you're less likely to be swayed by outside influences, ignoring all the signals your body naturally sends you. After following and researching an alarming number of health modalities , both food and spiritually centered, as well as paying attention to other people's experiences, I focused on their similarities as I see this as holding some semblance of truth, while acknowledging my own body's reactions and my personal preferences and values that have been with me long before I was led to believe one way or another about, well...everything.With all that said, as much as I believe diet can be a powerful tool, it will never hold a candle to the self. Sorry to everyone for getting off topic.

That sounds very new age luciferian and cultish of you. You're very good at talking and saying nothing of practical value.

Many people crave McDonalds 'intuitively' and end up eating a ton of unsaturated fats that eventually lead to their untimely deaths. While I do wish you the best like everyone else, I think you have too much pride.