Taking T3 Without T4

[Jsaute21]

I wanted to gage folks success on here with taking T3 without the use of T4. I have read many contradictory opinions on this strategy. Some folks say they get heart palpitations from just T3, while others love it and don't feel good on T4. I ask because T4 keeps my TSH very l0w (below 1) but other than that gives really no noticeable effect. It can be warming at night before bed, but often i wake up with severe histamine symptoms (awful allergies) and it seems to put like 3 extra lbs of fat on me that i have never had in my life. I am close to abandoning cynoplus but wanted to get folks experiences on here before i pull the trigger.

 

[ilikecats]

@Jsaute21 i don’t think I’d throw out the t4 if I was you.,, I’d just try to adjust the ratio of t4 to T3. How much T4 and T3 are you taking? I’d at least give a ratio of 3:1 a try first. Ray said 2:1 might be needed for some and I hear of a lot of people having success with 1:1.

 

[Jsaute21]

@Jsaute21 i don’t think I’d throw out the t4 if I was you.,, I’d just try to adjust the ratio of t4 to T3. How much T4 and T3 are you taking? I’d at least give a ratio of 3:1 a try first. Ray said 2:1 might be needed for some and I hear of a lot of people having success with 1:1.

Typically i take 2:1 ratio of t4/t3.

 

[Luckytype]

I wanted to gage folks success on here with taking T3 without the use of T4. I have read many contradictory opinions on this strategy. Some folks say they get heart palpitations from just T3, while others love it and don't feel good on T4. I ask because T4 keeps my TSH very l0w (below 1) but other than that gives really no noticeable effect. It can be warming at night before bed, but often i wake up with severe histamine symptoms (awful allergies) and it seems to put like 3 extra lbs of fat on me that i have never had in my life. I am close to abandoning cynoplus but wanted to get folks experiences on here before i pull the trigger.

Per our conversations this is going to require a little trial and error. Each person at any given time of the year is going to require something different.

You have to consider dosing, frequency of it, where around food timing you do it etc.

I truly think that when I started on thyroid after packing in nutrition for a couple years it would not have benefited me at all to do anything with t4. My t4 was low as was my t3 but my RT3 was ridiculously high. I knew i needed something to help immediately but also to get the cells moving enough to make the phone calls to request more thyroid from my body. Part of this decision was also finding something to help eliminate and/or compete better with RT3.

Monotherapy of t3 while it took some mindfulness was probably the best thing i couldve done before adding in ndt. I did this out of fear of worsening my already poor conversion. I used labs to figure out my dosing.

4 months later after working onto two therapies strategically calculates i sit at 1.2ish TSH with better t3 and t4 ranges. Only after getting bloodwork for the 3 months did i make the move to increase my ndt slightly and my t3 slightly

A reason your TSH is low could in theory be an issue of conversion/less than ideal utilization. So if by chance you have a lot of t4 floating around unused or unstored, TSH will be calmed. If you dig around, youll find people with "good" TSH, still feeling like crap and thats probably because other bits and pieces are missing and thus the body is keeping the brakes on.

Another thing is the "warming" you experience may be your body trying to cool off before you sleep. I experience this, my temp falls from 98s into mid/low 97s, i feel physically warm but i do not fall asleep until that sensation of extreme warmth stops despite the temp being 97.5 while feeling it.

I would maybe consider a different ratio of t3/4. That could mean backing off a little of your combo or adding some t3 during the day

I would also consider the timing or splitting it or doing it physiologically like a little crumb here and there during the day and the remainder at night.

What amount are you using right now for your cynoplus?

 

[Jsaute21]

Per our conversations this is going to require a little trial and error. Each person at any given time of the year is going to require something different.

You have to consider dosing, frequency of it, where around food timing you do it etc.

I truly think that when I started on thyroid after packing in nutrition for a couple years it would not have benefited me at all to do anything with t4. My t4 was low as was my t3 but my RT3 was ridiculously high. I knew i needed something to help immediately but also to get the cells moving enough to make the phone calls to request more thyroid from my body. Part of this decision was also finding something to help eliminate and/or compete better with RT3.

Monotherapy of t3 while it took some mindfulness was probably the best thing i couldve done before adding in ndt. I did this out of fear of worsening my already poor conversion. I used labs to figure out my dosing.

4 months later after working onto two therapies strategically calculates i sit at 1.2ish TSH with better t3 and t4 ranges. Only after getting bloodwork for the 3 months did i make the move to increase my ndt slightly and my t3 slightly

A reason your TSH is low could in theory be an issue of conversion/less than ideal utilization. So if by chance you have a lot of t4 floating around unused or unstored, TSH will be calmed. If you dig around, youll find people with "good" TSH, still feeling like crap and thats probably because other bits and pieces are missing and thus the body is keeping the brakes on.

Another thing is the "warming" you experience may be your body trying to cool off before you sleep. I experience this, my temp falls from 98s into mid/low 97s, i feel physically warm but i do not fall asleep until that sensation of extreme warmth stops despite the temp being 97.5 while feeling it.

I would maybe consider a different ratio of t3/4. That could mean backing off a little of your combo or adding some t3 during the day

I would also consider the timing or splitting it or doing it physiologically like a little crumb here and there during the day and the remainder at night.

What amount are you using right now for your cynoplus?

My most recent thyroid labs (Close to a year ago) resulted in low RT3, low TSH and slightly low t3/t4 levels. The results were probably better then average as TSH was below 1 and reverse T3 was in the low range. I have never had bad thyroid labs. I go more off feel, temps & pulse. My regimen somewhat consistently for 7 months or so was 10-15 mcg t3 and 20 mcg t4 daily at most. My health improved when abiding by this typical Peat/Roddy cynomel and cynoplus dosing from where it was. Thyroid certainly contributed to this improvement, but i am sure nutrition factored in more as I avoid PUFA consistently and eat plenty of good sugars. There were however a couple of issues. Irritability and minor bloating. I have never been fat but t4 added some unwanted thickness and i noticed having a shorter fuse. I have been off T4 for almost a week and feel slightly better. I still take T3 as needed (10-15 MCG a day.) Depends on the day and how much sunlight i get. Pulse has slightly improved without T4 and temps are about the same. I also have lost all water weight that i had (which was just about 2 lbs.)

Nathan Hatch is of the conclusion that t4 supplementation is more risky than t3 due to the supressive nature of t4. He thinks the majority of functionally hypothyroid folks don't have trouble making t4 but struggle with the conversion. He also has cited that it is much easier for the body to make its own T4 through Vitamin C, Aspirin and just raising temps in general. So far through a very limited experience, I personally feel slightly better on just cynomel. Irritability is a terrible symptom even if it is slight. I don't think a reasonable dose of t4 is dangerous and if it makes one feel better than of course one should consume. However, for me, i needed to make a slight adjustment and for the time being it looks like a i made a good one.

 

[johnsmith]

@Jsaute21 How close to the equator are you? With winter approaching, I have been pondering the idea of incorporating some TyroMix into my routine again, to get more T4 into my system, instead of just taking Cynomel during the day and Novothyral at night.

 

[Jsaute21]

@Jsaute21 How close to the equator are you? With winter approaching, I have been pondering the idea of incorporating some TyroMix into my routine again, to get more T4 into my system, instead of just taking Cynomel during the day and Novothyral at night.

In Chicago Illinois so extremely far lol. I am on T4 for the forseeable future but i unfortunately could see myself needing it due to the winters here being absolutely horrible.

 

[ddjd]

@Jsaute21 How close to the equator are you? With winter approaching, I have been pondering the idea of incorporating some TyroMix into my routine again, to get more T4 into my system, instead of just taking Cynomel during the day and Novothyral at night.

why is t4 important in the winter?

 

[johnsmith]

why is t4 important in the winter?

You can only dose so much t3 at once, so many times a day before it becomes exhausting. Adding some t4 can make things easier.

Lack of sun exposure in the winter can increase ones needed thyroid dose. Although, I think I remember hearing Peat say in an interview that sometimes hot weather makes it more difficult to determine if someone is hypothyroid or not. This summer I’m not letting my guard down so much and I’m still supplementing a slightly similar amount as last winter.

 

[ecstatichamster]

You can only dose so much t3 at once, so many times a day before it becomes exhausting. Adding some t4 can make things easier.

Lack of sun exposure in the winter can increase ones needed thyroid dose. Although, I think I remember hearing Peat say in an interview that sometimes hot weather makes it more difficult to determine if someone is hypothyroid or not. This summer I’m not letting my guard down so much and I’m still supplementing a slightly similar amount as last winter.

What do you mean: it becomes exhausting, @johnsmith ?

 

[johnsmith]

What do you mean: it becomes exhausting, @johnsmith ?

I was taking my temperature every hour followed by a small dose of thyroid, in an attempt to get my temps up to 98.8. This was hard to remember to do and it took up a lot of time and mental energy.

Maybe this experience was party due to my fear of taking too much t3 at once. I was confused at the time as to what was giving me a high pulse (it was too much caffeine). So I guess my comment doesnt really apply to others unless they’re making the same mistakes I was.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thanks @johnsmith

Experimenting with taking 25 µg of T3 at once.

Sometimes heart rate is really high, but according to Dr. Wilson if it’s 100 or lower you’re doing OK.

Still taking a grain for Tyromax.