Need For Massive Amounts Of T3? Plus Cough

[Beebop]

I searched for the original quotes of Peat saying 4mcg at a time is best and thought I'd post this here:

"T3, by lowering stress, sometimes reveals a low basal metabolic rate, that was hidden by high stress hormones. The body produces about 4 mcg of T3 per hour, so taking more than that can interfere with regulatory processes." Ray Peat

http://www.dannyroddy.com/main/2011/12/ ... tandi.html

 

[kiran]

Alright. Am I correct in concluding that you take 18 mcg of T4 and 24 of T3 per day, so you have a ratio of 4:3 T3 to T4.

That is correct.

 

[Edward]

I haven't read the entire thread but whatever... I'm sure it's filled with recommendations to take more thyroid and other weird voodoo... I think I saw something about a volcano...

If you noticed coughing, it is an endotoxin issue (especially since one of the sites of endotoxin genocide is the lungs, and that works by exposing the bastards to oxygen radicals pretty clever no?), especially if you are finding you are needing a lot of T3. T4 is being converted to rT3 and you are prone to that with elevated endotoxin.

Needing a lot of T3 indicates that T4 is not being converted properly (to T3) hence needing more T3 to relieve symptoms. And in the context of your symptoms your T4 is being converted to rT3.

Coughing and extra mucous is a good you are taking too much (T4), further elevating the stress hormones (from endotoxin), you will tend to overproduce mucous when lactic acid production is elevated from stress. Endotoxin is also very efficient at causing mucus secretion which can trap lactic acid (acid is irritating) causing a nice cough either from endotoxin and/or lactic acid... probably both.

Endotoxin induces cortisol release, activates the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system (RAAS), wastes sodium (which disturbs calcium channels (causing your cells to take up calcium) which interferes with your mitochondrial estrogen metabolism (CYP450)) and potassium, elevates estrogen which elevates more stress hormones, decreases T3 and T4, and increases rT3. Endotoxin indirectly causes the release of free fatty acids, and if you are PUFA ridden surely contributes to yet another feedback loop.

Batman

 

[j.]

Alright. Am I correct in concluding that you take 18 mcg of T4 and 24 of T3 per day, so you have a ratio of 4:3 T3 to T4.

That is correct.

Is there a reason to take all the T4 at once? Because it has a long half-life and it doesn't matter when you take it? Would it be pretty much the same thing to take all your T4 dose in the morning instead of at night.

 

[Beebop]

Hey Batman. Thanks.

I did think it was probably endotoxin. Sigh. Bloody endotoxin.

Coughing and extra mucous is a good you are taking too much (T4)

Why do you say that? When I started with T3 I reduced my T4 from 137.5 to 125mcg. I experienced sudden cold crashes, memory problems, slow thinking, fatigue, constipation. After two and a half weeks I concluded that I needed to raise my T4 again, which I have done. So I would be grateful if you could explain the above comment, thanks.

I am now taking 5mcg of T3 an hour (on top of T4 in the morning). I've also gone back to the beautiful carrot salad, complete with longitudinal grating

(especially since one of the sites of endotoxin genocide is the lungs, and that works by exposing the bastards to oxygen radicals pretty clever no?)

Do you mean that oxygen is killing the endotoxin? Endotoxin genocide lol.

Any other thoughts about ways to help the cough appreciated.

 

[kiran]

Alright. Am I correct in concluding that you take 18 mcg of T4 and 24 of T3 per day, so you have a ratio of 4:3 T3 to T4.

That is correct.

Is there a reason to take all the T4 at once? Because it has a long half-life and it doesn't matter when you take it? Would it be pretty much the same thing to take all your T4 dose in the morning instead of at night.

Because last time I checked, all that T4 makes me sleepy.

 

[Beebop]

Maybe inhaling something would be good. Carrot fumes (joke).

I have been inhaling eucalyptus oil (which I know isn't Peatian and may be bad, but whatever, it loosened the mucous, and helped me eventually get to sleep).

Air ionizer probably, but ££££££ and scary ozone issues.

 

[Beebop]

A mega-update.

I have FINALLY figured out what is bothering me. (Although I still have the cough right now.)

Ray Peat suggested to me that the T3 supplement itself was the problem, so I stopped taking it. In the meantime I have been taking/trying: charcoal, potato juice, carrots, aspirin, throat steaming, bag breathing, lemon honey ginger drinks, and nothing was helping the cough. At all. They all variously have an effect, but not on the cough. It's been depressing.

Stopping taking the T3, I immediately felt a drop in my stress feelings, and I've been sleeping deeply since then, but absolutely no change in the cough. I was hoping it would leave straight away. Oh well.

So I started taking Progest-E, nervously, and this broke my fatigue and gave me energy again! Yay! But the cough remained exactly the same. Boo.

I don't know why I didn't do this earlier, but I just checked the exipients in the T3 I was taking (they're not on the label):
Liothyronine, Mercury Pharma Group, 20mcg
Lactose BP
Maize starch BP
Acacia powder BP
Sodium chloride BP
Magnesium stearate BP
Industrial methylated spirit BP
Purified water BP

Acacia Powder is also known as Arabic Gum. Uh-oh. I asked Peat if this was likely to be my cough inducer and he said...

Yes, acacia gum is very allergenic. It has taken me two or three weeks to get over symptoms from it, when I accidentally got it in a food. But other irritating foods might keep the symptoms going, so it's good to watch for changes with different foods." Ray Peat

I took this supplement for 45 days so I figure I've still got a couple more weeks of coughing, to go :?

But at least I have an answer (a highly likely answer).

So I also came here to say - UK people DON'T TAKE NHS T3, unless you want to cough for two months straight. And everybody, keep checking for gums. Blech.

 

[Bluebell]

Hi Beebop! Thanks for letting us know. I'd be interested to hear when your cough finally goes.

Those gums are the pits. I was eating ice cream with carrageenan in it before finding Peat, and it was giving me problems.

 

[Beebop]

What kind of problems? It's weird the things you find out through Mr. RP :)
Who'd have thought something with as lovely a name as 'Acacia', that grows on a tree, or 'all-natural' Irish Moss, could be so problematic!

 

[Bluebell]

Ha ha I know such poetic names . It was giving me stomach pains, that was the main thing, and I think that was an allergic reaction that built up slowly and then went away slowly (weeks) when I stopped having the gums. Those gums are just everywhere.

 

[Beebop]

I just checked, and the T4 product I've been taking for several years also contains Arabic Gum.



Levothyroxine, also NHS.

Crap.

 

[4peatssake]

Wow Beebop! What a difficult experience.

I can see even more why Ray is recommending cynoplus and cynomel as the excipients we have to contend with are ridiculous.

So glad you have gotten to the bottom of this, finally. Thank you for letting us know.

 

[Beebop]

Thanks. Am going to need to quickly research another thyroid supplement to take and buy it ASAP.
And I'm thinking when I get it I should swap them over quickly, so I can stop taking the gums. Properly gutted about this. Imagine what our bodies cope with!

I don't suppose anyone knows the quickest way of getting Cynomel and Cynoplus in the UK?

 

[Gabriel]

Coughing still there Beepop? How did things evolve?

 

[forterpride]

A mega-update.

I have FINALLY figured out what is bothering me. (Although I still have the cough right now.)

Ray Peat suggested to me that the T3 supplement itself was the problem, so I stopped taking it. In the meantime I have been taking/trying: charcoal, potato juice, carrots, aspirin, throat steaming, bag breathing, lemon honey ginger drinks, and nothing was helping the cough. At all. They all variously have an effect, but not on the cough. It's been depressing.

Stopping taking the T3, I immediately felt a drop in my stress feelings, and I've been sleeping deeply since then, but absolutely no change in the cough. I was hoping it would leave straight away. Oh well.

So I started taking Progest-E, nervously, and this broke my fatigue and gave me energy again! Yay! But the cough remained exactly the same. Boo.

I don't know why I didn't do this earlier, but I just checked the exipients in the T3 I was taking (they're not on the label):
Liothyronine, Mercury Pharma Group, 20mcg
Lactose BP
Maize starch BP
Acacia powder BP
Sodium chloride BP
Magnesium stearate BP
Industrial methylated spirit BP
Purified water BP

Acacia Powder is also known as Arabic Gum. Uh-oh. I asked Peat if this was likely to be my cough inducer and he said...



I took this supplement for 45 days so I figure I've still got a couple more weeks of coughing, to go :?

But at least I have an answer (a highly likely answer).

So I also came here to say - UK people DON'T TAKE NHS T3, unless you want to cough for two months straight. And everybody, keep checking for gums. Blech.

Hi Beepop. Reading this post has me wodering if the triyotex im taking has gum in it's excipients. How can I find this out because there is nothing on the label besides "excipient cbp". Any assistance in this matter would greatly be appreciated. Thank you.