T4 and multi dosing

[marsaday]

I take t4 and have been on it since 2013. In that time I have struggled with it and have experimented with t3 also.

I stopped using the t3 years ago pretty much and just pushed on with the t4. I eventually worked out any more than 125mg per day was no good for me. If I went to my recommended dose for my weight of 150mg I would feel discomfort in my chest area. A sort of tightness and restricted feeling.

So I stuck with 125mg and took this at bedtime.

Recently I stumbled on a discovery. I ended up taking my t4 split up so I took 50mg one morning only. Later that afternoon I felt pretty good.

So that evening I took 75mg only (not 125) and again 50mg in the morning. So a rough 12hs between dosing.

I am feeling much better generally taking my t4 this way. It has worked so well that I have tried taking 150 per day split into 2 x 75mg doses.

It now seems I can tolerate my full replacement dose. I am still new to using 150 per day so I can’t say for sure I am ok with it but it’s been about 10 days in and so far I am doing very well.

So my discovery might be important for others who take t4. The docs have never said to me anything about split dosing it’s always been take it in one go and you will be good.

I am thinking maybe less of a big hit of t4 is better tolerated and processed better than one lump. I am interested in seeing where my next bloods will be. I should be getting some later in the summer, but I will update here with the results.

It would be interesting to hear if anyone else has had differing results with t4 dosing

 

[sweetpeat]

I also split my t4 dose. I kind of stumbled on it by myself as you did, because as you say, no one really talks about doing it that way. I found that anything over about 75 mcg taken all at once made me feel more hypo. But I knew I needed more based on symptoms and labs. Then I remembered Peat saying something to the effect that the liver sometimes had trouble processing the t4, especially for females. I thought splitting the dose might make the job easier for my liver. It seems to work for me. That was around eight or nine years ago, and I've been doing it that way ever since.

 

[marsaday]

Great. So it is a liver issue (possibly). I have good liver function according to bloods over the years, but it just might be an issue we don't know about.

Still doing good, but I am finding 75 and 50 is better than 75 x 2. So I still have an issue moving up to the 150 mark.

I will stick to 125 total per day and need to get bloods done to see if anything has changed by splitting the T4 dose.

 

[TAG145]

Great. So it is a liver issue (possibly). I have good liver function according to bloods over the years, but it just might be an issue we don't know about.

Still doing good, but I am finding 75 and 50 is better than 75 x 2. So I still have an issue moving up to the 150 mark.

I will stick to 125 total per day and need to get bloods done to see if anything has changed by splitting the T4 dose.

Hello, How are you in general being on only T4 meds? Your weight, energy, temps? Besides feeling worse when you increase over 125 mcg, do you feel like T4 only is addressing your hypo symptoms? I have recently went to T4 only after being on Armour for 20+ years and yet having all the hypo symptoms and labs showing I am not optimal in both T4 and T3. Body temps, weight gain, etc. I also went on compounded T4/T3 thinking it was the additives in Armour adding to my issues, but that was even worse for shakiness and anxiety. Now on T4, 150 mcg, that has went away but still have low body temps, weight struggles, etc. Getting labs rechecked in a couple weeks so we'll see what that does. I recently read that someone mentioned Ray Peat said that he considered T4 as anti-thyroid. I am trying to find the post/article/podcast that was said to verify, but I know he was a strong proponent of T3.

 

[FitnessMike]

Great. So it is a liver issue (possibly). I have good liver function according to bloods over the years, but it just might be an issue we don't know about.

Still doing good, but I am finding 75 and 50 is better than 75 x 2. So I still have an issue moving up to the 150 mark.

I will stick to 125 total per day and need to get bloods done to see if anything has changed by splitting the T4 dose.

how did your t4 dosing progression look like ?

 

[marsaday]

Hello, How are you in general being on only T4 meds? Your weight, energy, temps? Besides feeling worse when you increase over 125 mcg, do you feel like T4 only is addressing your hypo symptoms? I have recently went to T4 only after being on Armour for 20+ years and yet having all the hypo symptoms and labs showing I am not optimal in both T4 and T3. Body temps, weight gain, etc. I also went on compounded T4/T3 thinking it was the additives in Armour adding to my issues, but that was even worse for shakiness and anxiety. Now on T4, 150 mcg, that has went away but still have low body temps, weight struggles, etc. Getting labs rechecked in a couple weeks so we'll see what that does. I recently read that someone mentioned Ray Peat said that he considered T4 as anti-thyroid. I am trying to find the post/article/podcast that was said to verify, but I know he was a strong proponent of T3.

I have done a lot of thyroid protocols since 2012. Tried everything.

T4 (for me) is the best, but it might not be for another person. Tried armour up to 6 grains when I first got going but I was new to it all so went up too fast. It helped, but T4 was better when I moved over to it. Did T3 only as well on this journey. No good really.

Basically my body shuts down when it gets too much thyroid hormone and I think this is as it should be. Some people will go hyper and maybe they have stronger armoury in their other hormonal systems, but for me my body just said no thanks and made me hypo. It took me a long time to understand what was happening but looking back it seems obvious now.

Dr Blanchard (now deceased) has written a few books on thyroid treatment and I like what he feels is the best protocol. T4 and a very small amount of slow release T3 thrown in. His amounts of T3 though are very small. Maybe 1mg per day. 3mg per is quite a big dose. I don't have access to the slow release T3 so have tried normal T3 and usually in 2.5mg per day. T3 used to work really well for me, but only in the small doses. My T3 that I have still is probably 7 yrs old as I don't use it that much and it doesn't do much for me. Can anyone comment if it its likely the T3 has expired ?

So I have been steady for many years on 125mg T4 per day. However I wasn't fully better on it, until more recently. All I do is split the dose up. I am still feeling much better this way. So I have stumbled on one of the last pieces of the jigsaw.

If thyroid meds are not working so well I would say it is likely you are on too much overall. What T4 and T3 amounts were you on ?

Once you get onto a level you are more comfortable with you need to fine tune. So if 150 T4 is your current dose try tweaking that without bringing T3 into it. My biggest lesson is ADJUST ONE THING AT A TIME, and then give a little time before another adjustment. Bloods will help work out the internal picture but how you feel is key.

I would be doing two things in your position now:

1) Move to split dosing 12h apart. So 75mg at bedtime (10pm approx) and then the other 75mg at 10am. See how this goes. I can't imagine you would feel worse doing it this way, but could you feel a little better ?

2) Better or worse, after 10 days drop the T4 down to 125mg and see how you go for 2 weeks. Do you feel worse or any improvement ? Dose 75 at bed and 50 in the morning. You want to test out if you need less T4 this is important. once you have an answer, the next stage will be to look at using a little T3. Based on your response to the T3 you might need less T3, more or non at all.

 

[marsaday]

how did your t4 dosing progression look like ?

I think my reply to the other poster might help you out.

I will add something on bloods. Ft4 is usually not good if it is low in range, but it is ok if it is mid range and for some people top of the range. My FT4 is always top of the range, but when I have new bloods done soon I am wondering if my new protocol will mean the FT4 has dropped a little, showing the body is processing the T4 more effectively (hence the uplift in how I feel).

On FT3 you never want to see this higher in the range. It shows the body is not using it. It wants to be mid range to 70% approx. Ideal bloods for me are Ft4 mid to slightly higher and Ft3 mid to slightly higher. TSH around 1.

 

[TAG145]

I think my reply to the other poster might help you out.

I will add something on bloods. Ft4 is usually not good if it is low in range, but it is ok if it is mid range and for some people top of the range. My FT4 is always top of the range, but when I have new bloods done soon I am wondering if my new protocol will mean the FT4 has dropped a little, showing the body is processing the T4 more effectively (hence the uplift in how I feel).

On FT3 you never want to see this higher in the range. It shows the body is not using it. It wants to be mid range to 70% approx. Ideal bloods for me are Ft4 mid to slightly higher and Ft3 mid to slightly higher. TSH around 1.

Thanks for the details. My FT4 is consistently low-below the range. The low end is 0.8 and I’m 0.7. This was when I was in NDT. I still need to test now that I’m on just thyroxine. I think I will wait to see where the results are on my current dose they try the divided dose. I’ve been on 120 Armour for about 10 years but in the last 5-7 drs were telling me to increase to 180 and 240 based on where my FT3 and FT4 were. I just couldn’t do it with the anxiety getting worse. Finally when I was recovering from a torn labrum I went completely off the meds to experiment and sure enough, temps dropped more and weight, constipation, fatigue, etc. got worse…didn’t think it could get worse-lol. Went this way for about 4 months then dr put me on 90 Armour, then back to 120, then wanted me to do some crazy stuff like skip one day a week. Stopped seeing that dr. Here I am buying my own meds and just using T4.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I doubt blood tests are helpful in average typical cases. I use temps and heart rate. And I agree, dosing T4 multiple times a day is much better. I take my T4 and T3 after each meal.

 

[marsaday]

Thanks for the details. My FT4 is consistently low-below the range. The low end is 0.8 and I’m 0.7. This was when I was in NDT. I still need to test now that I’m on just thyroxine. I think I will wait to see where the results are on my current dose they try the divided dose. I’ve been on 120 Armour for about 10 years but in the last 5-7 drs were telling me to increase to 180 and 240 based on where my FT3 and FT4 were. I just couldn’t do it with the anxiety getting worse. Finally when I was recovering from a torn labrum I went completely off the meds to experiment and sure enough, temps dropped more and weight, constipation, fatigue, etc. got worse…didn’t think it could get worse-lol. Went this way for about 4 months then dr put me on 90 Armour, then back to 120, then wanted me to do some crazy stuff like skip one day a week. Stopped seeing that dr. Here I am buying my own meds and just using T4.

Ok so the fact you stopped thyroid meds and became worse is good evidence you need the meds. Just got to work out the right level and why the body is not able to use it that well. T3 is often the problem in bigger doses and armour gives in T3 in a set dose and you can't lower it. FT4 on armour is lower as your body is using more T3 given to it so it drops conversion and production of T4.

See where bloods are on T4 and go from there with those small changes I have suggested.

 

[EdwardJamesDean]

Thanks for the details. My FT4 is consistently low-below the range. The low end is 0.8 and I’m 0.7. This was when I was in NDT. I still need to test now that I’m on just thyroxine. I think I will wait to see where the results are on my current dose they try the divided dose. I’ve been on 120 Armour for about 10 years but in the last 5-7 drs were telling me to increase to 180 and 240 based on where my FT3 and FT4 were. I just couldn’t do it with the anxiety getting worse. Finally when I was recovering from a torn labrum I went completely off the meds to experiment and sure enough, temps dropped more and weight, constipation, fatigue, etc. got worse…didn’t think it could get worse-lol. Went this way for about 4 months then dr put me on 90 Armour, then back to 120, then wanted me to do some crazy stuff like skip one day a week. Stopped seeing that dr. Here I am buying my own meds and just using T4.

Have you tried T2? I started taking it a couple of months ago and I've seen improvements. You can buy it without an Rx. I used to be cold all the time and since I started taking it, that has gone away.

 

[TAG145]

Have you tried T2? I started taking it a couple of months ago and I've seen improvements. You can buy it without an Rx. I used to be cold all the time and since I started taking it, that has gone away.

I did try T2 and still have some. I was thinking about starting it up again since I read some more good info on it. I was thinking of taking it at night. How/when do you take it? I got it from dr Child’s website. He also is offering a topical version-I think-or will be offering it.

 

[EdwardJamesDean]

I did try T2 and still have some. I was thinking about starting it up again since I read some more good info on it. I was thinking of taking it at night. How/when do you take it? I got it from dr Child’s website. He also is offering a topical version-I think-or will be offering it.

I take it first thing in the morning, 30 minutes before eating anything. After eating, I'll supplement with Selenium, L-Tyrosine & Metabolic Activator by Cellcore. I buy the T2 at Westin's site as well. I haven't tried the topical version, but that might be more beneficial for some. Thanks.

 

[FitnessMike]

once i stopped all supplements besides a small amount of b complex, my resting pulse went up a lot!!