Ray Peat dissed by Dr. Tom Cowan on Patrick Timpone show

[AlaskaJono]

Agreed, nothing against Cowen , whom I actually like and respect and love listening to, but he is simply wrong on the viruses do not exist science. Obviously he relies on the small size of a virus and the difficulty measuring these particles due to their extremely miniscule size. All of Cowen's opinions are based on his stating that there is a lack of evidence that they even exist at all based on the supposed impossibility to detect or scientifically measure these tiny viruses. Ray is correct in my humble opinion not Cowen.

First thanks to all for this important and constructive discussion. My understanding from a RP interview in 2020 (or 2021) is that what RP calls exosomes, the general medical community calls viruses. Full stop. I gathered this from what he said directly and how he approached and answered the ?s. (It may have been with Danny Roddy and Haidut, or PT, can't remember now). And these exosomes are genetic scraps from our own process of dealing with 'toxins' and the breakdown and maintenance of our cells/tissues/organs.

We know historically that for well over 100 years the Rockefeller scientific medical community (and others worldwide for centuries as well) has strongly promoted various disease experimentation with its associated cure or treatment. Ya know, the 'science' of chemicals and IG Farben back in the day. Current technology permits that we can create retro - RNA. CRSPR technology. (Or so we are told). All I know is that I am not interested to imbibe someone else's exosomes or some Silicon Designed exosome via the needle, muchless the poison adjuvants that help 'prove' through science that the substance invigorates the immune system.

My main question or contribution here is "why did we not 'know' that there were so many viral causes of diseases until the last few years vs 50 years ago?" Seems to me that much of the 'science' and the 'treatment' is based on the paradigm of 'Problem/reaction/Solution$$$. This totally distorts any objectivity in scientific observations.

I am very happy with my own exosomes, thank you very much. Good day.

 

[Lollipop2]

Please do not distort what Ray has said. I have had this discussion with Real Neat before. Ray said you can see viruses in the microscope and he gave the example of herpes virus and cold sores. I honestly do not remember the exact show when he discussed it. It is somewhere on the forum. He also acknowledges exosomes. He explained that we are always exchanging exosomes not just when we are sick; but when we breathe.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Please do not distort what Ray has said. I have had this discussion with Real Neat before. Ray said you can see viruses in the microscope and he gave the example of herpes virus and cold sores. I honestly do not remember the exact show when he discussed it. It is somewhere on the forum. He also acknowledges exosomes. He explained that we are always exchanging exosomes not just when we are sick; but when we breathe.

No distortion offered here, if I can help it. Please excuse me if I do.

I do remember clearly that when a question was asked to Ray regarding viruses, he answered with 'exosomes' and did not use the word viruses. And he continued to use the term exosomes for most of that interview. So to me for the rest of that interview he was flexible/interchangeable with the usage of the terms. I am not saying anything pertaining to viruses being seen with microscopes and therefore are proven to exist.

 

[yerrag]

No distortion offered here, if I can help it. Please excuse me if I do.

I do remember clearly that when a question was asked to Ray regarding viruses, he answered with 'exosomes' and did not use the word viruses. And he continued to use the term exosomes for most of that interview. So to me for the rest of that interview he was flexible/interchangeable with the usage of the terms. I am not saying anything pertaining to viruses being seen with microscopes and therefore are proven to exist.

To see is to believe. That's why we have these high powered microscopes for. Yet no virus can be isolated and seen.

Even Stefan Lanka couldn't entice any virologist to take up his $100,000 challenge successfully proving that virus exist, following established norms of scientific inquiry.

On this basis, there is no virus.

But what we have are ad hoc committees connected to the Nobel Foundation giving Enders a Nobel Prize to give virus a virtual existence. Notwithstanding that his experiment proving a virus exists wasn't even replicated and verified. The Talmudist press and institutions declare virus a fact, and so the entire worldwide mass accepts this, no matter how much made up it is.

There are alternate theories on what passes up as a virus could be. Exosomes is one. Pleomorphism is another. But these don't have the cachet of being a mystery. And most of all, they take away the invisibility cloak that makes it easy to invent bigger hoaxes.

The worst hoax is merging the big bad wolf with an invisibility cloak and call it a scary virus. Without that invisibility, it would just be a big bad wolf. It would be a known element so it is very easy to deal with and hard to blindside us with.

 

[RealNeat]

No distortion offered here, if I can help it. Please excuse me if I do.

I do remember clearly that when a question was asked to Ray regarding viruses, he answered with 'exosomes' and did not use the word viruses. And he continued to use the term exosomes for most of that interview. So to me for the rest of that interview he was flexible/interchangeable with the usage of the terms. I am not saying anything pertaining to viruses being seen with microscopes and therefore are proven to exist.

Here, I'll help you and @Lollipop2, listen to this interview and honestly tell me if Ray doesn't think that viruses are at most exosomes and at the very least not a problem in a properly functioning body. Considering exosomes would be productions of our own cells, this literally makes the entire concept/ mainstream philosophy of viruses obsolete.

https://www.toxinless.com/kmud-190315-viruses.mp3

I have issues with exosomes too, as the isolation techniques are also questionable (Exosomes: Fact or Fiction?), but I'm open to the idea of Gemmules and the "third circulatory system." I think communication between cells has many avenues, one of which is particles and to other people also.

To claim this causes disease is another thing entirely.

I'm not distorting anything, if I'm being honest it's Ray who confuses with his interchangeable language likely because of this garbage (“Viruses” or Exosomes?), but overwhelmingly he has referred to them as exosomes and frequently tells the story of him asking his professors "where did viruses come from?" With them unwilling to answer.

 

[RealNeat]

@Lollipop2 the reason I'll never agree with you that Ray agrees with the concept of Viruses as presented by the mainstream is because he doesn't.

To me, you attributing that to Ray is the same way you perceive me attributing "no virus" ideology to Ray. He may state viruses occasionally but when you listen to the context he presents them in they are not the same definition.

I've never said Ray doesn't believe in viruses altogether, full stop. I've always provided context and an explanation as to why there is more to the story.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Here, I'll help you and @Lollipop2, listen to this interview and honestly tell me if Ray doesn't think that viruses are at most exosomes and at the very least not a problem in a properly functioning body. Considering exosomes would be productions of our own cells, this literally makes the entire concept/ mainstream philosophy of viruses obsolete.

I completely agree with this and I haven't even re-listened to this link. I will though.... and thank you.

I also know for sure that cells/tissues/organs have different ways of Communication. I am an acupuncturist! A simple device we played with as students in 1989 just measures electrical resistance in ohms. Acu points are found where there is less resistance = more flow. There is no physical pathway, just electrical. From surficial points on the skin leading to the associated organs. Just because one doesn't believe in it doesn't mean that it does not exist. And it works on animals. Do they believe? Anyhow I digress.

 

[AlaskaJono]

Here, I'll help you and @Lollipop2, listen to this interview and honestly tell me if Ray doesn't think that viruses are at most exosomes and at the very least not a problem in a properly functioning body. Considering exosomes would be productions of our own cells, this literally makes the entire concept/ mainstream philosophy of viruses obsolete.

Yes, Totally agree on this. Ray used the term Microzymes this time instead of Exosomes. Archaic English term meaning pathogenic bacterium or micro organism that causes or propogates contagious diseases. The interviewer uses the term virus, But in CONTEXT Ray answers him. And absolutely Ray is saying the Terrain - our particular state of cellular metabolism can deal with other people's microzymes (exosomes) or their viruses if we are in Good Form. If not then we may become ill.

IMO Ray is not relating to the term virus the same way that the interviewer (or as generally diktated by the Medical Colleges). Ray is more Terrior than the dude is. I mean this interviewer described in the beginning of the whole thing that viruses do not want to destroy the host because then they cannot survive. How can a non -sentient mechanism, viruses are not alive, want or not want? Oh well. He is in Mendocino County (Redwood territory)....

 

[Eee]

I've watched the 'Exposing Tom Clowan' GigaOhmBiological and the "Debunking the Nonsense" presentations. Seems like a bunch of logical fallacies on both ends. GigaOhmBiological is ad hominem attacks and straw men. The Debunking one is 2 hours of 'begging the question' and basically: 'You can't use that method to isolate a "virus"'. Have some larger cells have been isolated using those methods? Obviously there is something going on. If these 2 groups are so educated on the subject, they should tell us what these substances really are and win their Nobel prize. Otherwise, we will ignore this crap-fest and stick to metabolic improvement.

 

[RealNeat]

I've watched the 'Exposing Tom Clowan' GigaOhmBiological and the "Debunking the Nonsense" presentations. Seems like a bunch of logical fallacies on both ends. GigaOhmBiological is ad hominem attacks and straw men. The Debunking one is 2 hours of 'begging the question' and basically: 'You can't use that method to isolate a "virus"'. Have some larger cells have been isolated using those methods? Obviously there is something going on. If these 2 groups are so educated on the subject, they should tell us what these substances really are and win their Nobel prize. Otherwise, we will ignore this crap-fest and stick to metabolic improvement.

Thanks for taking the time to watch both. Seems like an endeavor few are willing to take. I agree with the logical aspect of your opinion but not the fallacy part. If you want I can help clarify specific points you have against the virus isolation issue.

Here is Poornima Whag PhD rejecting the cell culture method of "isolation" and performing the literal method (in respect to the word isolation) in SARSCOV2 infected (PCR verified..lol) samples and her results. Spoiler, nothing turned up except being raided and shut down.


View: https://www.bitchute.com/video/btuJXs0glmla/