No Excess Deaths In Sweden In 2020 Compared To The Last 10 Years

[jb116]

I don't see excess death and as spoken about before, other things including misreporting contribute. But I also now find myself asking why does some "excess" death even matter anyway, ultimately? It's not majority death. In other words, other things too can contribute to "excess" death, we never shut the world down for it. It seems to be revealing itself as a squabble.

 

[Kram]

Am I missing something or do you actually consider this an argument?

My point was why am I supposed to believe one forum member vs. another when I have no idea who they are, not that I agree or disagree with either of them.

 

[Kram]

At least a third (35%+) of those excess deaths in the US are probably NOT caused by COVID-19. And that is the average number across all 50 states. In some states, more than 50% of the excess deaths for 2020 were NOT due to COVID-19, yet nobody has ever brought this up on any major news outlet.
1 in 3 excess deaths in the US not directly caused by COVID-19
"...Healthcare disruption and emotional crises may have led to around a third of the 225,530 “excess deaths” in the United States between March 1 and August 1, 2020, a new study suggests."

"...Between March 1, 2020, and April 25, 2020, a total of 505 059 deaths were reported in the US; 87 001 (95% CI, 86 578-87 423) were excess deaths, of which 56 246 (65%) were attributed to COVID-19. In 14 states, more than 50% of excess deaths were attributed to underlying causes other than COVID-19; these included California (55% of excess deaths) and Texas (64% of excess deaths) (Table). The 5 states with the most COVID-19 deaths experienced large proportional increases in deaths due to nonrespiratory underlying causes, including diabetes (96%), heart diseases (89%), Alzheimer disease (64%), and cerebrovascular diseases (35%) (Figure). New York City experienced the largest increases in nonrespiratory deaths, notably those due to heart disease (398%) and diabetes (356%)."

Table with both COVID-19 and non-COVID-19 excess deaths across states.
Excess Deaths From COVID-19 and Other Causes, March-April 2020
Excess Deaths From COVID-19 and Other Causes, March-July 2020


@Hugh Johnson @tankasnowgod @Giraffe

This appears to be in line with what the CDC says.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf

"Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths have occurred in the United States from late January through October 3, 2020, with two thirds of these attributed to COVID-19."

 

[jb116]

This appears to be in line with what the CDC says.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf

"Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths have occurred in the United States from late January through October 3, 2020, with two thirds of these attributed to COVID-19."

Impossible to say accurately, since there were double reports of individuals.

 

[tankasnowgod]

My point was why am I supposed to believe one forum member vs. another when I have no idea who they are, not that I agree or disagree with either of them.

That's the beauty of being anonymous. Our arguments have to stand on their own. You don't have to know anything about me to look at the D.G. Rancourt study I posted, and make your own judgments.

I'll ask again, can you like to some of the evidence that you were talking about in your previous comments?

 

[Kram]

That's the beauty of being anonymous. Our arguments have to stand on their own. You don't have to know anything about me to look at the D.G. Rancourt study I posted, and make your own judgments.

I'll ask again, can you like to some of the evidence that you were talking about in your previous comments?

It's what the CDC data shows? Not sure what else I am supposed to rely on. See Georgi's previous post for additional sources since he is credible. Is the data perfect? No. What role do the lockdowns have in all this? I have no idea (although you could maybe say they are responsible for 1/3 of the excess mortality in the US if 2/3 is from covid). Are the tests 100% reliable? No, but neither are pregnancy tests or many other diagnostic tests. I don't doubt there are some conspiracies related to covid, but to me, the evidence appears to show that the actual virus is real. I don't think this is some radical perspective.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf

IHME | COVID-19 Projections

 

[haidut]

This appears to be in line with what the CDC says.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf

"Overall, an estimated 299,028 excess deaths have occurred in the United States from late January through October 3, 2020, with two thirds of these attributed to COVID-19."

If the lockdowns/restrictions continue, by January 2021, the majority of those excess deaths will NOT be related to COVID-19. Will that change your mind as to whether shutting down most countries around the world was worth it? What percentage of excess deaths not related to COVID-19 do you think is a threshold, above which we declare the lockdowns/isolations a failure (and possibly one of genocidal proportions)?
Btw, can you please show me where on mainstream media you have seen ANY mention about that 1/3 (and growing) share of non-COVID-19 deaths? Yes, CDC published those stats but where have you seen a big scary counter of excess deaths, separated in COVID-19-related and non-COVID-19-related and ominously increasing both numbers on a daily basis with journalists jumping over each other to inflate the panic over either number even more?
I think you see where I am going with this. While there may be some virus going around, everything publicly broadcasted about it - from its lethality, to the appropriate restriction measure, to even vaccines - has been politicized to no end, with very clear benefits for the elite and devastating consequences for all regular people. Do you think those ~200K excess deaths (if indeed real) justify destroying the entire country? No body ever gave people the chance to discuss the pros/cons of how to handle the pandemic, or at least explain that there are very tangible costs in terms of loss of life (~100K+, so far) associated with the option imposed on us (without ANY debate).
CNN: Covid-19 Death Rate Is Under 1% For Everyone But People Over 70
Pre-existing COVID-19 Immunity In 20%-50% Of People - Better Than Vaccines?
COVID-19 Vaccine Trials Are Essentially Pointless
Canadian PM Just Confirmed The "Great Reset" Is Not A Conspiracy
The Fed - The Old Economy, As We Know It, Is Probably Gone
YouTube Will Soon Start Banning COVID-19 Contrarian Videos
People Who Refuse The COVID-19 Vaccine May Be Banned Socially
DC Law Now Allows Secret Vaccinations Of Children

Btw, look at the last 2 links above (especially the last one). Does that give you any pause about the whole COVID-19 pandemic and what it is being used for? Or do you think each one of those 8 links above has a perfectly benign explanation and nothing is out of the ordinary?
The exact same rationale - fear (of terrorism, at the time) - was used back in early 2000s to begin the implementation of the police state. It is the exact same protocol, except this time the enemy is invisible and instead of Al-Qaeda they called it COVID-19. Again, bits and pieces of it are probably real. But it is nothing like the beast we are being told it is. None of the civil liberties lost since 9/11 have ever been regained. They continue to be eroded (see last 3 links above), and looking back in retrospect, the whole "terrorism" thing was basically a cover for introducing "Surveillance Capitalism" as an economic model in most developed economies.
Surveillance capitalism - Wikipedia

Now, COVID-19 (which does seem to have SOME basis in reality) is being used to usher in the complete digitization of economies, societies, and life in general. I just don't see see what good would come out of this whole process...even if we give a HUGE benefit of the doubt and accept COVID-19 pandemic as real and dangerous.

So, my take on COVID-19 - we've simply been had, just like after 9/11. A real, but not nearly as dangerous as described, event/entity is being used to continue to enslave us until we will basically be paying for the privilege of breathing.

 

[tankasnowgod]

It's what the CDC data shows? Not sure what else I am supposed to rely on.

Well, maybe an agency that hasn't been caught red handed faking data when it comes to these types of media pandemics.

Swine Flu Cases Overestimated?

"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?"


I've already pointed out how that paper you linked from Rossen, et al. starts off with a blatant lie, that being-

"As of October 15, 216,025 deaths from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) have been reported in the United States*"

The lie, of course, is the claim of causality. The source for that claim is " *CDC official counts of cases and deaths are released daily at https://covid.cdc. gov/covid-data-tracker/." Dr. Birx and others have told you time and time again that they are taking a very liberal approach to writing COVID down on the death certificate, so that they can literally list any death as a COVID death, including people who die from a gunshot or motorcycle crash.

Bottom line, nothing you mentioned is evidence that excess deaths this year is caused by an unproven common cold an flu virus.

 

[Kram]

If the lockdowns/restrictions continue, by January 2021, the majority of those excess deaths will NOT be related to COVID-19. Will that change your mind as to whether shutting down most countries around the world was worth it?

When did I ever say we should be shutting down countries for the virus? I am heavily against lockdowns. I totally agree with your other points and have read all of those threads.

 

[Kram]

Well, maybe an agency that hasn't been caught red handed faking data when it comes to these types of media pandemics.

Swine Flu Cases Overestimated?

"In late July, the CDC abruptly advised states to stop testing for H1N1 flu, and stopped counting individual cases. The rationale given for the CDC guidance to forego testing and tracking individual cases was: why waste resources testing for H1N1 flu when the government has already confirmed there's an epidemic?"


I've already pointed out how that paper you linked from Rossen, et al. starts off with a blatant lie, that being-

"As of October 15, 216,025 deaths from coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) have been reported in the United States*"

The lie, of course, is the claim of causality. The source for that claim is " *CDC official counts of cases and deaths are released daily at https://covid.cdc. gov/covid-data-tracker/." Dr. Birx and others have told you time and time again that they are taking a very liberal approach to writing COVID down on the death certificate, so that they can literally list any death as a COVID death, including people who die from a gunshot or motorcycle crash.

Bottom line, nothing you mentioned is evidence that excess deaths this year is caused by an unproven common cold an flu virus.

Cool, your opinion means nothing to me.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Cool, your opinion means nothing to me.

And yours to me. I just wanted to know what evidence you were referring to, and I don't think the CDC stat tracker establishes that any excess deaths this year were caused by COVID. So it seems your opinion is on a very weak foundation.

Funny, I don't think I really stated any opinions in that earlier comment, but really facts that can be confirmed or denied.

Like the fact that the CDC has faked data in the past.

And the fact that they count deaths WITH COVID, not FROM it.

 

[Kram]

And yours to me. I just wanted to know what evidence you were referring to, and I don't think the CDC stat tracker establishes that any excess deaths this year were caused by COVID. So it seems your opinion is on a very weak foundation.

Funny, I don't think I really stated any opinions in that earlier comment, but really facts that can be confirmed or denied.

Like the fact that the CDC has faked data in the past.

And the fact that they count deaths WITH COVID, not FROM it.

Thanks for your advice, @tankasnowgod. I've used the ignore button for years for members such as yourself. I've found that it has limited usefulness.

You not posting lies and other BS would be my preferred outcome.

You won't see this reply, but simply ignoring you does nothing to mitigate the ignorance and harm you propagate among other forum members.

I ask that @charlie and the other moderators consider the matter.

@tankasnowgod I remain of the opinion that you are not very smart, or very honest. The gibberish in the study you first cite is just that, gibberish. It lacks any coherence of thought and fact.

This is pure, unmitigated, horse manure. And a good example of why I think @tankasnowgod is an unreliable poster and should be banned from the RP forum. IIRC, @tankasnowgod posted the exact same message several months ago and hasn't learned a single thing since then.

China, and most everyone else in the world, used CT scans as a preliminary screening step to avoid pneumonia patients from being diagnosed as Covid-19 patients. CT scans of pneumonia patients show a glassy, bilateral image of the lungs (meaning both lungs look the same). Covid-19 patients don't present the same way.

China, and most everyone else in the world, followed up the CT scans with testing for Covid-19. And in untold numbers of times. IMO, @tankasnowgod relates an utterly delusional narrative of the facts.

Couldn't agree with @BingDing more.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Couldn't agree with @BingDing more.

Fair, but if you think that I lied about the CDC faking data in the past, or the fact that the CDC does indeed count deaths FROM Covid as opposed to WITH it, then why not just show your proof?

 

[tankasnowgod]

When did I ever say we should be shutting down countries for the virus?

You were literally on board with lockdowns since March.

New cases have slowed because the city has been on lockdown. And if this spreads among the elderly too quickly, many would require hospitalization (guessing) which would strain the healthcare system.

Quite an assumption? Seems like common sense to me and not sure how you could argue that limiting human to human contact would limit transmission? But good day

 

[Kram]

You were literally on board with lockdowns since March.

I don't believe those posts say we should be shutting down countries or enforcing lockdowns?

I also had these same questions. Comparing to prior years, excess mortality is ~330k based on the below data. While I don't agree with anything that has to do with lockdowns or social distancing, I recently had covid and it was probably the worst (and strangest) illness I have dealt with.

I am by no means supporting lockdowns but CDC says there have been 298K excess deaths through October 3rd this year and 198K of those have been due to covid.

No need to respond. I didn't have a chance to ignore all the utter BS you post but will be doing so now.

 

[tankasnowgod]

By the way, me from the same thread-

Don't know what that prediction is based on, but the 40-70% prediction is insane. It probably won't be based on "testing" since I doubt even 40 million people will bother with that test. Even in Wuhan, the epicenter, the temporary hospitals have been removed, because new cases have slowed, and the vast majority have recovered. The idea that it will put "tremendous strain" on the healthcare system isn't too likely. There might be a few cities that have issues in a few area for week or so (as frequently happens), but nothing staggering, certainly not hundreds of thousands in hospitals all around the country.

Ha, well, I may have been wrong about the 40 Million, (really didn't see airlines and employers requiring that test) but no hospital has been overloaded by "the virus," only by laying off or furloughing workers. Most hospitals still appear to be UNDER utilized, compared to rational years like 2019 and before.

There was no "tremendous strain," and no one did a better job dispelling that prophecy AT THE END OF APRIL than Governor Ron DeSantis of Florida (starting at the 7 minute mark)-



Everyone who believes in COVID should be forced to watch from 7:00 to 12:00 of that speech at least 40 times. There was never anything close to the size of the threat that the prophecy foretold.

This just appears to be another over hyped fake pandemic.

Still 100,000% agree with this part, especially in bold.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I don't believe those posts say we should be shutting down countries or enforcing lockdowns?

You claimed that lockdowns had benefits. How could it even be possible for them to slow or stop a virus when they were instituted one full year (at least) after the virus had been circulating?

Coronavirus traces found in March 2019 sewage sample, Spanish study shows

 

[Hugh Johnson]

My point was why am I supposed to believe one forum member vs. another when I have no idea who they are, not that I agree or disagree with either of them.

Do you understand the concept of "an argument"? I'm not being facetious here. Do you actually not see the difference between one party making a case based on scientific research and the other responding with a personal attack ?

 

[Kram]

Do you understand the concept of "an argument"? I'm not being facetious here. Do you actually not see the difference between one party making a case based on scientific research and the other responding with a personal attack ?

Do you understand there is also scientific research that is completely contrary to the study posted in that thread? You admitted you don't even understand the statistical arguments being made in the report, yet you simply believe it because it fits your covid 'narritive'.

Here is an example of one report (although I'm not sure you can understand it).

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf

 

[tankasnowgod]

Do you understand there is also scientific research that is completely contrary to the study posted in that thread? You admitted you don't even understand the statistical arguments being made in the report, yet you simply believe it because it fits your covid 'narritive'.

Here is an example of one report (although I'm not sure you can understand it).

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/pdfs/mm6942e2-H.pdf

Yeah, keep on posting the Rossen et al. repot that starts off first sentence with a lie that cites the CDC statracker for data they literally don't collect.