Multiple Antibiotics At Once Or Spearately?

[TheBeard]

What is the most effective protocole if I intend to take:
- Xifaxan
- Augmentin
- Azithromycin

to take care of SIBO and gut endotoxins?

One course of ALL these antibiotics together?

Or separate one week courses one after the other individually?


I have no idea how antibiotics behave and whether taking them together will lessen each’s effect because some « receptors » are already occupied, like hormones.


@haidut @Amazoniac

 

[TheBeard]

Bump

 

[TheBeard]

Bump

 

[Inaut]

i've read that taking bromelain with certain supplements, including antibiotics, increasing effectiveness. I've started supplementing with it recently and really like it. I also love pineapples but can't depend on bromelain content unless I'm eating unripe ones (which I'm not)

 

[TheBeard]

i've read that taking bromelain with certain supplements, including antibiotics, increasing effectiveness. I've started supplementing with it recently and really like it. I also love pineapples but can't depend on bromelain content unless I'm eating unripe ones (which I'm not)

I don’t want the antibiotics to be absorbed, I want to nuke my gut bacteria count

 

[ilikecats]

I’m not sure there’s any point in thinking that way (not that you shouldn’t use anti biotics). Your gut bacteria will just come back in a few weeks (guesstamite) and there’s some bacteria that they won’t kill anyways. And all anti biotics are slightly toxic (rays mentioned this) so i think it’s best to use the minimum dose you need for a short amount of time. I just started experimenting with penicillin and the first dose felt amazing but I kept dosing every few hours for a few days and by the end my temps decreased and I felt shitty (I don’t think there should be a “detox” reaction and I don’t think that’s what that was). But I’ll go back to a small dose in a week or two and keep doing that for maybe forever. It’s about pushing things gently in the right direction (to avoid toxicity and possibly too rapid changes in gut bacteria (my speculation)) in my mind and you have to keep doing that if you really want things to be optimal but one course could cause relatively permanent positive changes if there’s a major issue (my speculation: not if the gut is relatively healthy and you’re just trying to make it more sterile to optimize things). And ray uses foods that have anti biotic properties everyday like CO and the carrot salad and those are safe to use every day (I use them and think they’re essential for moving toward a more sterile gut in a safe and effective manner). I’m not familiar with those anti biotics you mentioned. Ray says (if that matters to you) that penicillin, erthyromycin, and tetracycline (and some of the derivatives like minocyline) are the safest antibiotics with the least toxicity. Please keep us updated with your experiences if you end up trying to swing for the fences, I’d like to hear more anecdotes of anti biotics usage. Keeping bowel transit time fast would help to keep the relatively sterile state of the gut after a large course of anti biotics.

 

[Vinny]

I’d like to hear more anecdotes of anti biotics usage.

After a several decades long pause of using antibiotics, I decided to give it a go.
I`ve been taking Doxycycline 2 x 50 mg for about a month or more.
It completely eradicated my acne so far.
Still having some gut issues though. Could be, the dose is low or the type of the drug. Could be Candida/fungus/virus..... I don`t know. But I like the no acne effect quite much.

 

[ilikecats]

@Vinny cool, thanks! I’d like to try some anti biotics from the tetracycline family soon.

 

[TheBeard]

I’m not sure there’s any point in thinking that way (not that you shouldn’t use anti biotics). Your gut bacteria will just come back in a few weeks (guesstamite) and there’s some bacteria that they won’t kill anyways. And all anti biotics are slightly toxic (rays mentioned this) so i think it’s best to use the minimum dose you need for a short amount of time. I just started experimenting with penicillin and the first dose felt amazing but I kept dosing every few hours for a few days and by the end my temps decreased and I felt shitty (I don’t think there should be a “detox” reaction and I don’t think that’s what that was). But I’ll go back to a small dose in a week or two and keep doing that for maybe forever. It’s about pushing things gently in the right direction (to avoid toxicity and possibly too rapid changes in gut bacteria (my speculation)) in my mind and you have to keep doing that if you really want things to be optimal but one course could cause relatively permanent positive changes if there’s a major issue (my speculation: not if the gut is relatively healthy and you’re just trying to make it more sterile to optimize things). And ray uses foods that have anti biotic properties everyday like CO and the carrot salad and those are safe to use every day (I use them and think they’re essential for moving toward a more sterile gut in a safe and effective manner). I’m not familiar with those anti biotics you mentioned. Ray says (if that matters to you) that penicillin, erthyromycin, and tetracycline (and some of the derivatives like minocyline) are the safest antibiotics with the least toxicity. Please keep us updated with your experiences if you end up trying to swing for the fences, I’d like to hear more anecdotes of anti biotics usage. Keeping bowel transit time fast would help to keep the relatively sterile state of the gut after a large course of anti biotics.

Thanks.

Penicillin has been around for almost a century, so most bacteria have become resistant to it, it’s completely moot to use it nowadays.

Bacteria count is supposed to be as low as possible in the small intestine, which is not my case (SIBO in case you missed that), and supposedly higher in the gut, which is the normal state of things.

So I don’t see why that state of homeostasis should be any different once I’ve restored it with a course of antibiotics that will normalize the bacteria count in the small intestine, given that my peristaltism is completely normal.

If you are «not familiar with the antibiotics I mentioned » you can quickly search them before answering my query :)

 

[ilikecats]

Yes I’m aware that the small intensitine should ideally be mostly sterile but I think there’s more reasonable ways of going about this and it will just repopulate with bacteria if the diet isnt right (to varying extents depending on various factors). It’s probably a constant struggle to keep it completely sterile everything has to be ideal, SIBO is bacterial overgrowth emphasis on over. What’s “normal” peristalsis? Some people think one BM a day is normal.

“Penicillin has been around for almost a century, so most bacteria have become resistant to it, it’s completely moot to use it nowadays.” I don’t think that’s an accurate representation of reality at all. Lots of people use penicillin with success. It took Danny Roddy from being completely unable to digest milk to digesting a gallon perfectly.

I don’t have any context for evaluating the effects of those anti biotics so don’t get salty about me not looking them up, I’m the only one who responded. Me looking them up isn’t doing much- theyre anti biotics... one of them is an erythromycin derivative...people take them some have good experiences I’m not gonna research them in depth just to respond to this thread. Like I said there all somewhat toxic so it’s best to start small (i think and ray thinks) and one’s with the best safety track record (if you think that’s these than fine). Obviously there’s traditional dosing protocols and dosages for these anti biotics on line but ray almost always recommends shorter courses and lower dosages. So I’m not sure what your going for because you don’t seem particularly interested in Rays approach to this but you tagged Haidut who follows most of Ray’s recommendations to the letter. But obviously one line of thinking (pretty much the mainstream) is hit hard with big dosages for a lengthy course of at least 10 days due to fear of antibiotic resistante bacteria, which ray doesn’t subscribe to. But anyways I don’t know if there’s a problem with taking these all at once if you’re going to take them lots of people are prescribed multiple anti biotics at once and I’ve seen ray recommend taking two anti biotics at once. And for the record I’m not saying that you can’t get rid of SIBO with a course of anti biotics but there’s a decent chance that it won’t be the last time you have to deal with it and if you really want the small intestine to be as sterile as possible you have to pull out all the stops consistently.

 

[redsun]

Thanks.

Penicillin has been around for almost a century, so most bacteria have become resistant to it, it’s completely moot to use it nowadays.

Bacteria count is supposed to be as low as possible in the small intestine, which is not my case (SIBO in case you missed that), and supposedly higher in the gut, which is the normal state of things.

So I don’t see why that state of homeostasis should be any different once I’ve restored it with a course of antibiotics that will normalize the bacteria count in the small intestine, given that my peristaltism is completely normal.

If you are «not familiar with the antibiotics I mentioned » you can quickly search them before answering my query :)

Well you have to understand why you get SIBO in the first place. Low thyroid = weak/inadequate stomach acid which means increased likelihood of not killing bacteria in food and food is not digested fully, feeding bacteria further and colonizing in the small intestine. Unless your stomach acid is strong enough there is nothing stopping bacteria from repopulating the small intestine just like before.

 

[TheBeard]

Obviously there’s traditional dosing protocols and dosages for these anti biotics on line but ray almost always recommends shorter courses and lower dosages. So I’m not sure what your going for because you don’t seem particularly interested in Rays approach to this but you tagged Haidut who follows most of Ray’s recommendations to the letter.

I never mentioned any dosage, I’m open about them.

Roddy could have had the same milk digestion improvement with Amoxicillin, who knows.

 

[TheBeard]

Well you have to understand why you get SIBO in the first place. Low thyroid = weak/inadequate stomach acid which means increased likelihood of not killing bacteria in food and food is not digested fully, feeding bacteria further and colonizing in the small intestine. Unless your stomach acid is strong enough there is nothing stopping bacteria from repopulating the small intestine just like before.

Thanks.

My question is mainly whether antibiotics are stronger together, not weather I should take them or not.

 

[ilikecats]

Thanks.

My question is mainly whether antibiotics are stronger together, not weather I should take them or not.

Yes, I think they are stronger when taken together, but some people think it’s not a good idea.

Combining Antibiotics May Backfire

 

[redsun]

Thanks.

My question is mainly whether antibiotics are stronger together, not weather I should take them or not.

I just think its important to understand all the trouble you may go through for clearing the gut of bacteria may only work temporarily if the main cause of SIBO isnt kept in check

 

[TheBeard]

I just think its important to understand all the trouble you may go through for clearing the gut of bacteria may only work temporarily if the main cause of SIBO isnt kept in check

As far as I have read, not many troubles in sight.
I will be constantly taking Nystatin to counter any candida that would creep up, and castor oil twice a week to completely flush dead bacterias and limit endotoxins

 

[TheBeard]

@haidut

As far as minimizing gut bacteria to limit endotoxins, would it be better to take penicillin and doxicycline on empty stomachs?

The leaflets mention to take them with food to increase absorption, but absorption is not our goal here, we want a localized gut action.