Men With Higher Levels Of Serum Testosterone Have Lower-status Occupations

[lvysaur]

Makes sense. An inherently sexually desirable man has less need for social status. A less sexually desirable man has more need for it.

The men who lack both tend to die out every generation, and the men who have both go on to become CEOs and bosses.

 

[Sepulchrave]

Uh no, higher levels of serum testosterone does not make one inherently sexually desirable, and testosterone levels can vary over days depending on diet, sleep, stress, exercise, sunlight exposure, exposure to environmental toxins, etc.

The way you think is materialistic reductionism of the most loathsome kind.

 

[DaveFoster]

You are missing a neurological difference here. Women become more meticulous with stress, men less. Which is obviously helpful in school.

Interesting point. I'm not sure that men become less meticulous, but I'm not confident on a query that would return what I'm looking for (in PubMed for example.) Even if both genders tend to become more meticulous (as with OCD), then the degree would be greater for women since they react more severely to stress.

 

[Madato]

Testosterone and Occupational Achievement* | Social Forces | Oxford Academic

Testosterone and Occupational Achievement * | Social Forces | Oxford Academic

Testosterone levels or even free testosterone levels, as well as DHT levels mean **** all.

It’s the local activity of these hormones in the tissues and how they are converted into active metabolites that matter.

We all have hormones in range.

Some with above normal range hormones will look and behave like females.

Some with average levels will have caveman faces, with thick hairy forearms, and an urge to have sex all the time.

That’s because their receptors are more sensitive and hormones are actively metabolized.

Look at Chinese vs Turkish

Same hormone levels on the paper.
One people looks like effeminate eunuchs, the others like the manliest of men

Metabolites. Receptors.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Testosterone levels or even free testosterone levels, as well as DHT levels mean **** all.

It’s the local activity of these hormones in the tissues and how they are converted into active metabolites that matter.

We all have hormones in range.

Some with above normal range hormones will look and behave like females.

Some with average levels will have caveman faces, with thick hairy forearms, and an urge to have sex all the time.

That’s because their receptors are more sensitive and hormones are actively metabolized.

Look at Chinese vs Turkish

Same hormone levels on the paper.
One people looks like effeminate eunuchs, the others like the manliest of men

Metabolites. Receptors.

Turks tend to be short, hairy and either skinny or fat. The Chinese are not that manly either. So which is which?

 

[Madato]

Turks tend to be short, hairy and either skinny or fat. The Chinese are not that manly either. So which is which?

Since when tall is manly?

You need to seriously redefine your criterias.

A bunch of women-looking pale-faced asians with elongated fingers, slender arms who don’t weight a buck o five, who shout when they are not happy and kneel to their wives, playing video games all day long and fearing the real world.

Vs the manliest of all middle easterns, thick arms, short hairy fingers, calm and collected tempers, assertive

 

[bdawg]

Since when tall is manly?

You need to seriously redefine your criterias.

A bunch of women-looking pale-faced asians with elongated fingers, slender arms who don’t weight a buck o five, who shout when they are not happy and kneel to their wives, playing video games all day long and fearing the real world.

Vs the manliest of all middle easterns, thick arms, short hairy fingers, calm and collected tempers, assertive

From a DHT perspective the Middle-East and the Levant have a very androgenic appearance suggesting relatively high androgen utilisation as @Madato has referred to

African Americans in a similar vein are known for relatively high anabolism

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

exactly, testosterone and low intelligence perhaps. Whereas testosterone and high intelligence is associated with corporate and financial success

I read that high testosterone was found among both the highest sector of men and the lowest. Prison inmates and the money men on wall street both have high testosterone, which drives them to seek high social rank via any means necessary. In the one case it pushes them to commit crimes and get arrested. In the other case it pushes them to commit crimes and get rewarded.

Meanwhile low T men are middling in the middle somewhere, unsatisfied with their lives but not driven enough to do anything about it.

So both high rank and low rank men have high testosterone. The variable is intelligence and class.

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Well, I think the most important question is what, exactly, the authors think is a high and low status occupation. I wouldn't doubt they consider something like "writer" high status and "construction worker" as low status. They may be comparing occupations that build and maintain muscle against ones that don't, and then making "status" seem like the causal factor.

Outside in the sun doing manual labor = low status

Inside on your **** doing mental labor = high status

 

[pimpnamedraypeat]

Since when tall is manly?

Since forever.

Though i agree, modern height seems to be caused by a lack of sex hormones as opposed to masculinity

 

[dq139]

Since when tall is manly?

You need to seriously redefine your criterias.

A bunch of women-looking pale-faced asians with elongated fingers, slender arms who don’t weight a buck o five, who shout when they are not happy and kneel to their wives, playing video games all day long and fearing the real world.

Vs the manliest of all middle easterns, thick arms, short hairy fingers, calm and collected tempers, assertive

Turks like other (Mediterranean's & middle easterners) are definitely not calm lol..they all flip out very easy. Italians and Greeks are the same way, emotionally unstable aggressive hairy short act. They probably have higher estrogen & stress hormones with lower testosterone with sensitive androgen receptors which (as ray peat says) creates hyper masculinity.

 

[Madato]

Turks like other (Mediterranean's & middle easterners) are definitely not calm lol..they all flip out very easy. Italians and Greeks are the same way, emotionally unstable aggressive hairy short act. They probably have higher estrogen & stress hormones with lower testosterone with sensitive androgen receptors which (as ray peat says) creates hyper masculinity.

When I see how people look on this forum and how peat looks himself, I’m thinking something went wrong in how masculinity is considered.

None of you look rugged.

You have the typical physiques of dudes who were raised in easy conditions with a smooth lifestyle which has made your skin smooth.

You lift and you take hormones, but you will only ever look like a muscular efeminated version of boys, not even men.

You just didn’t grow up in man-forging conditions, it’s too late, all what you’ll do from now on will merely make you think you can reach a man status, but you won’t even get close to it.

Bunch of soy boys

 

[Stud]

When I see how people look on this forum and how peat looks himself, I’m thinking something went wrong in how masculinity is considered.

None of you look rugged.

You have the typical physiques of dudes who were raised in easy conditions with a smooth lifestyle which has made your skin smooth.

You lift and you take hormones, but you will only ever look like a muscular efeminated version of boys, not even men.

You just didn’t grow up in man-forging conditions, it’s too late, all what you’ll do from now on will merely make you think you can reach a man status, but you won’t even get close to it.

Bunch of soy boys

lol that proviron roid rage kicking in. Its sad how the average male looks my age though like little girls and they even act like girls, Hard to have respect for that.
this says enough hahaha damn that's nasty

 

[Such_Saturation]

Since when tall is manly?

Found the short one, soyboys

 

[meatbag]

When I see how people look on this forum and how peat looks himself, I’m thinking something went wrong in how masculinity is considered.

None of you look rugged.

You have the typical physiques of dudes who were raised in easy conditions with a smooth lifestyle which has made your skin smooth.

You lift and you take hormones, but you will only ever look like a muscular efeminated version of boys, not even men.

You just didn’t grow up in man-forging conditions, it’s too late, all what you’ll do from now on will merely make you think you can reach a man status, but you won’t even get close to it.

Bunch of soy boys

A true man if ever I've seen one

 

[Frankdee20]

He’s so manly, he’s got hair on the front of his face !

 

[Stud]

When I see how people look on this forum and how peat looks himself, I’m thinking something went wrong in how masculinity is considered.

None of you look rugged.

You have the typical physiques of dudes who were raised in easy conditions with a smooth lifestyle which has made your skin smooth.

You lift and you take hormones, but you will only ever look like a muscular efeminated version of boys, not even men.

You just didn’t grow up in man-forging conditions, it’s too late, all what you’ll do from now on will merely make you think you can reach a man status, but you won’t even get close to it.

Bunch of soy boys

gear makes your skin harder so if u actually really were on steroids you should now and post pic then of your "rugged" physique lel

 

[dq139]

When I see how people look on this forum and how peat looks himself, I’m thinking something went wrong in how masculinity is considered.

None of you look rugged.

You have the typical physiques of dudes who were raised in easy conditions with a smooth lifestyle which has made your skin smooth.

You lift and you take hormones, but you will only ever look like a muscular efeminated version of boys, not even men.

You just didn’t grow up in man-forging conditions, it’s too late, all what you’ll do from now on will merely make you think you can reach a man status, but you won’t even get close to it.

Bunch of soy boys

Why what is "man status"? Its a matter of opinion..

 

[meatbag]

They probably have higher estrogen & stress hormones with lower testosterone with sensitive androgen receptors which (as ray peat says) creates hyper masculinity.

Ray has said that it's estrogen that masculinizes the fetus in the womb but I don't think he's made the claim about receptors that you're proposing. It seems like estrogen (and also cortisol, serotonin) is the cause of aggression though;

Cortisol Linked To Aggression In 10yr Old Boys

SSRI Make Organisms Demented, Violent & Homicidal, Even At Low Doses

"A very common theme you'll hear is that testosterone is the male hormone and causes aggressive behavior, it causes you to be dominant and conquer other people, and get all the resources and the women, you know it makes you to be the king! Well that's not what actually happened when they did the studies with the volunteers, and it was a human study that they replicated. Not only did testosterone not make people exhibit these characteristics, it made them mellow. It did make them ASSERTIVE; basically it made them individualistic, self-reliant, assertive, compassionate, and intelligent. In other words NOT AGGRESSIVE. And the exact opposite when they gave people estrogen, and you got exactly the AUTHORITARIAN TYPE. Basically these people were angry, they were fighting with everyone, including among themselves, even though they were pitted in groups against each other. In general they weren't happy, they thought the world is a bad place and the only way you can make it there is by essentially taking away from other people, what ever it is that they have that you also desire"
~Another View of Evolution [Generative Energy #14]

gear makes your skin harder so if u actually really were on steroids you should now and post pic then of your "rugged" physique lel

I think it just reduces water retention under the skin, I don't think it actually changes the hardness property. Actually androgens would probably make the skin more smooth by encouraging cellular differentiation, where as estrogen would promote excessive growth and probably make the skin feel rougher like those keratin "chicken skin" bumps people get on the backs of their arms.

 

[meatbag]

He’s so manly, he’s got hair on the front of his face !

if your talking about the picture I posted you might wanna check your computer screen dude
his skin is so rugged its pure minerals, so tough there is not a hair to be found since it cannot penetrate the mantle. His thyroid function and androgens are so high that he has retained all magnesium