Low Copper & Lung function (shortness of breath, copd)

[cs3000]

inflammation / infection lowers copper in lungs through TNF-a
Copper Deficiency in the Lungs of TNF-α Transgenic Mice

The SPC-TNF-α transgenic mouse model mimics the common inflammatory features in human lung pathologies. We report for the first time that Cu is markedly downregulated by TNF-α-induced chronic inflammation in the lungs. These results show that chronic inflammation-induced Cu-deficiency likely plays a causative role in the progression of lung inflammation. [or damage]

The emerging findings of Cu deficiency-induced emphysema have suggested Cu as a paramount contributor in the progression of COPD and other lung disorders (Mizuno et al., 2012). Our results showed that chronic inflammation results in dramatic decreases in lung Cu content (~75%). This suggests Cu deficiency may be a factor in disease progression.

copper depletion can cause emphysema , lung damage
Copper Deficiency Induced Emphysema Is Associated with Focal Adhesion Kinase Inactivation

We have previously proposed that the endothelial cell growth and maintenance factor vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) is critically important for the health of lung microvascular endothelial cells [12], and because experimental strategies to decrease the expression of lung tissue VEGF or inhibit its actions have resulted in emphysema [13], we examined the lung tissue mRNA expression of VEGF from the copper-deficient rats and found decreased VEGF mRNA and protein expression levels of the mRNA
In addition, we found decreased expression of mRNA and protein levels of LOX, elastin, fibulin 1 (FBLN1) and fibrillin 1 (FBN1), whereas the expression of fibulin 5 (FBLN5) was increased (Figure 3A, C).

(copper is critical for proper wound healing / growth factors and plays a role in healthy connective tissue)

connective tissue (elastin) impact

Specifically, cross-linking of elastin is inhibited by copper deficiency. In animal models, this inhibition leads to weakened connective tissue and pathologic changes in the lungs consistent with emphysema. https://www.atsjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1164/arrd.1982.126.2.312?journalCode=arrd

 

[PeterSN]

Ive been suffering from alot of panic attacks, shortness of breath since early 2022, and im starting to think im copper deficient. I got my blood copper levels tested, they havent come back yet, but im still upset of my doctors, as they dont understand that a serum test is often not enough to know whats going on, especially with metals in the body

 

[Regina]

Ive been suffering from alot of panic attacks, shortness of breath since early 2022, and im starting to think im copper deficient. I got my blood copper levels tested, they havent come back yet, but im still upset of my doctors, as they dont understand that a serum test is often not enough to know whats going on, especially with metals in the body

I think the ceruloplasmin level is also important.

 

[Happy Camper]

Ive been suffering from alot of panic attacks, shortness of breath since early 2022, and im starting to think im copper deficient. I got my blood copper levels tested, they havent come back yet, but im still upset of my doctors, as they dont understand that a serum test is often not enough to know whats going on, especially with metals in the body

Grass-fed beef farmers I know use self select single minerals for cattle. One farmer told me he never knew how the cattle knew what they needed. I told him.

It's by taste. If you need a mineral, it will taste delicious.

So, I forgo blood tests and use taste test. Since I overdid it with zinc during COVID, I'm still beefing up my copper. Although on days I eat braunsweger or liverwurst, I don't need it for several days.

Put four drops of this ionic copper solution in 2 ounces of water. Taste and swirl it in your mouth.

If it's pleasant, add 4 more drops. That's your dose for the day.

If it tastes awful, toss it out, you don't need it.

If neutral, drink as is.

Since learning this I no longer use multi minerals. Too easy to inadvertently overdo it.

Taste N' Score Copper Liquid Ionic Supplement; 100% Pure; 2 mg; 177 Servings https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HYKBLR0/?tag=rapef020-20

 

[PeterSN]

Grass-fed beef farmers I know use self select single minerals for cattle. One farmer told me he never knew how the cattle knew what they needed. I told him.

It's by taste. If you need a mineral, it will taste delicious.

So, I forgo blood tests and use taste test. Since I overdid it with zinc during COVID, I'm still beefing up my copper. Although on days I eat braunsweger or liverwurst, I don't need it for several days.

Put four drops of this ionic copper solution in 2 ounces of water. Taste and swirl it in your mouth.

If it's pleasant, add 4 more drops. That's your dose for the day.

If it tastes awful, toss it out, you don't need it.

If neutral, drink as is.

Since learning this I no longer use multi minerals. Too easy to inadvertently overdo it.

Taste N' Score Copper Liquid Ionic Supplement; 100% Pure; 2 mg; 177 Servings Amazon product ASIN B00HYKBLR0View: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HYKBLR0/?tag=rapef020-20

I've have had a massive craving for dried dates over the last few months, and if I eat things too high in zinc I start to get heart palpitations. Also I have histamine intolerence which could be a copper deficiency in theory.

My mcv level has always been on the very low end of normal since getting my symptoms. I have chronic digestive issues too.

 

[cs3000]

Ive been suffering from alot of panic attacks, shortness of breath since early 2022, and im starting to think im copper deficient. I got my blood copper levels tested, they havent come back yet, but im still upset of my doctors, as they dont understand that a serum test is often not enough to know whats going on, especially with metals in the body

@PeterSN had your posts in mind when i read this study and @iLoveSugar

Looking at the image the tnf-a inflammation can cause copper depletion specific to the lungs (& heart) while not depleting in the blood. So if it is low in blood then restoring copper intake might go a long way at helping restore lung function to normal, BUT if its not low in blood then would probably need a different target to reverse the effect of copper depletion in lungs:

1 thing that has a good chance at working is here:

We have previously proposed that the endothelial cell growth and maintenance factor vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) is critically important for the health of lung microvascular endothelial cells [12], and because experimental strategies to decrease the expression of lung tissue VEGF or inhibit its actions have resulted in emphysema [13], we examined the lung tissue mRNA expression of VEGF from the copper-deficient rats and found decreased VEGF mRNA and protein expression levels of the mRNA
In addition, we found decreased expression of mRNA and protein levels of LOX, elastin, fibulin 1 (FBLN1) and fibrillin 1 (FBN1), whereas the expression of fibulin 5 (FBLN5) was increased (Figure 3A, C). Copper shared some of the pathways utilized by hypoxia to regulate VEGF expression

So a VEGF deficit as the mechanism for lung dysfunction effect of copper depletion specific to lungs induced by extended inflammation

*You can increase VEGF specific to your lungs by shining Red light LEDs on your chest daily
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6156453/


All red light has overall effect of reversing inflammatory m1 macrophages to repair m2 at the site its shined at done in short durations.
780nm wavelength boosts CD206 m2 macrophages more which increases growth factors VEGF may contribute to macrophage recruitment and M2 polarization in the decidua

CD206+ macrophages peak on Day 4 after a muscle injury4 and these cells mainly express TGFβ, arginase, chemokine motif ligand 18 (CCL18), VEGF‐A, platelet‐derived growth factor (PDGF) and insulin‐like growth factor (IGF) as well as other growth factors, which favours tissue repair.

but specifically for VEGF 650nm might work best for this purpose (increasing VEGF in lungs)

Red and near infrared light-stimulated angiogenesis mediated via Ca2+ influx, VEGF production and NO synthesis in endothelial cells in macrophage or malignant environments - PubMed

Irradiation with red or near-infrared (NIR) light in low level light therapy (LLLT) is found to stimulate cellular processes and bioenergetics, resulting in enhanced wound healing, pain control, neurodegenerative diseases treatment, etc. During light irradiation of tissues and organs, different...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The biochemical processes in endothelial cell cultures were investigated with and without irradiation by red (650 nm) and near-infrared (808 nm) laser diodes and under normoxia or hypoxia conditions.
A light-stimulated angiogenesis has been found, with a more efficient stimulation by 650 nm light compared to 808 nm light. It was shown that the irradiation with light promoted extracellular Ca2+ influx, fostered cell cycle progression, proliferation and NO generation in endothelial cells, and caused an increase in vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) production by endothelial cells and M2 macrophages under hypoxia conditions. The activation of VEGF production by macrophages was found to be associated with an increase in the number of M2 macrophages after light irradiation under hypoxia conditions.

(but the 808nm penetrates ribs better and first study is in vivo)
(eating a chlorophyll containing food daily might help boost the effect as the pigment accumulates in cells and absorbs the red light,, especially when low copper around that does this with its blue pigment)

and found this after i wrote this up which showed effect from small amount of uses

Acute effects of photobiomodulation therapy applied to respiratory muscles of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease patients: a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled crossover trial​

(^very short term study showing improved movement capacity from red light on chest, they likely would have improved more if they did this daily and for more days & weeks)


So this could be a big key (if done right, and directly on chest sections bareskin close enough daily)

 

[Highserotonin90]

@cs3000 There is a risk with oral intake of intoxicating a liver already saturated with copper... it becomes complicated to reach the lungs in this state, don't you think?

 

[cs3000]

@cs3000 There is a risk with oral intake of intoxicating a liver already saturated with copper... it becomes complicated to reach the lungs in this state, don't you think?

yeah vit A & D balance could play a role in that
theres potential for copper inhalation therapy instead if blood levels are up but not getting to lungs, but 1. hasnt been proven yet i dont think, Copper-Heparin Inhalation Therapy To Repair Emphysema: A Scientific Rationale
and 2. has to be right form of copper so doesnt increase scarring.
lowering the TNF-a in lungs & keeping zinc intake low end might help restore lung copper over time if intake is good, and have vit A intake to help copper import (without overload intake which might keep it stuck) Assessment of vitamin A status in chronic obstructive pulmonary disease patients and healthy smokers - PubMed

[*i wrote in previous post, 1 option people can try is restoring the low VEGF as the mechanism of dysfunction from low copper local to lungs ,
by using daily LED red light sessions on the chest directly. Which if done right should increase the lacking m2 macrophages & VEGF,
good chance to help resolve the lung symptoms]

 

[Highserotonin90]

@cs3000 I would like to keep the zinc at an adequate level with the hope of decongesting the liver from the copper but it becomes a complicated and delicate balance with A and D also involved... between agonists and antagonists.

 

[PeterSN]

@PeterSN had your posts in mind when i read this study and @iLoveSugar

Looking at the image the tnf-a inflammation can cause copper depletion specific to the lungs (& heart) while not depleting in the blood. So if it is low in blood then restoring copper intake might go a long way at helping restore lung function to normal, BUT if its not low in blood then would probably need a different target to reverse the effect of copper depletion in lungs:

1 thing that has a good chance at working is here:



So a VEGF deficit as the mechanism for lung dysfunction effect of copper depletion specific to lungs induced by extended inflammation

*You can increase VEGF specific to your lungs by shining Red light LEDs on your chest daily
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6156453/


All red light has overall effect of reversing inflammatory m1 macrophages to repair m2 at the site its shined at done in short durations.
780nm wavelength boosts CD206 m2 macrophages more which increases growth factors VEGF may contribute to macrophage recruitment and M2 polarization in the decidua

but specifically for VEGF 650nm might work best for this purpose (increasing VEGF in lungs)

Red and near infrared light-stimulated angiogenesis mediated via Ca2+ influx, VEGF production and NO synthesis in endothelial cells in macrophage or malignant environments - PubMed

Irradiation with red or near-infrared (NIR) light in low level light therapy (LLLT) is found to stimulate cellular processes and bioenergetics, resulting in enhanced wound healing, pain control, neurodegenerative diseases treatment, etc. During light irradiation of tissues and organs, different...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

(but the 808nm penetrates ribs better and first study is in vivo)
(eating a chlorophyll containing food daily might help boost the effect as the pigment accumulates in cells and absorbs the red light,, especially when low copper around that does this with its blue pigment)

and found this after i wrote this up which showed effect from small amount of uses

Acute effects of photobiomodulation therapy applied to respiratory muscles of chronic obstructive pulmonary disease patients: a double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled crossover trial​

(^very short term study showing improved movement capacity from red light on chest, they likely would have improved more if they did this daily and for more days & weeks)


So this could be a big key (if done right, and directly on chest sections bareskin close enough daily)

Thanks for the information, really interesting stuff. In case you don't know I got my cooper serum test back and it's severely low, completely out of range. It doesn't help that I know I have high estrogen and estrogen increases serum copper, so maybe it's even lower...

 

[cs3000]

Thanks for the information, really interesting stuff. In case you don't know I got my cooper serum test back and it's severely low, completely out of range. It doesn't help that I know I have high estrogen and estrogen increases serum copper, so maybe it's even lower...

np, ah makes sense with this then. so in your case it might be simple fix by just getting copper up , curious to hear if it does. you know your typical diet intake? (from what i remember in rats with copper deficiency their enlarged hearts returned mostly to normal by a few weeks of repletion) ,

Absorption might be good already if diet has been low. but if not then for full copper absorption you need ATP7a to import it into cells from gut. if you have high estrogen then that probably takes care of the atp7a side already. or vitamin a can do that if not.
but you also need export from the cell into circulation. vitamin d impacts that. (but have to take it slow on vitamin D with low copper as can worsen heart issues until its up)
(adding copper supplement or beef liver seemed to stress me out more as i have low iron, copper creates more shift from dopamine -> norepinephrine. so need both in good balance. also i think when supplementing copper without food it probably counts as a lot higher dose as its not being countered by other things in food)

+ boosts of a few minutes red light on chest could likely help accelerate recovery alongside this

 

[Highserotonin90]

@cs3000 Above did you mean copper refeeding or elimination?

 

[cs3000]

@cs3000 Above did you mean copper refeeding or elimination?

refeeding

Heart failure improvement from a supplement containing copper

Witte et al.1 improved ventricular function and quality of life in septuagenarian patients with chronic heart failure and ischaemic heart disease by supplementa

academic.oup.com

Cytochrome Oxidase Repair during Treatment of Copper Deficiency: Relation to Mitochondrial Turnover

The repair of cytochrome oxidase depletion during the treatment of copper deficiency was studied in the rat. The purpose of this study was to distinguish the role of new cell production from the possibly more specific role of mitochondrial turnover in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Mauritio]

Ive been suffering from alot of panic attacks, shortness of breath since early 2022, and im starting to think im copper deficient. I got my blood copper levels tested, they havent come back yet, but im still upset of my doctors, as they dont understand that a serum test is often not enough to know whats going on, especially with metals in the body

That can be high lactic acid! Try some vitamin B1.

 

[cs3000]

That can be high lactic acid! Try some vitamin B1.

worth a read The Dark Side of Biotin (and b1)
most likely the copper

 

[Mauritio]

worth a read The Dark Side of Biotin (and b1)
most likely the copper

That is an interesting observation. But that that does not mean that that happens to everyone. Anecdotally I can say that I start to gain weight on biotin, but I think its more related to it lowering fatty acid oxidation.
Overall I find masterjohns way of approaching things incoherent, lacking the bigger picture and too focused on the genetic idea. Still he has some great insights.

 

[cs3000]

That is an interesting observation. But that that does not mean that that happens to everyone. Anecdotally I can say that I start to gain weight on biotin, but I think its more related to it lowering fatty acid oxidation.
Overall I find masterjohns way of approaching things incoherent, lacking the bigger picture and too focused on the genetic idea. Still he has some great insights.

tru can go the other way too, maybe depending on if theres a deficiency. his reasoning makes sense here to me tho. if in poor health with mitochondria not processing the fuel that could put the accelerator on to generate more lactate. also can chelate metals in the doses supplements are at so has potential to worsen some situations like this. so 1 worth being cautious with here

 

[Beatrix_]

That can be high lactic acid! Try some vitamin B1.

My husband has been supplementing B1 + copper for a few days now. His severe fatigue and muscle pain in the calves are already gone. We also suspended the coffee after lunch because it is said to block mineral and B1 absorption.

I knew he needed copper supplementation based on a somewhat old blood test that showed low serum copper. After 1 month supplementation he will draw blood again to test several markers (serum copper and ceruloplasmin among them).

 

[PeterSN]

np, ah makes sense with this then. so in your case it might be simple fix by just getting copper up , curious to hear if it does. you know your typical diet intake? (from what i remember in rats with copper deficiency their enlarged hearts returned mostly to normal by a few weeks of repletion) ,

Absorption might be good already if diet has been low. but if not then for full copper absorption you need ATP7a to import it into cells from gut. if you have high estrogen then that probably takes care of the atp7a side already. or vitamin a can do that if not.
but you also need export from the cell into circulation. vitamin d impacts that. (but have to take it slow on vitamin D with low copper as can worsen heart issues until its up)
(adding copper supplement or beef liver seemed to stress me out more as i have low iron, copper creates more shift from dopamine -> norepinephrine. so need both in good balance. also i think when supplementing copper without food it probably counts as a lot higher dose as its not being countered by other things in food)

+ boosts of a few minutes red light on chest could likely help accelerate recovery alongside this

It's a really interesting point you bring up with the vitamin d, i always end up getting heart palpitations if I take them, perhaps you're right in terms of it being related to low copper?

 

[Mauritio]

tru can go the other way too, maybe depending on if theres a deficiency. his reasoning makes sense here to me tho. if in poor health with mitochondria not processing the fuel that could put the accelerator on to generate more lactate. also can chelate metals in the doses supplements are at so has potential to worsen some situations like this. so 1 worth being cautious with here

yeah makes sense. does biotin chelate metals?