Immunity restoring effect of DHEA (fixing low levels restores immune system activity)

[cs3000]

DHEA levels are low in people hospitalized with covid
(when controlled for age group - so its not just that people older aged have lower DHEA levels, but within the age group also DHEA levels are ~50% less in people hospitalized vs controls,
and the drop in DHEA levels correlates with severity)

* all hospitalized people had around or <80 mcg / dl.
of them DHEA levels <40 = 48% death rate, 40-80 = 30% death rate, >80 = 20% death rate,

(i would want DHEA levels >100 at least)
(DHEA levels drop <100 in some people over age 50, or in people with colitis / gut inflammation (partly because of cortisol medication but also due to other things like lower fat intake or absorption, DHEA goes down the most out of hormones on low fat diet))

Activation of Immune Function by Dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) in Age-Advanced Men
DHEA given to men in their 60s boosts immune cell counts & actively a big amount

Activation of immune function occurred within 2–20 weeks of DHEA treatment. ​

When compared with placebo, DHEA administration resulted in a: ​

. 20% increase (p < .01) in serum IGF-I, ​

. The number of monocytes increased significantly after 2 (+45%) and 20 (+35%) weeks of treatment. ​

. The population of B cells fluctuated with increases at 2 (+35%) and 10 (+29%) weeks of treatment. ​

. B cell mitogenic response increased 62% (p < .05) by 12 weeks. ​

. Total T cells and T cell subsets were unaltered. However, a 40% increase in T cell mitogenic response, 39% increase in cells expressing the IL-2R(CD25+), and 20% increase in serum sIL-2R levels were found at 12–20 weeks of DHEA treatment, suggesting a functional activation of T lymphocytes occurred. ​

. NK cell number showed a 22–37% increase by 18–20 weeks of treatment with a concomitant 45% increase (p < .01) in cytotoxicity.​

There were no adverse effects noted with DHEA administration.​

(basically the immune loss seen in old age is mostly down to the drop in DHEA levels - which restores when you restore it)

And as a bonus
DHEA-S inhibits human neutrophil and human airway smooth muscle migration

DHEA has anti inflammatory effect in the lungs, inhibits neutrophil migration to sites of inflammation.
(excessive neutrophil migration is the mechanism behind lung damage in viral infections)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1750969/

The steroid hormone DHEA has been shown to be beneficial in animal experiments of trauma or sepsis [24-27]. Previous studies by our group revealed that these beneficial effects are concomitant with a reduced amount of infiltrating neutrophils in distinct tissue sites, for example, lung tissue [28]. As neutrophil extravasation is mainly caused by adhesion molecules, we suggested that DHEA has a specific effect on adhesion molecule expression.
In the present study we demonstrate that DHEA has distinct in vitro effects on surface expression patterns of adhesion molecules of endothelial and neutrophil origin. This result is interesting because a concentration of 10-8 M resembles the physiological DHEA concentration. The strongest effects of DHEA occurred with a DHEA concentration of 10-8 M compared to a concentration of 10-5 M

However, these effects could not be detected when DHEA was applied after LPS challenge. Thus, DHEA was not able to reverse inflammatory effects in vitro. Nevertheless, we do conclude that one mechanism of action by which DHEA exerts protective effects is via the modulation of adhesion molecules as DHEA alone did affect adhesion molecule expression. In this experimental setting, cofactors that are essential for the modulation of inflammatory responses in vivo might have been missing.
we found that modulating effects triggered by DHEA treatment were always opposite to the effects induced by LPS.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7026770/

DHEA inhibited leukocyte adhesion to the endothelium in venules of the inflamed mouse cremaster muscle. Importantly, in a model of lung inflammation, DHEA limited neutrophil recruitment in a DEL-1–dependent manner.
In conclusion, DHEA restrains neutrophil recruitment by reversing inflammation-induced downregulation of DEL-1 expression. Therefore, the anti-inflammatory DHEA/DEL-1 axis could be harnessed therapeutically in the context of inflammatory diseases.

(probably the main mechanism why DHEA is helpful in colitis, where DHEA levels drop by 50% - helping lower the excessive neutrophil damage)


So DHEA has a dual pro-immunity anti-inflammatory action , which i dont see a lot
Effects of DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) on Host Virus Interactions

Administration of DHEA alone was also associated with enlargement of the spleen germinal centers which suggests stimulation of the B lymphocyte dependent areas.
Protection against lethal infections by coxsackievirus B4 with DHEA wasobtained if the hormone was administered in a) the diet or by subcutaneous injection.
our initial results demonstrate that in order for DHEA injected S.C. to have an antiviral effect, the hormone must be administered in a lipophilic vehicle

The results demonstrate that administration of a single dose of DHEA (S.C) to* db/+ mice resulted in a significant protection from coxsackie virus B4 mortality for at least 11 days [by restoring native immunity] [no significant extra benefit if DHEA levels already good]Effects of DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone) on Host Virus Interactions

"Because DHEA is a native steroid that has been used clinically with minimal side effects, the utility of DHEA in the therapeutic modulation of acute and chronic viral infections including acquired immune deficiency syndrome (e.g.,HIV) deserves intensive study."

 

[cs3000]

in older men 25mg orally restored baseline dhea to youth levels

in hypothyroid men & women aged mostly 41 - 60:
"The average dose of DHEA required to correct DHEAS levels was 24.31 ± 10.75 mg at 3 months and 18.75 ± 6.30 mg at 6 months.

DHEA-S levels rose significantly after supplementation withoral DHEA .The average level at baseline was 40.86 mcg/dl ±
23.40 mcg/dl in the AADS cohort. It rose to 81.39 mcg/dl ± 51.71 mcg/dl at 3 months and 89.53 mcg/dl ± 51.50 mcg/dl at 6
months. (idk whats with that margin for error but yeah)
Most patients felt the maximum benefit of therapy within 4-6 weeks"

Immunity restoration should hit well by 1-2 weeks. (the mice study - immune cells went down in initial 3 days, then up well from baseline at 7 days and 14 days)

(low DHEA is associated with hypothyroid and low copper, and restoring DHEA can help fix thyroid, lowering TSH and antibodies and increasing thyroid secretion capacity Impact of dehydroepiandrosterone on thyroid autoimmunity and function in men with autoimmune hypothyroidism - International Journal of Clinical Pharmacy

50mg orally in men:
Oral dehydroepiandrosterone increased dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate and testosterone levels, as well as had a neutral effect on estradiol levels. The increase in dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate correlated with treatment-induced changes in serum testosterone.
Moreover, dehydroepiandrosterone reduced titers of thyroid peroxidase and thyroglobulin antibodies, decreased serum thyrotropin levels, reduced Jostel’s thyrotropin index as well as increased thyroid’s secretory capacity. Treatment-induced changes correlated with the increase in dehydroepiandrosterone-sulfate and testosterone levels.
Conclusion The obtained results show that exogenous dehydroepiandrosterone may exert a beneficial effect on thyroid autoimmunity and hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis activity in men with autoimmune thyroiditis and subclinical hypothyroidism.

 

[bloooeh]

in older men 25mg orally restored baseline dhea to youth levels

in hypothyroid men & women aged mostly 41 - 60:
"The average dose of DHEA required to correct DHEAS levels was 24.31 ± 10.75 mg at 3 months and 18.75 ± 6.30 mg at 6 months.

DHEA-S levels rose significantly after supplementation withoral DHEA .The average level at baseline was 40.86 mcg/dl ±
23.40 mcg/dl in the AADS cohort. It rose to 81.39 mcg/dl ± 51.71 mcg/dl at 3 months and 89.53 mcg/dl ± 51.50 mcg/dl at 6
months. (idk whats with that margin for error but yeah)
Most patients felt the maximum benefit of therapy within 4-6 weeks"

Immunity restoration should hit well by 1-2 weeks. (the mice study - immune cells went down in initial 3 days, then up well from baseline at 7 days and 14 days)

(low DHEA is associated with hypothyroid and low copper, and restoring DHEA can help fix thyroid, lowering TSH and antibodies and increasing thyroid secretion capacity Impact of dehydroepiandrosterone on thyroid autoimmunity and function in men with autoimmune hypothyroidism - International Journal of Clinical Pharmacy

Interesting!. I have high TPO antibodies and I’ve been trying different ways in lowering it but now am curious if topical dhea will help lower it. I might have to increase Pansterone dosage and recheck thyroid labs in couple months. If not, maybe I’ll try oral dhea. Thanks for the article!

 

[cs3000]

Interesting!. I have high TPO antibodies and I’ve been trying different ways in lowering it but now am curious if topical dhea will help lower it. I might have to increase Pansterone dosage and recheck thyroid labs in couple months. If not, maybe I’ll try oral dhea. Thanks for the article!

yw effect size isnt a full fix alone but decent ~30% reduction . -20% TSH and thyroid hormones werent effected much

So could be helpful part of a stack if dhea levels are low ,
some studies say testosterone is linked to lowering the antibodies but 1. the testosterone increase was small and 2. "Hypothyroidism is associated with higher testosterone levels in postmenopausal women with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis" in postmenopausal women with higher free T , doesnt change thyroid antibodies .
so likely that reduction comes from a different effect of the DHEA like lowering cytokines

 

[bloooeh]

yw effect size isnt a full fix alone but decent ~30% reduction . -20% TSH and thyroid hormones werent effected much
View attachment 51803

So could be helpful part of a stack if dhea levels are low ,
some studies say testosterone is linked to lowering the antibodies but 1. the testosterone increase was small and 2. "Hypothyroidism is associated with higher testosterone levels in postmenopausal women with Hashimoto’s thyroiditis" in postmenopausal women with higher free T , doesnt change thyroid antibodies .
so likely that reduction comes from a different effect of the DHEA like lowering cytokines

Haven't had dhea levels checked in awhile & that's something I need to look into but dhea is definitely worth a try if it will help lower my TPO Ab.

 

[cs3000]

DHEA levels are low in people hospitalized with covid
(when controlled for age group - so its not just that people older aged have lower DHEA levels, but within the age group also DHEA levels are ~50% less in people hospitalized vs controls,
and the drop in DHEA levels correlates with severity)

View attachment 51796
* all hospitalized people had around or <80 mcg / dl.
of them DHEA levels <40 = 48% death rate, 40-80 = 30% death rate, >80 = 20% death rate,

(i would want DHEA levels >100 at least)
(DHEA levels drop <100 in some people over age 50, or in people with colitis / gut inflammation (partly because of cortisol medication but also due to other things like lower fat intake or absorption, DHEA goes down the most out of hormones on low fat diet))

average DHEA level for 65-68 year olds in italy is 70-65 mcg / dl [range 36 - 114]
majority of people past 55 / 60 years old not >100 mcg/dl [100mcg/dl is just ensuring outside of the 80 hospitalized group, probably benefit to being higher even.
around 200 looks optimal, youth level]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2946952/

We examined the relation of base-line circulating DHEAS levels to subsequent 12-year mortality from any cause, from cardiovascular disease, and from ischemic heart disease in a population-based cohort of 242 men aged 50 to 79 years at the start of the study.
Mean DHEAS levels decreased with age and were also significantly lower in men with a history of heart disease than in those without such a history.
In men with no history of heart disease at base line, the age-adjusted relative risk associated with a DHEAS level below 140 micrograms per deciliter was 1.5 (P not significant) for death from any causes, 3.3 (P less than 0.05) for death from cardiovascular disease, and 3.2 (P less than 0.05) for death from ischemic heart disease.
In multivariate analyses, an increase in DHEAS level of 100 micrograms per deciliter was associated with a 36 percent reduction in mortality from any causes (P less than 0.05) and a 48 percent reduction in mortality from cardiovascular disease (P less than 0.05), after adjustment for age, systolic blood pressure, serum cholesterol level, obesity, fasting plasma glucose level, cigarette smoking status, and personal history of heart disease.
Our conclusions are limited by the single determination of DHEAS levels, but the data suggest that the DHEAS concentration is independently and inversely related to death from any cause and death from cardiovascular disease in men over age 50.

 

[Regina]

Haven't had dhea levels checked in awhile & that's something I need to look into but dhea is definitely worth a try if it will help lower my TPO Ab.

haidut has mentioned that the Cortisol : DHEA ratio is important.

 

[bloooeh]

haidut has mentioned that the Cortisol : DHEA ratio is important.

Yes, I heard that too but what’s the best method to measure cortisol levels? Isn’t it multiple blood draws throughout the day? Curious which one is the most accurate method: blood, urine, or saliva? Thanks

 

[Regina]

I'm not sure what would be the best method. But I found this:

DHEA: Cortisol Ratio | Healthmatters.io

This calculation represents anabolic and catabolic balance. Since DHEA acts not only as an anabolic hormone, but app…

healthmatters.io

 

[bloooeh]

I'm not sure what would be the best method. But I found this:

DHEA: Cortisol Ratio | Healthmatters.io

This calculation represents anabolic and catabolic balance. Since DHEA acts not only as an anabolic hormone, but app…

healthmatters.io

Thanks!

 

[EustaceBagge]

in older men 25mg orally restored baseline dhea to youth levels

in hypothyroid men & women aged mostly 41 - 60:
"The average dose of DHEA required to correct DHEAS levels was 24.31 ± 10.75 mg at 3 months and 18.75 ± 6.30 mg at 6 months.

DHEA-S levels rose significantly after supplementation withoral DHEA .The average level at baseline was 40.86 mcg/dl ±
23.40 mcg/dl in the AADS cohort. It rose to 81.39 mcg/dl ± 51.71 mcg/dl at 3 months and 89.53 mcg/dl ± 51.50 mcg/dl at 6
months. (idk whats with that margin for error but yeah)
Most patients felt the maximum benefit of therapy within 4-6 weeks"

Immunity restoration should hit well by 1-2 weeks. (the mice study - immune cells went down in initial 3 days, then up well from baseline at 7 days and 14 days)

(low DHEA is associated with hypothyroid and low copper, and restoring DHEA can help fix thyroid, lowering TSH and antibodies and increasing thyroid secretion capacity Impact of dehydroepiandrosterone on thyroid autoimmunity and function in men with autoimmune hypothyroidism - International Journal of Clinical Pharmacy

25mg sounds an awful lot. Did those people that supplemented DHEA take it with a fatty, big meal low in fiber? Otherwise absorption is compromised somewhat, and Ray recommends no more than 15mg a day and prefers 5-10mg.

 

[Peatfan69]

I prefer to take things that stimulate natural DHEA production rather than take the actual hormone. I know shilajit, tribulus and mag chloride can increase DHEA production, does anyone else know of any other compounds that can do this?

 

[milk_lover]

I prefer to take things that stimulate natural DHEA production rather than take the actual hormone. I know shilajit, tribulus and mag chloride can increase DHEA production, does anyone else know of any other compounds that can do this?

You can eat animal thyroid gland from the butcher. You can boil algae or oysters in milk for some time to get iodinated casein, which is similar to thyroxine (T4). Combination of tyrosine and iodine. Thyroid increases the conversion of cholesterol to downstream hormones including DHEA. Aspirin could increase metabolism and conversion of T4 to T3.

 

[cs3000]

25mg sounds an awful lot. Did those people that supplemented DHEA take it with a fatty, big meal low in fiber? Otherwise absorption is compromised somewhat, and Ray recommends no more than 15mg a day and prefers 5-10mg.

not sure how different absorption is with fat , but yeah if DHEA levels arent already crashed low in older age i think thats a big dose

1 thing i dont like about DHEA is it increases serotonin in the DRN brain region which is high in people with depression (pregnenolone too but less so, and a metabolite of progesterone does too),
i noticed that "serotonergic state" i.e anxiety + tiredness + dissociated combo from taking 25mg. lasted into the next 2 days. probably an indicator of tipping the balance too far.

 

[EustaceBagge]

not sure how different absorption is with fat , but yeah if DHEA levels arent already crashed low in older age i think thats a big dose

1 thing i dont like about DHEA is it increases serotonin in the DRN brain region which is high in people with depression (pregnenolone too but less so, and a metabolite of progesterone does too),
i noticed that "serotonergic state" i.e anxiety + tiredness + dissociated combo from taking 25mg. lasted into the next 2 days. probably an indicator of tipping the balance too far.

For me the anxiety got numbed down, but the tiredness and dissociation increased significantly at even 10mg. Right now I reduced the dose to 5mg and I'm gonna give it a shot for a week before I stop using it.

At 10mg I also started getting red spots that looked like the beginnings of cystic acne. I can't imagine 25mg. I do take my DHEA with a very big meal, so that must improve efficiency Imo.