Low carb dieters look so much older

[BestSinceDAYONE]

Yeah, not gonna lie, she's smokin
She doesnt even have tig ole bitties, pretty well balanced with the rest of her physique
Not here to judge her as a person but merely as a girl since I'm a hetero lad

Yeah idk what other ppl here are saying...she's too thin and/or her boobs are fake...looks pretty natural to me!

 

[nomoreketones]

FWIW I'm pretty sure that picture of Mark Sisson is dated, like, very dated. I remember that picture of him back on his MDA blog like in 2013 or 2014. He has recently appeared on Joe Rogan's podcast and he looks considerably older.

Checking it out. A little bit before the 6 minute mark he says that he got COVID and it was no big deal for him. He has interesting thoughts on viral load. His opinion that if you catch it outside the viral load will be low and your body will be able to deal with it and you will be fine.

A decade ago I thought he didn't age well when I met him in person when he gave a talk. He doesn't really look different than I remember. He looks like he spends a lot of time in the sun and that could explain why COVID was no big deal for him.

 

[Hermes]

OMG - 20 years of a meat only diet after being bitten by a tick. Crazy.

Joe and Charlene Anderson: more than 20 years eating only meat - KetoForHealth.org

Doctors, supporters of a healthy lifestyle, and everyone who keeps up their appearance, pay great attention to the issues of balanced nutrition. Every year

www.ketoforhealth.org

This is a great testimony to what food can achieve for your health. She was sick and and ugly duckling when she was 25. With over forty she looks stunning.

As they‘re only eating ribeye steaks and water, they’re basically eating a low vitamin a diet like Grant Genereux except for the rice he eats. I wonder how they‘re vitamin a stores are. They must be depleted. Probably they never cared to measure. And no calcium except from what they get in water. Might be a case for low vitamin a.

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

This is a great testimony to what food can achieve for your health. She was sick and and ugly duckling when she was 25. With over forty she looks stunning.

As they‘re only eating ribeye steaks and water, they’re basically eating a low vitamin a diet like Grant Genereux except for the rice he eats. I wonder how they‘re vitamin a stores are. They must be depleted. Probably they never cared to measure. And no calcium except from what they get in water. Might be a case for low vitamin a.

Also a case study on the negative effects of additives. I guarantee if they were eating ketogenic with keto poptarts, keto cookies etc. their results wouldn't be as good.

 

[Hermes]

Also a case study on the negative effects of additives. I guarantee if they were eating ketogenic with keto poptarts, keto cookies etc. their results wouldn't be as good.

Totally. Just I wonder, how feasible will this diet be longterm? Think reset, green economy ... there's a hard push to ban raising cattle for meat production. And you may think, oh no, this won't ever happen, the vegan ideology is the food plan for the masses according to the elites. It's freaking scary that people are actually pushing this. Completely ruining food supply by small farms making way for big agriculture.

 

[Nebula]

Yeah, not gonna lie, she's smokin
She doesnt even have tig ole bitties, pretty well balanced with the rest of her physique
Not here to judge her as a person but merely as a girl since I'm a hetero lad

As I recall Freelee has always been open about having breast implants. It seems high carb vegan works ok for her. She could probably fill in some nutritional gaps with some occasional days of eating meat to appetite. Interesting that’s working great for @Tarmander

This is a great testimony to what food can achieve for your health. She was sick and and ugly duckling when she was 25. With over forty she looks stunning.

As they‘re only eating ribeye steaks and water, they’re basically eating a low vitamin a diet like Grant Genereux except for the rice he eats. I wonder how they‘re vitamin a stores are. They must be depleted. Probably they never cared to measure. And no calcium except from what they get in water. Might be a case for low vitamin a.

She, her kids and husband also only eat once in the evening. 2-3 pounds of minimally cooked very high fat ribeye with minimal salt and seasoning.

Its very interesting. There seems to be a deep pre-agriculture adaptation in some North Europeans/Asians for a fatty meat only diet. I’m jealous tbh. I’d love to be able to eat one completely satisfying and simple meal at night and not have to think about diet and health anymore than that. Reductionism and supplementation view of health isn’t enjoyable and doesn’t get great results in many cases.

I wonder if the common thread here is animal protein only once per day or less and nothing to disrupt electrolyte levels. Little salt, allowing potassium and magnesium to be the primary electrolytes.

I was surprised to see that rib eye has abundant potassium. That much rib eye would also have about 0.5 grams taurine. Maybe that has positive electrolyte balance effects too.

I’m experimenting with some of @Amarsh213 ’s ideas about potassium and magnesium. It’s hard to do, I think I’ve been chronically adapted to a high sodium chloride to potassium ratio, like most hypothyroid modern people are. My system currently does not respond well to consuming more potassium than sodium it throws everything out of whack.

 

[JacobG]

Yes, it’s a controversial subject amongst people on carnivore which is more what I was referring to so I should have been specific. I’ve never done keto per say and just ended up being mostly carnivore a couple years ago after getting tired of recurring GI and other issues. I’m one who does best with mainly meat (& some dairy/eggs). You’re right about the fat of course which is key. Perhaps age and hormones play a role too. I just know for me I have to be mindful of fluid and electrolytes especially during the time when I’m on progesterone.

I also suffered massive gut complains. Carnivore/PKD was not enough for me to fix it but helped. Huge amounts of antimicrobials, disinfectants, polyphenols and probiotics helped me to shift the microbiome. A FMT might have been the faster way but finding someone healthy in this day and age is close to impossible.

 

[DiabloQueso]

I've noticed this is true as well. And I'm not using celebrity examples, I'm thinking of people I knew before and after keto. Most people do seem to age more on keto and it's because they're doing something wrong. I notice specifically the issue is that their collagen starts to bind very tightly. This doesn't create a lot of wrinkles, but makes the face look sunken and hollow. This is different from Vegans who seem to lose collagen *volume*. The effect of keto is very similar to people in their 30s high dosing tumeric(which also causes tighter binding of collagen).

However, while I notice this in general - it doesn't happen to everyone. And in particular, I notice it seems to have the least impact on people who train with HIT, and has the worst impact on endurance trainers. I've noticed keto joggers seem to age 15 years in the first 5. It's pretty brutal. Vegans also age badly in general, but it seems to be for different reasons. The men lose their hair like mad too. I've never completely figured out why, though I suspect PUFA is main driver of their hairloss.

That said, there is a formula to age well while vegan or keto. But because both veganism and keogenic followers are essentially in a cult, they refuse to acknowledge that the majority of people who take up the broader diet age poorly. They deflect and engage in bad faith arguments about out of shape fat people, which has no bearing on the topic at hand. I've seen it discussed too many times. And because they literally refuse to engage in the topic - it will remain impossible to figure out the root cause as the followers of the diet refuse to admit what is obvious to everyone outside of their group. You can't isolate a problem when you've invested in the problem not existing.

While I'm not certain, I believe Retin-A would help prevent or mitigate the common skin aging issue with keto (it would do nothing for vegans). I feel like vegan skin aging ties back to insufficient dietary protein or excessively high PUFA - but... I can't fully isolate the issue. It seems to me that the very thinnest vegans suffer the most from this, so I lean towards proteins/amino acids but it's more of a hunch than anything else.

 

[Blossom]

I also suffered massive gut complains. Carnivore/PKD was not enough for me to fix it but helped. Huge amounts of antimicrobials, disinfectants, polyphenols and probiotics helped me to shift the microbiome. A FMT might have been the faster way but finding someone healthy in this day and age is close to impossible.

Awesome. I don’t think my GI issues are fixed by any means because as soon as I branch out from this minimal (as far as variety) type of eating the symptoms return. Do you have a thread here about your experience? I’m interested in the details but don’t want to get thread too off topic.

 

[TopGun1911]

It’s mostly genetics.

 

[nomoreketones]

It’s mostly genetics.

Maybe it's mostly genetics. Or maybe it's mostly environment and lifestyle. How can we possibly know for sure one way or the other?

 

[Jessie]

Checking it out. A little bit before the 6 minute mark he says that he got COVID and it was no big deal for him. He has interesting thoughts on viral load. His opinion that if you catch it outside the viral load will be low and your body will be able to deal with it and you will be fine.

A decade ago I thought he didn't age well when I met him in person when he gave a talk. He doesn't really look different than I remember. He looks like he spends a lot of time in the sun and that could explain why COVID was no big deal for him.

Doesn't he live in SoCal? He probably gets frequent sun exposure daily.

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

I've noticed this is true as well. And I'm not using celebrity examples, I'm thinking of people I knew before and after keto. Most people do seem to age more on keto and it's because they're doing something wrong. I notice specifically the issue is that their collagen starts to bind very tightly. This doesn't create a lot of wrinkles, but makes the face look sunken and hollow. This is different from Vegans who seem to lose collagen *volume*. The effect of keto is very similar to people in their 30s high dosing tumeric(which also causes tighter binding of collagen).

I don't know if it's fair to use celebs...they have access to all the anti-aging doctors (of course they could **** it up like Michael Jackson)...but also they have much LESS stress / cortisol from being successful, probably a dopamine rush!

However, while I notice this in general - it doesn't happen to everyone. And in particular, I notice it seems to have the least impact on people who train with HIT, and has the worst impact on endurance trainers. I've noticed keto joggers seem to age 15 years in the first 5. It's pretty brutal. Vegans also age badly in general, but it seems to be for different reasons. The men lose their hair like mad too. I've never completely figured out why, though I suspect PUFA is main driver of their hairloss.

That said, there is a formula to age well while vegan or keto. But because both veganism and keogenic followers are essentially in a cult, they refuse to acknowledge that the majority of people who take up the broader diet age poorly. They deflect and engage in bad faith arguments about out of shape fat people, which has no bearing on the topic at hand. I've seen it discussed too many times. And because they literally refuse to engage in the topic - it will remain impossible to figure out the root cause as the followers of the diet refuse to admit what is obvious to everyone outside of their group. You can't isolate a problem when you've invested in the problem not existing.

Idk how people can age well on keto unless they're using some exogenous stuff like hgh / TRT. Idk how they manage the cortisol load.
And yeah, some vegans look like ***t like Mic the Vegan and Dr. Gregor

While I'm not certain, I believe Retin-A would help prevent or mitigate the common skin aging issue with keto (it would do nothing for vegans). I feel like vegan skin aging ties back to insufficient dietary protein or excessively high PUFA - but... I can't fully isolate the issue. It seems to me that the very thinnest vegans suffer the most from this, so I lean towards proteins/amino acids but it's more of a hunch than anything else.

I think Hylauronic acid is a must, I feel like the high carb vegans that aren't overconsuming PUFA look the best but there's so many factors in life: your relationships, job stress, income stress, your country you live in, access to healthcare.

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

As I recall Freelee has always been open about having breast implants. It seems high carb vegan works ok for her. She could probably fill in some nutritional gaps with some occasional days of eating meat to appetite. Interesting that’s working great for @Tarmander

Not too sound like a durian fanboy, but her overall look has declined ever since they've broken up! Face looking puffy from botox? I don't want to be mean, as long as she's happy with her appearance, totally fine! But her transformation was dramatic (from being fat to high carb vegan)

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

It’s mostly genetics.

You must be a blackpiller

 

[artist]

FWIW Freelee has breast implants (she’s talked about it) and she very publicly stopped wearing makeup about a year ago. She’s in her 40s now.

Charlene Anderson looks amazing, I can’t help but notice how perfect her hair quality/hairline is and she has this lack of both puffiness and sunkenness in her face and body that makes her look super healthy and genuinely hard to place her age. She has a bit of subcutaneous fat that is usually missing by mid 40s.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Check this out. Layne Norton. 39 years old. Phd in Nutritional Sciences. Award-winning in bodybuilding / powerlifting contests. He is a big promoter and CICO, and flexible dieting. Condemns both vegans and carnivores. Claims that red meat, in moderation in healthy. Believes in the LDL - heart disease hypothesis.
Promotes high carb & high protein diets generally.
The lighting does him good in the video, but I'd say he looks good for a 39-year old man. Muscular physique, androgenic facial features (he naturally has high T levels), some recession on the hairline, but other than that, he is in quite good shape.
Also he likely never took steroids.

I remember he did a podcast debate with Shawn Baker on Mark Bell podcast. Everyone in the comments mentioning how he was drinking a Monster energy drink and how they can't take him seriously because of that.

 

[Jon2547]

**In my experience:

1) too low fat causes issues
•low libido
•fatigue
•brain fog
•sluggish digestion
•feeling of "clogged" liver

2) too high fat causes issues
•too full after meals
•decreased appetite
•diarrhea
•cold hands and feet
•indigestion

3) too low protein causes issues
•weakness
•hungry all the time
•loss of muscle mass

4) too high protein causes issues
•constipation
•lowered appetite
•adrenaline rushes
•cold hands and feet

5) too low carb causes issues
•adrenaline rushes
•cold hands and feet
•wired feeling
•stressed feeling
•sleep issues
•mood issues

6) too high carb causes issues
•low libido
•hungry all the time
•alot of carb based foods can cause
digestive issues for people
•hard to eat enough food
•cold hands and feet

7) the wrong types of fats, carbs, and
proteins cause issues
•too much SAFA causes weird
feeling at my liver and give me bile acid
diarrhea (I dont have a gallbladder)
•PUFA's seem to induce inflammation
•too much MUFA's make me spacey
and too relaxed
•starches make me feel good if I have
one meal, on one day randomly
but if I eat them over a few days or
more than one meal a day I get acne,
cold hands and feet, sluggish digestion,
brain fog, joint pain, and loss of
appetite
•Theres a limit to fruit and fruit juice,
at a certain point I just dont want more.
•Plant proteins wreck my digestion
including beans, nuts, seeds, grains,
and many vegetables
•Animal proteins make me feel great
unless I eat too much at once, then I
can get constipation and colonic
irritation

8) People vary in what works for them:
•Some of my clients do better with
starches
•Some of my clients do better with
sugars from fruit (refined sugars seem
to cause issues in almost everyone
over time)
•Some clients do better with higher fat
•Some do better on lower fat
•Some need more protein
•Some do better with a little less

9) The consistent things I have seen
across the people I have worked with
are:
•Most grains, beans, nuts, and seeds
seem to be problematic for peoples
digestion, especially if not prepared
well. The exception is white rice.
•Milk and dairy are hit and miss. Some
people do great with it, some feel
terrible no matter what they try to
"make it work"
•Almost all processed foods (candies,
sodas, cakes, pastries; the dollar store/
grocery packaged crap) cause issues
for people over time
•Pretty everyone does better removing
PUFA oils from their diet
•Meeting Macronutrient and
Micronutrient requirements is important

10) The range of dietary options I have
seen work best for people has been:
-Yams, tubers, squashes, carrots,
other root vegetables
-Fruits
-Cooked leafy greens (hit or miss)
-Dairy (hit or miss)
-animal protein sources (ruminants,
eggs, lean poultry, seafood)
-Saturated/ monounsaturated fat
sources (macadamia nut oil, butter,
tallow, olive oil, chocolate/ cocoa
butter, coconut oil, fatty beef, egg
yolks)


**Overall I think questions of Keto/ carnivore or Vegan/ plant based are useless. Theres no need to present two opposing sides as if you have to choose between one or the other, its a distraction. I think figuring out what works best for you based on how you feel within certain principles is the goal. Principles in no specific order:

1) Eat nutrient dense foods, with minimal
toxins and high digestibility "you are
what you absorb"
2) Reach your macronutrient goals
3) Reach your micronutrient goals
4) Eat foods that work for your body

There is more nuance to this but in general these are the 20% that get people the 80% in my experience. The nuances get hammered out with awareness and self experimentation overtime.

Clash, you covered quite a bit in this post and I really agree with what you've said. That sums it up quite well.

 

[nomoreketones]

Doesn't he live in SoCal? He probably gets frequent sun exposure daily.

He moved to Miami Beach in 2019.

 

[Jessie]

He moved to Miami Beach in 2019.

Ah, well I'm sure that didn't affect is sun exposure much. He just traded the hippies for the Cubans, probably a trade I would make too . I'm not much for the California lifestyle, or their high living standards.