Low carb dieters look so much older

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Is it me or do the low carb gurus look significantly older?

Peter Attia, Joe Rogan, Mark Sisson, Gary Taubes, Shawn Baker

They all have one thing in common, their faces (and hairlines) look so much worse but they have shredded physiques.
 

Jessie

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It's not an uncommon occurrence to see from low carb lifestyles. There's no getting around the excessive aging effects of cortisol, and there's no way to "normalize" cortisol on a low carb diet. It's always going stay elevated if you're using fat for primary fuel source. You might could lower it with drugs, but that would just make you tired or lethargic by crashing your stress-metabolism.
 

tankasnowgod

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Is it me or do the low carb gurus look significantly older?

Peter Attia, Joe Rogan, Mark Sisson, Gary Taubes, Shawn Baker

They all have one thing in common, their faces (and hairlines) look so much worse but they have shredded physiques.

Sisson is 67. Taubes, 65. Sisson looks really good for 67, although I don't know how low carb he actually is. Taubes doesn't look bad for 65.

I don't know how much that has to do with their current diet, or even how strictly they follow their own advice.
 

baccheion

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It's not an uncommon occurrence to see from low carb lifestyles. There's no getting around the excessive aging effects of cortisol, and there's no way to "normalize" cortisol on a low carb diet. It's always going stay elevated if you're using fat for primary fuel source. You might could lower it with drugs, but that would just make you tired or lethargic by crashing your stress-metabolism.
Does this apply if fat adapted? That is, preceded by keto/carnivore. I'd imagine cortisol goes up to increase gluconeogenesis? Maybe to also alkalize urine, something less needed with enough electrolytes?
 

OccamzRazer

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In general I think you're right.

Some.people seem to do great on low carb, however:

Todd White (the natural wine guy)

Louis Villasenor (keto bodybuilder)

Both of them look fantastic for their age IMO.
 

Jessie

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Does this apply if fat adapted? That is, preceded by keto/carnivore. I'd imagine cortisol goes up to increase gluconeogenesis? Maybe to also alkalize urine, something less needed with enough electrolytes?
Yeah preciously. When the body becomes fat "adapted" it still needs glucose, so it'll either breakdown the muscle tissue the organism already has, or steal the proteins from the diet that would've otherwise went towards muscle protein synthesis. It seems like, even on the cell level, it's impossible to get ahead while eating low carb.
 

Jessie

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In general I think you're right.

Some.people seem to do great on low carb, however:

Todd White (the natural wine guy)

Louis Villasenor (keto bodybuilder)

Both of them look fantastic for their age IMO.
I don't know who they are, but some people can probably age better than others depending on their hormonal status, like DHEA for example. They could also be getting exogenous hormones. It would be interesting to know what their cholesterol levels are. Pretty much anyone that's been on the keto diet longer than a few months is going to have elevated cholesterol from a lack of hormone production.
 

nomoreketones

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Yeah preciously. When the body becomes fat "adapted" it still needs glucose, so it'll either breakdown the muscle tissue the organism already has, or steal the proteins from the diet that would've otherwise went towards muscle protein synthesis. It seems like, even on the cell level, it's impossible to get ahead while eating low carb.
I think the jury is still out on a lot of these concepts.

So if someone is eating a low carb diet (not ketogenic) and has nuts and berries in their diet, that person could be adding to their liver glycogen stores. So if the individual never runs out of liver glycogen due to being "fat adapted" will there be a stress response? Why would there be a stress response if there is still glycogen in the liver? I don't think the body would need to break down muscle for fuel if the individual eats enough nuts/berries to keep some amount of glycogen in his liver at all times. I think it has been scientifically established that ketosis increases stress hormones. But eating low carb with just enough carbs to prevent liver glycogen from being depleted but not enough carbs to fully top of the liver glycogen may not produce stress response like a keto diet would?

If a person eating low carb eats plenty of soluble fiber then, depending on the makeup of the person's gut microbiome, the person may be producing and absorbing a good amount of propionate and butyrate. These fuels can be used by some cells that can't use regular FFA. So maybe this could prevent the stress response from happening too?

Also the idea is floating around that saturated fat activates transporters that can carry endotoxin right through the intestinal barrier into the bloodstream without the intestinal barrier being damaged. I don't know if this idea is proven but if it is then the stress response associated with low carb could be caused by endotoxin rather than burning fat? Then would the person be able to lower the stress response by eating whole foods higher in monosaturated fats and polyunsaturated fats? I know that is sacrilege but there are a lot of variables to consider. If some low carb diets promote the stress response, does that mean that all low carb diets promote the stress response?
 

VendettaRed911

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In general I think you're right.

Some.people seem to do great on low carb, however:

Todd White (the natural wine guy)

Louis Villasenor (keto bodybuilder)

Both of them look fantastic for their age IMO.
That Todd White guy doesn't look that good...

Luis looks alright (around his age), and yeah, we don't know what "supplements" he takes

Also, it seems like a ton of the keto guys are all on exogenous hormones (TRT, HGH). Sisson is for sure. So is Peter.
1620043903995.png
Not full natty brah...
 

VendettaRed911

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It's not an uncommon occurrence to see from low carb lifestyles. There's no getting around the excessive aging effects of cortisol, and there's no way to "normalize" cortisol on a low carb diet. It's always going stay elevated if you're using fat for primary fuel source. You might could lower it with drugs, but that would just make you tired or lethargic by crashing your stress-metabolism.
What does Peat say about high carb vegans? They seem to look pretty good
1620044110239.png
1620044149789.png
Rashad Evans (UFC Fighter) before vegan:
1620044224226.png
Vegan:
1620044328426.png
Snip20210503_1.png
Like aging in reverse!
 
Last edited:

OccamzRazer

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OccamzRazer

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What does Peat say about high carb vegans? They seem to look pretty good
View attachment 23208
View attachment 23209
Rashad Evans (UFC Fighter) before vegan:
View attachment 23210
Vegan:
View attachment 23211
View attachment 23212
Like aging in reverse!
On a more serious note, Peat seems to like the idea of a high-carb, fruit-based vegan diet. He has a quote on such a diet being feasible IF the fruit is fresh/tropical.

A diet of just fruit, milk, and glycine/collagen/gelatin could be pretty cool.
 

OccamzRazer

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That Todd White guy doesn't look that good...

Luis looks alright (around his age), and yeah, we don't know what "supplements" he takes

Also, it seems like a ton of the keto guys are all on exogenous hormones (TRT, HGH). Sisson is for sure. So is Peter.
View attachment 23207
Not full natty brah...
To each their own...I guess looks are subjective.

Louis looks great for 40s IMO. But then again, so does Durianrider.

You don't think Sisson is natural? Maybe not, as he has a lot to gain [or lose] from his appearance...but I think such a physique is doable even in older age.
 

Jessie

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I think the jury is still out on a lot of these concepts.

So if someone is eating a low carb diet (not ketogenic) and has nuts and berries in their diet, that person could be adding to their liver glycogen stores. So if the individual never runs out of liver glycogen due to being "fat adapted" will there be a stress response? Why would there be a stress response if there is still glycogen in the liver? I don't think the body would need to break down muscle for fuel if the individual eats enough nuts/berries to keep some amount of glycogen in his liver at all times. I think it has been scientifically established that ketosis increases stress hormones. But eating low carb with just enough carbs to prevent liver glycogen from being depleted but not enough carbs to fully top of the liver glycogen may not produce stress response like a keto diet would?

If a person eating low carb eats plenty of soluble fiber then, depending on the makeup of the person's gut microbiome, the person may be producing and absorbing a good amount of propionate and butyrate. These fuels can be used by some cells that can't use regular FFA. So maybe this could prevent the stress response from happening too?

Also the idea is floating around that saturated fat activates transporters that can carry endotoxin right through the intestinal barrier into the bloodstream without the intestinal barrier being damaged. I don't know if this idea is proven but if it is then the stress response associated with low carb could be caused by endotoxin rather than burning fat? Then would the person be able to lower the stress response by eating whole foods higher in monosaturated fats and polyunsaturated fats? I know that is sacrilege but there are a lot of variables to consider. If some low carb diets promote the stress response, does that mean that all low carb diets promote the stress response?
Danny quoted a study that found chimpanzees had higher cortisol when their carbohydrate dropped below 200 grams. There's also some human studies that have found T3 levels decline when carbohydrate is below 125 grams. So, if this is a "matter of degree" then sure, those that eat more carbs compared to those that eat less carbs might be slightly less stressed. However, another, far more scientific, way to answer this same question would be those that have less FAO are less stressed than those that have more FAO. But you'll never see low carbers make this argument, because it's not so much an argument as it is a concession. Instead they rather make the point that high cortisol is a good thing actually. This is exactly the argument people like Sisson make, I followed his blog for years. You can find tons of stuff on there about cortisol's amazing fat burning abilities, lol. Cortisol is dubbed the "fat burning" hormone, not the stress hormone. Except, he does contradict everything he preaches when he recommends carb refeeds to lose lingering bodyfat that hasn't went away on standard low carb. His justification? Carb refeeds lower cortisol to shed bodyfat, lmao. It's all a huge circle jerk from these clowns.

The real question we ought to be asking is, if non-keto low carb diets (125-150 grams of carbs) cause less cortisol than keto diets, which means less fatty acid oxidation is less stressful than more fatty acid oxidation, then what's the point to eating low carb at all? If I take only 1/2 tsp of arsenic that would be better than taking a tablespoon. But the justification for taking either is absurd. I don't think the thing about saturated fats and endotoxin will ever be proven (in humans anyways) because I think saturated fats are probably only harmful to people with intestinal dysbiosis. It can't pull endotoxin into the serum if the endotoxin isn't there to begin with (bare in mind, there's always some endotoxin, and some is actually good. But you don't want a lot).

What does Peat say about high carb vegans? They seem to look pretty good
View attachment 23208
View attachment 23209
Rashad Evans (UFC Fighter) before vegan:
View attachment 23210
Vegan:
View attachment 23211
View attachment 23212
Like aging in reverse!
I think someone asked Peat on the herb doctor episodes about fruitarian diets and his reply was something like "more protein would be better." I guess the main issue with fruit based diets is the low protein intake will eventually become anti-thyroid. However I do think high carb vegans are suppressing FAO, which could result in more resilience to certain diseases. Particularly stuff like diabetes and heart disease. Walt Kempner proved that 100 years ago.
 

OccamzRazer

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Yucca

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...you still don't want to understand that after an initial raise, cortisol comes back to perfectly normal values when you get fat adapted.
Jeff Volek did a clinical study who proves this (and proves also that there's absolutely no hormonal disturbances with a keto diet), and there's a few others proofs if you search.
I was 54 last year on this pic (no steroids if you ask, but Keto and IF 18h/day,and my testosterone levels were never as high, even when I was young), training with weights + sprints only about 3-4x/w, 30-45mn sessions, no more.
613-E23-E1-88-F9-4-E82-9-F7-B-41-D688-D8398-A.jpg
...no visible wrinkles on the face also, if you ask...
 
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