Individual Variation In Body Temperature

[TheSir]

How much do temperatures of individuals with healthy thyroid vary from each other? How much do factors such as body size affect someone's default temperature? Can someone be healthy even at lower temperatures?

I have had low basal temperature for my whole life. I wake up with 35.5c/96f and rarely go above 36.5c/97.7f in the afternoon. Nothing I have tried has changed this: eating more food, eating nutritious food, using supplements, exercising more, getting sunlight, sleeping enough. High doses of alcohol, caffeine or cannabis sativa can temporarily bring me to around 37.2c/99f, but I would feel spaced out and feverish, rather than healthy.

My thyroid values are within acceptable range, with TSH being at 1.5 and T3/4 in the middle of their reference ranges. My resting pulse is about 60.

In my quest to elevate my body temperature, could I be trying to fix an issue that does not exist to begin with?

 

[yerrag]

I don't think so.

If you're not reaching normal temperature, it's not for lack of trying, but more for not knowing how to- at least not yet.

Your basis for determining you're euthyroid isn't solid. And having normal temperature is part of that determination. Another way to test is using the Achilles Tendon Reflex test. Yet another is to see if the QTc value in an ECG is below 440 msec to know you're not hypothyroid.

The key to it is having an optimal sugar metabolism. Well, even being sub- optimal can still get you to normal temperature. Like myself, I have normal body temps, but my resting heart rate is 54 upon waking up, and 68 during the day, whereas it would be around say 85 when my metabolism is much closer to optimal.

So you'll have to know all the factors involved and then see which of these factors you need some work on. Things such as-

-oxygen carrying capacity of blood
-blood sugar stability
-nutritional deficiencies
-acid-base balance
-absence of toxins
-absence of system infection
-absence of inflammation

On nutritional deficiencies, there are so many ways one could be deficient it's like a chain where it's as strong as the weakest link in the chain.

It would be safe to say you haven't exhausted all the gotchas.

Keep working on it though. If you have a method to it, the better. I'm saying this only because I've come a long way myself, and having gone through it, I've improved a lot. But I'm far from perfect still health wise, and I keep trying to unravel yet another mystery in another poor aspect of my health.
-

 

[TheSir]

@yerrag

Thank you for your answer. The more I look into this, the more I realize how big all of this is, whereas me and my understanding are so small. You list some of the factors that are relevant in determining one's metabolic status, yet I don't even know where to begin. Deficiencies could be the result of malfunctioning, and malfunctioning the result of a deficiency -- it is very hard to get to the core of the problem. I.e. what is the most fundamental cause of any given problem? How to address the cause, rather than the symptoms? It's so easy to be paralyzed by all these possibilities. Why is being healthy so complex? Common sense says it shouldn't have to be.

 

[yerrag]

It's easy to become overwhelmed, and I was hoping I didn't make you feel that way. Yet if you can break down what you need to study about into compartments, with a view to their interrelated-ness as part of a whole system, I think you can find your inquiry to be a more manageable one.

You can check Hans' website (he posts regularly about topics that interest us referring. members to his website) and you can find in there many posts that would be relevant to you.

It's an easier read than going thru Peat's website and choosing which article to read. You can augment that with focused topic searches on this forum to find good threads.

One thing that helped me very well was I literally went cold-turkey for 4 years on PUFA. While I doubted the idea, I was willing to put it to the test even if it took 4 years. I kept myself busy on other things, and one day I just realized it's been 4 years, and I decided to test myself for blood sugar regulation improvement. Previously, I couldn't take sugar by itself on an empty stomach. I'd go hungry more quickly than if I just didn't eat a teaspoon of sugar. Not only did I not get hungry, but I found I could fast an entire day. I was also eating brown rice for 20 years already, because white sugar made me hungry quickly, and I'd feel also sleepy after a while. But I now find eating white rice to be fine, and I'd have good energy levels all day. I also could fast for a day easily. That meant my blood sugar regulation had greatly improved. This one improvement got me psyched, as it made me a believer.

Then I went on to improve my body temperature. Then to improve my acid-base balance.

But it wasn't smooth sailing all throughout. I was also trying to fix my high blood pressure, and I did a few things that inadvertently caused me to lose my seemingly perfect blood sugar control. I put on 20 lbs. In the process of fixing an issue, I created a problem I didn't have. These 'side-effects' happen, and I had to take a detour to investigate. I soon found out how that happened, and learned one more thing.

When you're the test subject itself, you learn a lot. You know also why that worked for you, and you also know it's not something that you would just recommend to somebody else because your context is not the same as others.

It's often I come across people giving advice right out of his playbook, without first understanding the context of that person, invariably forcing his context into someone else's context. Rather than giving help, he could just as easily be giving a U-turn detour.

It's also tempting to try many substances as you see many substances being discussed in the forum. My advice is keep it simple first, and focus on good nutrition. Go about fixing nutritional deficiencies and sub- optimal regulation of processes rather than going straight into taking substances that give you an instant improvement. If your body is working optimally in the first place, you wouldn't be needing those things. But if you became hooked on those things, you're just going to lose focus on making your body do the work for your health. You may just as well go to a conventional doctor to get a maintenance drug.

I think you want to learn to make your body dependable on its own, by knowing how to feed your body the right simple ingredients in the form of nutritious food, keeping supplementation to a minimum. It is achievable.

But this just my opinion.

 

[redsun]

In my quest to elevate my body temperature, could I be trying to fix an issue that does not exist to begin with?

No. You are basically a whole degree off. This is hypothyroid temperature. Every health condition or problem you may have is exacerbated tenfold because of your low temperature. You may be anemic (iron, B12, folate deficiency) or just plain iron deficient or missing something else. But iron would be the first thing to look at if you have been eating the right kinds of foods, which means whole foods primarily with plenty of carbs (and protein).

The most abundant trace mineral in the body is iron. Its not only needed for blood and thus oxygen transport, it is intimately involved in making ATP especially in the electron transport chain (where most of it is made). If you lack iron in the cells due to deficiency, your ability to make enough ATP is severely impaired. If ATP is low, thyroid will also be low and thus body temperature will never normalize no matter what you do because many of the ETC enzymes are iron-dependent.

Also in general, figuring out where your micronutrients intakes are via cronometer to see if something is lacking if you haven't already. Most nutrients, especially the trace minerals (iron, zinc, copper, manganese, selenium) should be obtained from more bioavailable sources which is animal products and fruits.

 

[Lucas]

What if a person have high ferritin but low serun iron it means that the cels are deficient on it because it is stored but not in circulation to make atp so this person will have anemic symptons?

 

[Collden]

How much do temperatures of individuals with healthy thyroid vary from each other? How much do factors such as body size affect someone's default temperature? Can someone be healthy even at lower temperatures?

I have had low basal temperature for my whole life. I wake up with 35.5c/96f and rarely go above 36.5c/97.7f in the afternoon. Nothing I have tried has changed this: eating more food, eating nutritious food, using supplements, exercising more, getting sunlight, sleeping enough. High doses of alcohol, caffeine or cannabis sativa can temporarily bring me to around 37.2c/99f, but I would feel spaced out and feverish, rather than healthy.

My thyroid values are within acceptable range, with TSH being at 1.5 and T3/4 in the middle of their reference ranges. My resting pulse is about 60.

In my quest to elevate my body temperature, could I be trying to fix an issue that does not exist to begin with?

Symptoms are a better indicator than temperature. Do you have an health complaints consistent with hypothyroidism? If not I would stop worrying about it.

 

[TheSir]

I think you want to learn to make your body dependable on its own, by knowing how to feed your body the right simple ingredients in the form of nutritious food, keeping supplementation to a minimum. It is achievable.

Agree, this would be ideal. Depending on supplements beyond limited therapeutic/experimental use is not a direction I'm interested in taking. Doing so appears to create new problems down the line. Regarding sugar & PUFA depletion, like you, I've been using minimal amounts of PUFA for several years now. Short term fasting does not seem to cause problems, so blood sugar control should be at least decent.

No. You are basically a whole degree off.

So are you of the opinion that 37 is an universal healthy temperature regardless of the context? That no individual variation exists? My ferritin is close to the ideal range for thyroid functioning (130 ng/ml), and cronometer has not revealed any glaring holes in nutrition intake. B-vit status is unknown, I've experimented with every other b-vitamin except B1, which is what I'm going to do soon.

Symptoms are a better indicator than temperature. Do you have an health complaints consistent with hypothyroidism?

Though I don't have obvious issues, I do have some symptoms that allude to suboptimal metabolism, such as requiring 9-10 hours of sleep a night and only having one bowel movement per day. I also experience mild kind of cognitive sluggishness/inattentiveness/daydreaming, which is at least partly explained by my natural cognitive temperament (akin to the absent-minded professor archetype).

I might consider turning this thread into a log where I document my experiments and their effects.

 

[redsun]

So are you of the opinion that 37 is an universal healthy temperature regardless of the context? That no individual variation exists? My ferritin is close to the ideal range for thyroid functioning (130 ng/ml), and cronometer has not revealed any glaring holes in nutrition intake. B-vit status is unknown, I've experimented with every other b-vitamin except B1, which is what I'm going to do soon.

Yes 37.0 C/98.6 F or very very close to it. Even slightly elevated isn't a problem. 97.7 F being around the highest it goes is not close and indicates some kind of issue. Just ferritin does not show a good picture of iron status. Hans has a good article on this, and if you do decide to get a more comprehensive test, he may help interpret your results if you have trouble interpreting them yourself.

How to interpret your iron panel blood test for optimal energy and health » MENELITE

 

[lampofred]

Serotonin (specifically high free fatty acids) unhealthily raises body temperature. A high serotonin person can have a higher temperature than a low serotonin one but still be more hypothyroid. And high FFA makes you intolerant of higher temperatures because as temperatures rise FFA rises even more.

I think sugar and high calcium to phosphate ratio lowers FFA and paradoxically raises thyroid while lowering temps in the long-run.

 

[TheSir]

Yes 37.0 C/98.6 F or very very close to it. Even slightly elevated isn't a problem. 97.7 F being around the highest it goes is not close and indicates some kind of issue. Just ferritin does not show a good picture of iron status. Hans has a good article on this, and if you do decide to get a more comprehensive test, he may help interpret your results if you have trouble interpreting them yourself.

How to interpret your iron panel blood test for optimal energy and health » MENELITE

Ah, that's a lot of tests. Simply getting ferritin checked cost 60€, with that rate it is going to cost 500€ just to verify the status of a single mineral. How I wish I had a home lab.

 

[AdoTintor]

its seems quite tight that Broda Barnes considers 36.6C or below to be Hypo, and 36.8C and above to be Hyper. Surely there has to be a large individual variation around the mean that would mess such diagnosis up. There must be more recent studies documenting the individual variation around the mean.

 

[JKX]

its seems quite tight that Broda Barnes considers 36.6C or below to be Hypo, and 36.8C and above to be Hyper. Surely there has to be a large individual variation around the mean that would mess such diagnosis up. There must be more recent studies documenting the individual variation around the mean.

That's waking temps you are quoting. And you should be around those on waking, if not a little higher. Perhaps more important is that your temps rise after breakfast and continue to into the afternoon. If temps drop after eating you are running on stress whuch the food is lowering.

Temps will vary slightly with environment, sure.

We're getting into autum/ winter where I live and its a bit chilly. I still wake at 37 and rise to around 37.8 during the late afternoon. We're having to take forehead temps to get into work atm. My colleagues think I'm weird because I'm usually 1°c higher than most of the office in the morning. There is a definate trend of younger people in the office running higher temps. Hypothyroidism seems to be a true epidemic.

 

[yerrag]

There is a definate trend of younger people in the office running higher temps. Hypothyroidism seems to be a true epidemic.

?
Higher temps = Hypothyroidism?

You must mean hyperthyroidism.

We're getting into autum/ winter where I live and its a bit chilly. I still wake at 37 and rise to around 37.8 during the late afternoon.

This is not typical. Perhaps you have some sort of chronic infection? Or if not that, chronic endotoxin levels. Endotoxin can lead to increased temperatures also.

 

[JKX]

?
Higher temps = Hypothyroidism?

You must mean hyperthyroidism.



This is not typical. Perhaps you have some sort of chronic infection? Or if not that, chronic endotoxin levels. Endotoxin can lead to increased temperatures also.

Perhaps my text was misleading. Comparing the folks in the office the under 30s definately have higher temps. There is a definate trend of lower temps with increasing age.

Thanks for the diagnosis, but no. My health is good. That trend in my temps appeared after using progesterone for a while and since stopping its use my temps have remained at this level.

If I had an endotoxin problem I'd also have a liver problem and notable reduction in respiration due to serotonin. My breathing is incredibly deep and easy. No stuffy nose. My eyes would also not be clear and white. I've been doing this a while and I'm incredibly sensitive to things which increase serotonin.

 

[yerrag]

Perhaps my text was misleading. Comparing the folks in the office the under 30s definately have higher temps. There is a definate trend of lower temps with increasing age.

Thanks for the diagnosis, but no. My health is good. That trend in my temps appeared after using progesterone for a while and since stopping its use my temps have remained at this level.

If I had an endotoxin problem I'd also have a liver problem and notable reduction in respiration due to serotonin. My breathing is incredibly deep and easy. No stuffy nose. My eyes would also not be clear and white. I've been doing this a while and I'm incredibly sensitive to things which increase serotonin.

Well then, you must be a person would be glad to shake hands with on a cold winter day. I know my cats would really warm up with you and would cuddle around you. You are much closer to their temps, and maybe even higher lol.

 

[JKX]

Well then, you must be a person would be glad to shake hands with on a cold winter day. I know my cats would really warm up with you and would cuddle around you. You are much closer to their temps, and maybe even higher lol.

That's funny because my sisters cats always make a beeline for my lap any time I visit. Their interest seems to vary from person to person. They're a selective pair. You're either serving their purpose or they're not interested! No middle ground.

You take your cats temps? ☺ So they are kind of Peaty in that respect?

My temp change has been substantial with progesterone. I eventually stopped using it because I hit 38.1°c one afternoon and I was getting a bit too sweaty. That was an ear measurement.

There's always the possibility that the temp gauge isnt that accurate. Again, if I felt bad I'd see it as an issue, but that's not the case.

I think you've peaked my interest enough for me to take my pulse and temps again three times a day for a few weeks. It will be an interesting experiment.

 

[yerrag]

You take your cats temps? ☺ So they are kind of Peaty in that respect?

I can feel they're warmer than me. When one is sick, he would feel less warm, but still warmer than me. They're not peaty though as they don't digest carbs very well.

They'll only cuddle with me when I have the AC on, as now I'm providing them heat that warms them up in the colder room. When one is sick, he'll also like to sleep with me so I can provide warmth.

My temp change has been substantial with progesterone. I eventually stopped using it because I hit 38.1°c one afternoon and I was getting a bit too sweaty. That was an ear measurement.

I remember overdosing on progesterone once and it made me shiver. Although I was at 38C as a result of the OD, it was weird that I felt cold.

I think you've peaked my interest enough for me to take my pulse and temps again three times a day for a few weeks. It will be an interesting experiment.

If you still have high temps, I'd check on your wbc and your differential count to look for clues as to why your temps are up that much. I only start with the cbc test because it is a cheap test, as it only cost me $4 where I'm at.

 

[AdoTintor]

That trend in my temps appeared after using progesterone for a while and since stopping its use my temps have remained at this level.

If I had an endotoxin problem I'd also have a liver problem and notable reduction in respiration due to serotonin. My breathing is incredibly deep and easy. No stuffy nose. My eyes would also not be clear and white. I've been doing this a while and I'm incredibly sensitive to things which increase serotonin.

What was the progesterone sorting out do you think? that then allowed your temps to rise

 

[JKX]

In all honesty I believe its a bit of a fix all metabolically. I was very hypo when I first came across Rays work but I couldn't get NDT to work. I'd take it for a couple of weeks then start getting achy legs. It was making me more hypo as I assume at that time I wasnt converting T4 to T3 efficiently.

Progesterone bypassed this problem immediately raising thyroid for me. It also shrunk a small lump in my neck the docs told me was harmless. Not sure what it was but I assume it might have been anything from a small cyst to a goiter or a thyroid nodule. Its completely gone now. My temps rose within a few days of starting progesterone.