Good Values for Omega-6 Fatty Acids

[pboy]

its sad because im sure there are some people here that appreciate, but whatever...if its basically direct ray peat quote or nothing...then theres no point in me even talking about anything..in fact, why even have the forum? just make a quotes list, and put 'acceptable things to say or suggest' in one column, and 'blasphemy to even mention' in another. Ray is pretty much the opposite of this, but somehow people put the guy in a box that he probably doesn't even want to be in. Do you realize how much info even he has changed throughout his life? book to book? youre supposed to be growing and learning new things, honing, unless you assume you are literally perfect right now

 

[jyb]

Edit: removed message. I don't think what I wrote about is useful.

 

[Blossom]

I think it's up to each and everyone of us as individuals to decide what Peat's work means to us personally. I'm sure Peat wouldn't want it any other way. Ironically I had flax meal as an ingredient in a dish my daughter lovingly prepared for our dinner this evening. I haven't had flax in years nor do I plan on having it again. I took some extra Vitamin E and shared a wonderful dinner with my daughter. I think what we eat consistently is what really matters. And as Peat has mentioned in radio interviews we should enjoy our food. :2cents

 

[BingDing]

its sad because im sure there are some people here that appreciate, but whatever...

I assume you mean there are some people on this forum that appreciate your effort to discuss PUFAs, and it's sad that people like me object to how you do it. I agree with the first part, I am one of those that do appreciate it. I don't agree with the second part because the objection is important, IMO.

if its basically direct ray peat quote or nothing...then theres no point in me even talking about anything..in fact, why even have the forum? just make a quotes list, and put 'acceptable things to say or suggest' in one column, and 'blasphemy to even mention' in another.

You totally misunderstand why I object to your posts. It isn't a quote contest, it's a matter of understanding what RP is telling us. He has written entire articles about the harm PUFAs do. He has mentioned the harmful effects of PUFAs hundreds of times (a rough estimate). RP posited that 4g/day is manageable, possibly because it is almost impossible to eat less without special lab prepared food.

IMO, an understanding of RP starts with supporting thyroid function and cellular respiration. Just about the next biggest step is minimizing PUFAs. That's why it is easy to find quotes.

You have no RP quotes to battle with because he has never said anything that supports your position, or at least you haven't brought it to our attention. That is why your posts do so little to further an understanding of his ideas. And why your stubborn refusal to acknowledge it is so irritating.

Ray is pretty much the opposite of this, but somehow people put the guy in a box that he probably doesn't even want to be in. Do you realize how much info even he has changed throughout his life? book to book? youre supposed to be growing and learning new things, honing, unless you assume you are literally perfect right now

I suppose it is possible that RP missed that recent study showing PUFAs are so healthy. Or, maybe, he wasn't convinced so he didn't put it in his newsletter.

Speaking for myself, I am growing and learning new things all the time, that is the single best thing about trying LSD when I was a teenager. And that spirit is a big part of what attracted me to Ray in the first place. It's just that I haven't learned anything useful from you.

 

[BingDing]

Whew, thank you Blossom! I needed a little whiff of perspective. It has a kind of citrus aroma, with a hint of coca-cola, LOL.

 

[pboy]

awesome

 

[Filip1993]

"The best thing would be a diet that is high in both fat and carbohydrates, with less than 10g PUFAs per day. But this can be somewhat difficult to achieve without gaining weight and raising stress hormones too much. It is still a mystery for me how you could eat a high-fat diet while keeping FFA levels low. But there is evidence of this, I can't deny that. It seems to happen mostly in cultures that get their fat from dairy or coconut, two types of fat that cannot be stored easily and tend to be converted to ketones, even in the presence of glucose."- Dewitt


"I was always aware of the fact that it is primarily the PUFA fraction of FFAs that is harmful. Up until now, my strategy was to supress FFA levels through a high carbohydrate intake. However, it occurs to me that the displacement of the PUFA fraction through SFA intake might be more appropriate.

Methylglyoxal is also formed during glycolysis, so it shouldn't matter very much if you use ketogenesis or glycolysis in this context. Humans are also very good at detoxifying methylglyoxal.

I doubt that CO2 yield differs very much. Saturated fat and the ketones uncouple oxidative phosphorylation and increase oxygen consumption while decreasing lactic acid production when compared to glucose, so it would seem to me that the CO2 yield should at least be equal to glucose."- Dewitt


"There's nothing wrong with lowering carbohydrate intake if the missing calories are replaced with saturated fat, especially if the saturated fat is rich in MCTs and SCTs (milk and coconut). Beta-hydroxy butyric acid is a superior fuel when compared with glucose due to its specific effects on cellular respiration. Apart from that, the three main oxidative metabolism pathways yield pretty much the same results in terms of energy production:

Fatty acid beta oxidation -> Acetyl-CoA -> Consumption in Krebs Cycle
Glucose oxidation -> Acetyl-CoA -> Consumption in Krebs Cycle
Ketone metabolism -> Acetyl-CoA -> Consumption in Krebs Cycle

However, it needs to be taken into account that some tissues prefer specific fuels and that they have various different effects on endocrine parameters and cellular respiration.

A certain amount of carbohydrates is necessary and since galactose is the only carbohydrate that doesn't cause anaerobic glycolysis and cellular malfunction, it seems to be the safest and most beneficial choice. It's unique in that it can only be metabolized by oxidative phosphorylation and increases oxigen consumption. (The anaerobic glycolysis caused by glucose and fructose might be absent in PUFA-deficient people)" - Dewitt

"Some research suggests that, per carbon atom, fatty acid metabolization yields more ATP than glucose metabolization (even if glucose is completely oxidized). I haven't found a direct comparison to the fructose+glucose combo yet."- Dewitt

Just some interesting quotes on fats from Dewitt at peatarian.com.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't recommend eating lots of fat and suppressing their release, as they will build up in the liver.

 

[pboy]

ive been messing around lately in the case anyone is wondering, pure oils have had no effect other than basic calorie feel and in the case sunflower skin quickly changed, I don't know if its good or not but much more waxy feel. Eating pumpkin seeds and sunflower was disaster on teeth and a bit on gut. Im thinking if anything these oils are better as massage...they are probably safer that way also. Eating seeds...and nuts, no go...even sprouted or whatever. I sometimes wonder how I even survived when my diet was mainly grain and seed based...poor me

 

[Filip1993]

I don't recommend eating lots of fat and suppressing their release, as they will build up in the liver.

But is keeping pufa under 4 grams really necessary if your metabolism is good and you don't gain weight? Personally, I don't think so. If you are eating 3500 calories I think it will be hard to keep pufa under 4 grams if you don't eat very high carb which can work if you have a lot of money and time. I find eating more fat more convenient. I'm also warmer when I increase fat.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't recommend eating lots of fat and suppressing their release, as they will build up in the liver.

But is keeping pufa under 4 grams really necessary if your metabolism is good and you don't gain weight? Personally, I don't think so. If you are eating 3500 calories I think it will be hard to keep pufa under 4 grams if you don't eat very high carb which can work if you have a lot of money and time. I find eating more fat more convenient. I'm also warmer when I increase fat.

It depends, are you eating twice the four grams with twice the calories or are you eating ten times the four grams? I think the liver thing also goes for high carbohydrate. Just have an ultrasound or blood test once a year.

 

[Filip1993]

I don't eat more than 6 grams of PUFA in a day. What do you mean with the liver thing? Fatty liver?

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't eat more than 6 grams of PUFA in a day. What do you mean with the liver thing? Fatty liver?

Yes, fatty build up. Six grams seems pretty nice for all those calories!

 

[Filip1993]

I don't eat more than 6 grams of PUFA in a day. What do you mean with the liver thing? Fatty liver?

Yes, fatty build up. Six grams seems pretty nice for all those calories!

So you are saying both high fat diets and high carb diets causes fatty liver? Or am I missing something here?

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't eat more than 6 grams of PUFA in a day. What do you mean with the liver thing? Fatty liver?

Yes, fatty build up. Six grams seems pretty nice for all those calories!

So you are saying both high fat diets and high carb diets causes fatty liver? Or am I missing something here?

Yes I think so, especially when you are pushing hard with the progesterone and niacinamide. The liver depends on many things such as choline to shift fat around, and you have no way to know if you are increasing them just as much as you are increasing caloric input. If the fat is saturated it's just a bit of mechanical stress, nothing else.

 

[Filip1993]

Hmm, okey. So what is the solution then? Calorie restriction? Slowing down metabolism? Lowering fat intake? I'm just curious.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I guess take your vitamins and make sure you're burning fat some time of day.

 

[schultz]

I don't recommend eating lots of fat and suppressing their release, as they will build up in the liver.

But is keeping pufa under 4 grams really necessary if your metabolism is good and you don't gain weight? Personally, I don't think so. If you are eating 3500 calories I think it will be hard to keep pufa under 4 grams if you don't eat very high carb which can work if you have a lot of money and time. I find eating more fat more convenient. I'm also warmer when I increase fat.

I think Ray stated in a podcast that it's 4g or under for an average calorie diet and that it would scale with increased calories. Something like 3,500 would be more like 6-7g of PUFA or under. I'll try to find the podcast it's in (I think it's one of the east/west ones)

 

[tara]

I think Ray stated in a podcast that it's 4g or under for an average calorie diet and that it would scale with increased calories. Something like 3,500 would be more like 6-7g of PUFA or under. I'll try to find the podcast it's in (I think it's one of the east/west ones)

Can't resist pointing out that the assumption here is that an average calorie diet is about 2000-2400 cal, and that does not seem to be an average calorie diet. This is an inadequate diet for most people, and most people who are not actively (restrictive) dieting eat quite a bit more than this. Just maintaining my reputation. :)
(I'm not commenting on how much PUFA the body can deal with.)

 

[schultz]

I think Ray stated in a podcast that it's 4g or under for an average calorie diet and that it would scale with increased calories. Something like 3,500 would be more like 6-7g of PUFA or under. I'll try to find the podcast it's in (I think it's one of the east/west ones)

Can't resist pointing out that the assumption here is that an average calorie diet is about 2000-2400 cal, and that does not seem to be an average calorie diet. This is an inadequate diet for most people, and most people who are not actively (restrictive) dieting eat quite a bit more than this. Just maintaining my reputation. :)
(I'm not commenting on how much PUFA the body can deal with.)

That's true. I can only speculate as I don't quite remember the quote, but I thought it was also stated for a 2,000 calorie diet. I walked away thinking "for every 2000 calories, stay under 4g" anyway. I could be completely wrong though! I did look for the quote today but didn't hear it. I can only listen to so many podcasts a day so it may take me a while to find.

Next time I won't say anything until I have the proof haha.