Famotidine Lowers PTH By Almost 50%

[Texon]

@haidut @skycop00 Fascinating thread. I believe I have excess histamine issues that have plagued me since childhood although now I never have hay fever or similar symptom nowadays.. I have no gallbladder so I was prescribed the bile sequestrant Welchol to quell the overnight effects of bile secretion with nowhere to go, but I'm leery and haven't tried it yet. I've heard of using Caltrate for the same reason. I try to have oj and milk every day but may have to stop the oj due to acidity. Found out I'm homozygous for MTRR and COMT so b12 absorption and efficient metabolism of caffeine, adrenaline, dopamine, etc is difficult. Have been warned away from CBD for the same reason. I have to supplement b12. I also take Digest Basic for digestive enzymes, TRT injectable .25 cc E4D, t4 & t3 to raise temps, b vitamins, a few herbals now and then. Total and free T are 1158 and 20.5 so no complaints. I may actually reduce to .2 cc per dose instead of .25. Have had some unusual stress lately that has triggered feelings of sharp right sided stomach/intestinal pain (IBS?) even extending to pain between the last 2 toes on my right foot similar to feeling of athletes foot?? Sleep the last three days has been horrible...3-4 hrs max. It really hasn't been consistently good for years. So I tried the following for the first time yesterday...10 mg famotidine after dinner with 400 mgs magnesium glycinate; 20 mgs famotidine with sugared milk, half banana half a 25 mcg t4 at bedtime. Got drowsy on the famotidine. Slept 4 hrs woke up and drank remaining milk with rest of banana and took half a 25 mg benadryl. Slept another 4hrs. Btw tried to get cyproheptadine yesterday at CVS and the pharmacist gleefully said it was prescription only which I was surprised to learn. great when I woke up like the last 3 days never happened. What are your thoughts about 40 mgs split famotidine long term taken away from food for cited benefits? I have very limited tolerance for any pharma product,but I would dearly love to get sleep again like last night. What do you think might be the best global anti inflammatory for someone who is highly sensitive to so much stuff? Will try to obtain cyproheptadine some other way.

 

[Texon]

@haidut @skycop00 Should have added above, sensitive E2 was at 20 which is great, and I've done nothing special to maintain it except a lot of fresh squeezed oj every morning. Other than that I don't know what else would be controlling it.

 

[haidut]

@haidut @skycop00 Fascinating thread. I believe I have excess histamine issues that have plagued me since childhood although now I never have hay fever or similar symptom nowadays.. I have no gallbladder so I was prescribed the bile sequestrant Welchol to quell the overnight effects of bile secretion with nowhere to go, but I'm leery and haven't tried it yet. I've heard of using Caltrate for the same reason. I try to have oj and milk every day but may have to stop the oj due to acidity. Found out I'm homozygous for MTRR and COMT so b12 absorption and efficient metabolism of caffeine, adrenaline, dopamine, etc is difficult. Have been warned away from CBD for the same reason. I have to supplement b12. I also take Digest Basic for digestive enzymes, TRT injectable .25 cc E4D, t4 & t3 to raise temps, b vitamins, a few herbals now and then. Total and free T are 1158 and 20.5 so no complaints. I may actually reduce to .2 cc per dose instead of .25. Have had some unusual stress lately that has triggered feelings of sharp right sided stomach/intestinal pain (IBS?) even extending to pain between the last 2 toes on my right foot similar to feeling of athletes foot?? Sleep the last three days has been horrible...3-4 hrs max. It really hasn't been consistently good for years. So I tried the following for the first time yesterday...10 mg famotidine after dinner with 400 mgs magnesium glycinate; 20 mgs famotidine with sugared milk, half banana half a 25 mcg t4 at bedtime. Got drowsy on the famotidine. Slept 4 hrs woke up and drank remaining milk with rest of banana and took half a 25 mg benadryl. Slept another 4hrs. Btw tried to get cyproheptadine yesterday at CVS and the pharmacist gleefully said it was prescription only which I was surprised to learn. great when I woke up like the last 3 days never happened. What are your thoughts about 40 mgs split famotidine long term taken away from food for cited benefits? I have very limited tolerance for any pharma product,but I would dearly love to get sleep again like last night. What do you think might be the best global anti inflammatory for someone who is highly sensitive to so much stuff? Will try to obtain cyproheptadine some other way.

Great story, thanks for sharing. I think most people would get the benefits of famotidine from no more than 20mg daily. Higher doses are really not needed unless a person has something called Zollinger-Ellison syndrome. Even for ulcers, the optimal dose was found to be 20mg and higher doses were found to heal ulcers quicker but had higher rate of relapse. Of course your doctor may think otherwise in which case I would defer to him/her.

 

[Texon]

Great story, thanks for sharing. I think most people would get the benefits of famotidine from no more than 20mg daily. Higher doses are really not needed unless a person has something called Zollinger-Ellison syndrome. Even for ulcers, the optimal dose was found to be 20mg and higher doses were found to heal ulcers quicker but had higher rate of relapse. Of course your doctor may think otherwise in which case I would defer to him/her.

@skycop00 @gilson dantas Thanks haidut! This board has been such a great resource... Gilson my most recent homocysteine was 13.2 so I will continue 200-500 mgs tmg daily and test again. I understand pregnenolone was the go to anti inflammatory until prednisone was invented. I have tried it before in pill form and got anxious from it but haven't tried just the powder. My DO family doc is behind the curve in several ways but he knows I am careful so he is willing to let me experiment. I suppose he would be an easy resource for cyproheptadine if otherwise difficult to find. I am definitely looking for the best way to calm down reactivity to foods, meds, etc as best I can.

 

[Elize]

[QUOTE="Texon, post: 222640, I am definitely looking for the best way to calm down reactivity to foods, meds, etc as best I can.[/QUOTE]

Hi from Elize

Have similar issues and would like to know which product you are using. I am dealing with hypothyroid, Celiac disease and histamine problems causing sleep issues. Am looking for famotidine without gluten or dairy.

Thanks for any advice

 

[Iceman2016]

How about famotidine topically? Does it readily cross the dermis when compounded in appropriate vehicle? If it so effective with regard to calcification, perhaps it would be useful topically for male pattern baldness?

 

[biggirlkisss]

PTH is increased by phosphate and estrogen and serotonin, and PTH increases histamine, prostaglandins, IL-6, CRP, and possibly TNF.

-ray peat quote

forgot prolactin too.

 

[cjm]

Great story, thanks for sharing. I think most people would get the benefits of famotidine from no more than 20mg daily. Higher doses are really not needed unless a person has something called Zollinger-Ellison syndrome. Even for ulcers, the optimal dose was found to be 20mg and higher doses were found to heal ulcers quicker but had higher rate of relapse. Of course your doctor may think otherwise in which case I would defer to him/her.

I went looking for the Zollinger-Ellison study and think I found it:

"Long-Term Study. Phase 1: Initially, eight patients (Patients 1 to 5 and 7 to 9; Table I) were given famotidine for up to one year to control gastric acid secretion and so that drug safety could be evaluated. The maximum daily famotidine dose allowed in phase 1 was 640 mg per day."

"An anticholinergic agent was required in one patient (Patient 5) because gastric acid secretion was not adequately suppressed by 0.64 g of famotidine per day."

"In particular, no anti-androgenic side effects developed in any of the five male patients. During the long-term treatment study in which famotidine doses of up to 0.84 g per day were required, there were no significant changes in the mean levels of serum glutamic-pyruvic transferase (Figure 2) or serum glutamic-oxaloacetic transferase (Figure 2), from the mean pretreatment values at any of the follow-up times (two, eight, 24, 38, or 52 weeks)."

"Phase 2: Five patients initially treated in phase 1 (Patients 2,4, and 7 to 9) and 24 additional patients (Patients 10 to 33; Table I) who did not participate in the short-term study were given famotidine on a long-term basis to control gastric acid secretion... The maximal allowable famotidine dose was 800 mg per day."

Sci-Hub | Famotidine in the therapy of gastric hypersecretory states. The American Journal of Medicine, 81(4), 49–59 | 10.1016/0002-9343(86)90600-5

 

[Michael Mohn]

The phosphoric acid in a glass of coke after a meal should be enough to lower the pH in the stomach.

 

[Lilac]

@haidut Have you thought of making a pure famotidine supplement? Same question for diphenhydramine.

I have been doing a short experiment with Benadryl and find it helpful. But I won't continue due to the bad ingredients.

I took Pepcid one night, and that seemed helpful, too. Better sleep. Again, the bad ingredients make it useless for the long term.

 

[Mito]

Same question for diphenhydramine.

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[Lilac]

Thank you, @Mito.

 

[Michael Mohn]

@haidut Have you thought of making a pure famotidine supplement? Same question for diphenhydramine.

I have been doing a short experiment with Benadryl and find it helpful. But I won't continue due to the bad ingredients.

I took Pepcid one night, and that seemed helpful, too. Better sleep. Again, the bad ingredients make it useless for the long term.

Yes please @haidut. I dissolve the famotidine tablet in warm water and only drink the water but pure chemicals would be nice. Your cypro in ethanol rocks.

 

[ecstatichamster]

feeling better from serotonin/endotoxin symptoms taking 20mg before bedtime for the last few days. With no side effects or almost none.

 

[cs3000]

also another h2 antagonist reversed calcification of tendons in humans (parathyroid hormone connection):

Chronic calcific periarthritis of the elbow treated by cimetidine administration: Five cases

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2309499017717193

Calcific periarthritis or calcific tendinitis occurs most frequently in the shoulder and rarely in the elbow. Cimetidine was previously reported to be effective for chronic calcific periarthritis of the shoulder. Here, we present five patients with chronic calcific periarthritis of the elbow treated by administration of cimetidine; there were six affected elbows in these five patients. Although all patients had been treated with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs for at least 3 months, their symptoms were not relieved. All patients took oral administration of cimetidine 400 mg daily. The pain was completely relieved in an average of 1.8 months after the administration of cimetidine, and the calcification of the elbow disappeared in an average of 5.1 months. During the follow-up period, there were no symptoms suggesting a recurrence. Although the detailed mechanism of action of cimetidine on periarticular calcifications remains to be understood, cimetidine appears to be a potential therapeutic agent for chronic calcific periarthritis

Famotidine suppresses osteogenic differentiation of tendon cells in vitro and pathological calcification of tendon in vivo​

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22592911/
Famotidine administration suppressed calcification in the Achilles tendon of ttw mice, a mouse model of ectopic ossification


and famotidine is also a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor (CA is biomarker for vascular calcification):
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...for-vascular-calcification.47128/#post-827389

So famotidine looks good for preventing / reversing calcification of soft tissue over a few months

 

[cs3000]

Famotidine suppresses osteogenic differentiation of tendon cells in vitro and pathological calcification of tendon in vivo​

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22592911/
Famotidine administration suppressed calcification in the Achilles tendon of ttw mice, a mouse model of ectopic ossification


and famotidine is also a carbonic anhydrase inhibitor (CA is biomarker for vascular calcification):
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...for-vascular-calcification.47128/#post-827389

So famotidine looks good for preventing / reversing calcification of soft tissue over a few months

that study used mutant mice prone to calcification ,
pretty sure that's ~3mg-4mg human dose of famotidine
and it reduced the rate of tendon calcification by almost half overall. the other h2 antagonist / PTH reducer in the human study showed actual reversal of calcification , some of the patients saw it in 2 or 3 months.

Famotidine is 20x - 30x more potent than Cimetidine. so 400mg is 13mg - 20mg famotidine

-
After the initiation of cimetidine therapy, all patients experienced pain relief within 1 month. The pain was completely relieved in an average of 1.8 months (range: 1–3 months), and the calcification of the elbow disappeared after an average of 5.1 months (range: 2–9 months)

Representative case (case 4): A 44-year-old woman presented with a 6-month history of a painful nodule on her left elbow. She had been treated with oral NSAIDs for 3 months, but the symptoms were not changed and gradually worsened. Radiographs and magnetic resonance images of her left elbow showed calcifications outside the joint, suggesting chronic calcific periarthritis of the elbow (Figure 1). She desired surgical intervention because the pain became severe. We prescribed cimetidine 400 mg daily while the patient awaited surgery. One month later, her symptoms improved remarkably, and the radiographs showed decreased calcification. Two months after initiation of cimetidine, the pain was completely relieved, and the calcification was diminished on the radiographs (Figure 2).

Cimetidine is a histamine H2-receptor antagonist. Sherwood reported that patients with hyperparathyroidism became asymptomatic, normocalcemic, and normophosphatemic, with a normal level of parathyroid hormone (PTH) during treatment with cimetidine.1
Thus, although the precise mechanism is still unknown, cimetidine is supposed to act on PTH and promote absorption of calcium deposits
-
Cimetidine for chronic calcifying tendinitis of the shoulder - PubMed another one
400mg 3 months
After treatment, peak pain score (visual analogue scale: 0 - 100) decreased significantly from 63 +/- 13 to 14 +/- 19 (mean +/- SD, P <.01) and 10 patients (63%) became pain free. Physical impairment was also significantly improved.
Calcium deposits disappeared in 9 patients (56%), decreased in 4 patients (25%), and did not change in 3 patients (19%). Follow-up data showed that improvement of symptoms was sustained. No recurrence or enlargement of calcium deposits was observed.
plasma PTH did not change significantly.
Our results indicate that cimetidine is effective in treating chronic calcifying tendinitis of the shoulder; however, the mechanism by which cimetidine improves the symptoms is unknown.


so i guess PTH isn't the mechanism for this? i don't have the full text, they said no significant change in PTH. but would be interesting if PTH was elevated & reduced in the 56% good responders

famotidine/cimetidine can cause fungus/bacteria overgrowth in stomach/duodenum (apart from h.pylori), if there's existing fungus Candida overgrowth after treatment of duodenal ulcer., (which produces toxic acetaldehyde), probably applies to bacterial growth too from lower acidity.
but maybe continually taking acidic stuff through the day could counter that. or something that reduces fungus/bacteria in the stomach.
5mg likely wouldn't be significant on pH. and should still significantly slow down calcification, if not reverse some of it

 

[imaginaryfolk]

PTH is increased by phosphate and estrogen and serotonin, and PTH increases histamine, prostaglandins, IL-6, CRP, and possibly TNF.

-ray peat quote

forgot prolactin too.

what is CRP and TNF?

 

[Apple]

.

 

[Candeias]

Trying to find out why famotidine lowers PTH but without clear answers, there are only two types of (divergent) information in the literature, which are that it can cause
hypomagnesia/hypocalcemia (by decreasing absorption) and decalfications in different parts of the body. Will these decalcifications reduce PTH by redirecting calcium to the blood? I don't see any other answer...

 

[Sherbert]

“..
Famotidine is the only drug that has studies showing that it does not affect gastrin levels except in the first 24 hours.”

In the first 24hours after ea dose, or in the first 24 hours of course of taking it regularly? Please does anyone know?