Can T3 Ruin The Liver?

[thomas00]

Yep... So it is obviously wrong!

It's been discussed quite a few times here why that happens. It's not because taking t3 is wrong.

I think t3 alone can be tricky though. Or at least can show some problems up that might need to be addressed at the same time.

 

[Guacamayo]

@Kvothe so how would I restore that feeling of warmth I used to get when I was taking t3? I know this isn't related to the main question that I asked in this topic, but when I started dosing T3 I only got that warm feeling when I hit 100mcg (I started at around 60mcg).

But that effect lasted for a month or so, and then it disappeared. Upping the dose to 140mcg didn't bring that warmth, but I can state with 100% certainty that I did not get cold/cold extremities from dosing t3 at 140mcg or 100mcg...The thyroid/liver extract from Ancestral Supplements does give me that feeling of warmth when taken alongside T3...that might be a clue to something.

But that dose of T3 that I took was what was necessary to get my Free T3 into the top part of the normal range on my blood tests. I know that there are many people who need to take large doses of T3 to feel fine. I know Dr. Lowe was taking something like 150mcg of T3.

Obviously I'm trying to improve my health so I don't need to be taking as much, and so I can get that feeling of warmth and increased metabolism back to where it was when I first started on T3.

 

[Spartan300]

I would like to take smaller doses of tyronene which is 8mcg/drop.
What would be the easiest way to achieve this?

 

[Kunstruct]

I would like to take smaller doses of tyronene which is 8mcg/drop.
What would be the easiest way to achieve this?

There was at some point a recommendation is to have another empty bottle of tyronene and pour 50% of the full one in the empty bottle and then fill both of the bottles with something like ethanol. This way you have diluted the Tyronene and the same drop size comes out of the bottle as expected only that at 4mcg.

 

[Atman]

If I supplement with T3 8 to 16mcg I get colder feet than they are already.
Now that is interesting.

T3 makes you almost immediately more sensitive to adrenaline. This effects subsides after a while when your adrenaline level adjusts.
Try to start with an even lower dose like 2-5 mcg to mitigate most of this adverse effect.

 

[Kunstruct]

T3 makes you almost immediately more sensitive to adrenaline. This effects subsides after a while when your adrenaline level adjusts.
Try to start with an even lower dose like 2-5 mcg to mitigate most of this adverse effect.

I will have to dilute the T3 and will try that.

 

[taralynne]

I don't think your explanation regarding stress hormones makes much sense. Stress hormones don't make you warmer, and therefore t3 lowering stress hormones can't be the reason for coldness in response to t3. Adrenaline specifically restricts the blood flow to the extremities and digestive tract, and therefore cold hands and feet can't be the result of t3 lowering it. What you should feel in response to t3 is an almost immediate warming effect. It would makes sense to say that lowering stress hormones can decrease your core temperature, but if your extremities get colder, your are definitely not lowering your stress hormones. Most people get warmer once or twice in response to a large dose of t3 but then turn colder and colder. I never got long-term positive results from t3 until I started with 2mcg doses 3 times a day, and then slowly increased it to 4-5mcg. That final dose for a few weeks was enough to get rid of most of my problems.



You have never heard of anyone complaining about adverse reactions to t3? Just search for t3 only studies on pubmed, and look at the results. Taking a single dose 50mcg of t3 is probably worse than taking 120mcg of thyroxine

You mentioned taking 2 mcg of T3. How did you get such a small dose? I have 25mcg tablets that I have been cutting into quarters which is sometimes difficult because it is so small.

Also, I've been taking 1/2 pill day (12.5 mcg split into 2 doses) which doesn't seem to do anything as far as I can tell. I started @ 25 mcg day split into 4 doses but it made me insatiably hungry & I was afraid of gaining more weight so I cut it back. It also initially made my temp go up but that didn't last & it's mostly back in the 97s again.

What problems did it fix for you? I was so hopeful that it would finally get things going in the right direction for me but maybe I'm just not dosing it right.

 

[Spartan300]

There was at some point a recommendation is to have another empty bottle of tyronene and pour 50% of the full one in the empty bottle and then fill both of the bottles with something like ethanol. This way you have diluted the Tyronene and the same drop size comes out of the bottle as expected only that at 4mcg.

Thanks, good plan. Does anyone know of a suitable ethanol source in the UK?

 

[Chris-R]

I don't think your explanation regarding stress hormones makes much sense. Stress hormones don't make you warmer, and therefore t3 lowering stress hormones can't be the reason for coldness in response to t3. Adrenaline specifically restricts the blood flow to the extremities and digestive tract, and therefore cold hands and feet can't be the result of t3 lowering it.

In the scenario where someone's hypothyroidism has resulted in high compensatory adrenaline, the adrenaline would very likely be what's responsible for the elevated heartbeat when initially taking T3, even at small dose. In these people, the first few doses of T3 or even first two days or more of dosing can often cause a bit of arrhythmia given that the T3 is being added to a body which is currently experiencing significantly elevated adrenaline. Even modest doses of 4 - 6mcg can cause heart arrhythmia in this initial period.

What you should feel in response to t3 is an almost immediate warming effect.

Disagree. What about someone with critically elevated RT3?What about someone with significant T3 absorption issues at the cell level? There are so many variables at play and many differences between cases. Some people might be experiencing 20 times the normal adrenaline level, some only double. I initially felt cold on T3. But then I also had high Rt3. As I continued dosing, things got better in two days time. Anecdotal and meaningless, I know.

It would makes sense to say that lowering stress hormones can decrease your core temperature, but if your extremities get colder, your are definitely not lowering your stress hormones.

This is not true. Above all else, the body prioritizes preserving adequate warmth for the vital organs and brain. If core temperature drops, or threatens to drop, the body will pull blood away from the extremities in an attempt to keep more blood flowing around the vital organs. For many people, the stress state was aiding to help power many of their systems. The regular administration of T3 (hopefully arriving at adequate levels and not too high or low) eventually causes their body to begin to switch from the stress state and relative processes over to the thyroid hormone based processes, but this does not happen immediately of course. There are so many metabolic processes and pathways that differ between the stress state and relaxed state. In the interim, adverse symptoms are likely. Similar to someone in the stress state taking a large dose pregnenolone and getting drowsy. Preg knocked down the stress hormones, but there is nothing there to replace that net energy loss, so although mitigating the stress state is technically good, it made that person very fatigued.

Most people get warmer once or twice in response to a large dose of t3 but then turn colder and colder. I never got long-term positive results from t3 until I started with 2mcg doses 3 times a day, and then slowly increased it to 4-5mcg. That final dose for a few weeks was enough to get rid of most of my problems

That sounds awesome. So you were able to heal yourself with a relatively short trial of T3?

You have never heard of anyone complaining about adverse reactions to t3? Just search for t3 only studies on pubmed, and look at the results. Taking a single dose 50mcg of t3 is probably worse than taking 120mcg of thyroxine

Of course I have. Probably more so than people who have claimed it helped them. I was simply making comments that, for some people, when initially trying T3, there is a transition period out of the stress state that needs to be trialed and endured before commenting definitively on their success or failure with T3. I do think dose is very important and I think 4-6mcg at a time is relatively safe for most, but obviously not all. Everyone is different. What I do not understand are your comments about the liver sensing exogenous T3. How does the liver sense and react to exogenous T3? I've never heard of that.

 

[Kvothe]

@Kvothe so how would I restore that feeling of warmth I used to get when I was taking t3? I know this isn't related to the main question that I asked in this topic, but when I started dosing T3 I only got that warm feeling when I hit 100mcg (I started at around 60mcg).

I think it is difficult to say what is going on with such unphysiological doses. As I said, normal daily production of T3 is about 40-50mcg for a euthyroid person. Taking that much T3 probably completely suppresses your TSH and your serum T4 should be similarly suppressed. Your body probably relies completely on exogenous thyroid with doses like that and any alteration of the dose willl probably have significant effects.

You mentioned taking 2 mcg of T3. How did you get such a small dose? I have 25mcg tablets that I have been cutting into quarters which is sometimes difficult because it is so small.

I use idealab's Tyronene, which can be diluted to get a very small dose per drop(per).

That sounds awesome. So you were able to heal yourself with a relatively short trial of T3?

Yes, most of my problems (which were probably due to elevated rt3 and a sluggish liver resulting from taking T4/T3 for a very long time) went away and I now feel happy and toasty without any thyroid.

What I do not understand are your comments about the liver sensing exogenous T3. How does the liver sense and react to exogenous T3? I've never heard of that.

Peat spoke about that and said that the liver will start deactivating T3 when you take a dose that is too large (he mentioned 25mcg at a time), and studies with large one-time doses show the same. After a strong initial surge, T3 levels will fall below basal levels very quickly when you administer something like 30-50mcg at a single time. As I said, the body has a very narrow range for serum t3 levels and will defend that level. If you liver is suddenly exposed to more thyroid than it's used to.

"In this study, hypothyroid patients were initially treated with 15 μg LT3, and then increased to either 30 or 45 μg LT3 instead of their regular LT4."​

PubMed Central Image Viewer.

 

[ecstatichamster]

No it cannot ruin the liver. This has never happened.

I use about 50mcg of T3 a day. Dr. Wilson’s patients and his doctor-followers’ own patients, all use T3 to get to temperature and I would imagine there is zero liver problems as a result.

 

[eric lee]

In regards to feeling cold after taking T3, the same thing used to happen to me. At first, T3 would make me warm. Over time, I noticed I would get cold when I took T3. In particular, my feet would be very cold.

What worked for me was taking more Vitamin A. It turns out that it's not the thyroid itself that warms you up, but the production of steroid hormones, a process which requires T3 as well as other catalysts such as vitamin A.

If I were you, I would eat a big serving of beef liver. Then, the following day, watch to see how your body responds to T3. The liver has not only vitamin A, but likely will contain other things that you could be deficient in, such as selenium.

Hope this helps.

 

[taralynne]

get

Thank you...maybe I'll try that one instead at some point

 

[Kvothe]

No it cannot ruin the liver. This has never happened.

I use about 50mcg of T3 a day. Dr. Wilson’s patients and his doctor-followers’ own patients, all use T3 to get to temperature and I would imagine there is zero liver problems as a result.

I don't like this approach. If you use it very regularly and consistently, you probably can have good results with getting near 100% of your T3 from an exogenous source, but you would be completely dependent on medication, and any interruption could be very disturbing, and you completely eliminate the thyroid as a flexible regulator of your metabolism. I also imagine that most people wouldn't be able to stick with taking t3 5-6 times a day for months or years.
What does Dr Wilson say about the frequency at which you should take your t3? How many doses per day do most Wilson people take?

 

[sweetpeat]

You mentioned taking 2 mcg of T3. How did you get such a small dose? I have 25mcg tablets that I have been cutting into quarters which is sometimes difficult because it is so small.

It can be a bit tricky. Sometimes the pills tend to crumble. I've read of some people using a razor blade or x-acto knife to cut small pieces. I use a pair of large nail clippers with a straight instead of curved cutting edge. It's not perfect, but I figure I'm getting between 1-3 mcg.

 

[taralynne]

It can be a bit tricky. Sometimes the pills tend to crumble. I've read of some people using a razor blade or x-acto knife to cut small pieces. I use a pair of large nail clippers with a straight instead of curved cutting edge. It's not perfect, but I figure I'm getting between 1-3 mcg.

Thank you for the tip

 

[ecstatichamster]

I don't like this approach. If you use it very regularly and consistently, you probably can have good results with getting near 100% of your T3 from an exogenous source, but you would be completely dependent on medication, and any interruption could be very disturbing, and you completely eliminate the thyroid as a flexible regulator of your metabolism. I also imagine that most people wouldn't be able to stick with taking t3 5-6 times a day for months or years.
What does Dr Wilson say about the frequency at which you should take your t3? How many doses per day do most Wilson people take?

You should read about his approach.

It is more short term remedial than long term.

I’m still doing it because it’s just easier and the pills are cheap. But if I don’t have it, no big deal.

 

[FitnessMike]

I never got long-term positive results from t3 until I started with 2mcg doses 3 times a day, and then slowly increased it to 4-5mcg. That final dose for a few weeks was enough to get rid of most of my problems.

How severely were you hypothyroid? like out of 10?

 

[FitnessMike]

I never got long-term positive results from t3 until I started with 2mcg doses 3 times a day, and then slowly increased it to 4-5mcg. That final dose for a few weeks was enough to get rid of most of my problems.

would you please give us more of a context/history to your case? there are many like me struggling with tolerating thyroid meds

 

[Advocate2021]

Wow this thread is just what i need as am experimenting like crazy with my thyroid dosing right now. long ago 2.5 grains was my magic number so try to stick that equivalent for the most part but maybe i dont need as much anymore. ive been going crazy with experimenting with T3 and T4 and definitely have deterimined that i do best with no more than 3 mcg T3 per dose but in order to stick to my "magic dose" i have to take it like 14 times per day and i add 75 mcg t4 which i split up into small doses morning and evening with it. my question if whether such frequent dosing can be having some of the liver excreting effects mentioned in this thread and if less could be more- reducing the over all dose per day and ending up actually ahead with better thyroid function. i was so sick and the 2.5 grain dose so life altering years ago i am afraid of lowering and becoming hypothyroid and having to deal with that even if temporary. But what if less is actually better. Curious re input.