Can improving overall health affect personality/narcissism?

[ursidae]

It seems to me that improving health through diet actually makes wicked people more physically robust and resilient but it does nothing to mellow out their personality, rather it actually enhances their wickedness and lowers their empathy even further. They simply become more energetic in their ruthlessness and they forget about the humbling experience of being vulnerable and weak. A person such as that I know made significant dietary changes in their life and their inflammation was drastically reduced and all markers of health miraculously improved, except their cruel and sadistic personality. I pushed them in the direction of exploring diets to help with their health expecting them to become a nicer person, I firmly believed they behaved like that because they were suffering inflammation. However that’s the only parameter that didn’t improve one bit…

If improving personality requires work such as long hours of therapy to overcome childhood trauma and such, then is the information about proper dieting a dangerous weapon when shared with individuals whose character deviations are unresponsive to general health improvements?

 

[PolishSun]

It's usually about greediness ( for money, things, fame, etc), I think.

 

[ursidae]

I’ve been thinking about greediness a lot actually. I think the ambition to be immortal, the constant strife to defy the aging process, the preoccupation with mental tasks and one’s body and health at the expense of procreation and/or caring for one’s progeny, maintaining the calorie intake of a young person in old age instead of appropriately tapering it down is a form of greediness and selfishness, albeit a less malignant one and a sign that the ego is unhealthy. In a lot of people, I think it’s more likely to happen due to not having children or lacking intimate connections.

 

[PolishSun]

I read that doing good for those who really need it (not for selfish, greedy people who just want more) makes one happy. Like raising children, helping your relative of the neighbor etc. I do not know for sure, but greediness looks like a huge problem nowadays.

 

[ursidae]

Well now I know. The person that I helped is feasting on organic fruit, wild shrimp and litres of goat milk kefir while they feed their partner with debilitating inflammatory condition non organic frozen Mexican bean mix fried in sunflower oil. It’s disgusting.

 

[PolishSun]

It is. You shouldn't help that kind of person. They think that getting more of smth (like healthy body, money etc) will make them happy. But happiness is on the opposite direction. But one has to be clever enough to know what is it really what the other person needs. It might be a difficult task to understand.

 

[hering]

I think you are right. Bad people will use everything they can get to get more of something or make a profit out of it.
In my opinion the people who found a way of living (and eating) that makes them feel great and have lots of energy should be grateful for it - and wear this energy to their surroundings. Other people will notice it. Feeling good will also help to try and do good things for the humans.
I do understand that many people will always look for their health first before helping others, which is important. Otherwise they may break in the progress of helping others.
I know a lot of people who own almost nothing and are in a bad social state due too childhood traumas etc and are also not in the best health, but they seek to do good things to others more often than people I know who are the opposite of the poor people.
Being able to live a healthy life full of energy is a great gift which also makes people resilient to situations where they help others but don’t get back thankfulness or a favor.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Narcissists are often obsessed with their health because their body is needed to extract supply from people. It is a stable way of relating to the world, not a physical health issue.

Not everything is serotonin and estrogen.

 

[PolishSun]

Not everyone is trying to improve their health.

 

[milkboi]

I guess there are very fundamental elements of personality, which can and often will be enhanced when there is more energy available to express themselves, and then there are things we think of as character traits which are just a result of health status. You don't have to be unhealthy to be an ***hole and vice versa

 

[meatbag]

Well now I know. The person that I helped is feasting on organic fruit, wild shrimp and litres of goat milk kefir while they feed their partner with debilitating inflammatory condition non organic frozen Mexican bean mix fried in sunflower oil. It’s disgusting.

Do they know about the lactic acid and bacteria in milk is bad for them though? I think that can cause headaches?

 

[ursidae]

Do they know about the lactic acid and bacteria in milk is bad for them though? I think that can cause headaches?

Haven’t heard complaints about headaches. They seem to only tolerate goat milk kefir out of the dairy products. A “Tibetan sponge” is used to ferment. They aren’t following my recommendations but those of an alternative health practitioner I recommended who has people quitting gluten, vegetable oils, poultry/pork, anything fried. Because people need someone who’s practicing with clients to tell them to stop eating bread/vegetable oils for them to really stop doing it. They’re following the recommendations loosely with a bit of a peat spin due to my recommendations to emphasise animal protein, saturated fat, and fruit
So far there’s been resolution of diverticulitis, arthritis, insomnia, midsection fat, loose skin, nocturia, improvement in tremors, improved balance and stamina, improved memory, greatly improved energy levels. I highly doubt their lifelong nasty behaviour is due to kefir lactic acid which they started consuming this year

 

[Vileplume]

Great question. In my experience, metabolic status and personality are directly connected, but metabolic status does not determine one's morality or ethicality. Metabolic status can affect things like clear-headedness, the amount of guilt and anxiety a person feels, a person's sense of humor, willingness to engage with people around them, boldness, sneakiness, intelligence, verbal fluency, and likeability. A strong metabolism allows a person to control their traits, unlocking for the person a new realm of potential for interacting with the world and with their self. All of a sudden, the person who wants to help others feel better has tremendous capacity to do so. But a person who wants to achieve some other goal, whether that be dominance, financial gain, a rockin' bod, also has the capacity to achieve that, putting the goals themselves at odds. The person's stronger goal wins out.

In my list of traits that a high metabolism brings, I wanted to save two for last: empathy and desire. A high metabolism does increase each of these two, but they can work in opposition to each other, regardless of if the person has a high or a low metabolism. When my metabolism is low and I have inflammation, I do not feel feel empathy or drive. I notice the same in my friends, siblings, and parents. In a low metabolic state, my friend doesn't really listen to me, but instead plans his next bit of speech. He only really listens when it concerns him, and I do the same when I have a poor metabolism--I listen to people shallowly, and I'm more likely to objectify them and less likely to empathize with them as real people. At the same time, I have no drive to understand them or better myself, because I don't have enough energy. In a low metabolic state, I have no drive or empathy.

When I have increased energy, I become more empathetic and more driven to help people. A great combination. But for someone whose drive naturally tends toward financial gain, toward a better body, toward business success, toward climbing the hierarchy and dominating the friend group, a high metabolism allows him to channel these desires, which override empathy. At the same time, this person does experience increased empathy -- in conversation with an employee, for example, this driven person might look into his employee's tired eyes and recognize struggle, suffering, frustration in this employee. This increased empathy feeds into the success that driven, high-metabolism people have. They do have empathy, which helps them in interpersonal relationships--they can read what a person wants and give that to the person, they can "game the interpersonal system" with their increased empathy and awareness. However, the increased metabolism allows them to select how much their empathy controls their drive. For the most part, they will channel their empathy when it helps them navigate social interaction, and they will channel drive at all other times -- when climbing whatever hierarchy they want to climb, when gaining what they want to gain.

Increased metabolism allows for greater control of every trait -- when empathy and desire both increase, one must win out. That's up to the person's morality, which lies a step outside of metabolism.

 

[meatbag]

Haven’t heard complaints about headaches. They seem to only tolerate goat milk kefir out of the dairy products. A “Tibetan sponge” is used to ferment. They aren’t following my recommendations but those of an alternative health practitioner I recommended who has people quitting gluten, vegetable oils, poultry/pork, anything fried. Because people need someone who’s practicing with clients to tell them to stop eating bread/vegetable oils for them to really stop doing it. They’re following the recommendations loosely with a bit of a peat spin due to my recommendations to emphasise animal protein, saturated fat, and fruit
So far there’s been resolution of diverticulitis, arthritis, insomnia, midsection fat, loose skin, nocturia, improvement in tremors, improved balance and stamina, improved memory, greatly improved energy levels. I highly doubt their lifelong nasty behaviour is due to kefir lactic acid which they started consuming this year

It sounds like maybe they're hypothyroid, I know personally I get irritable when my stomach is bothering me or when I am feeling overstressed, etc. I think Danny Roddy always mentions that people who can't digest dairy are hypothyrid and have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth;

View: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cRv7MWuXJSgwINZAXAwOF


Have they ever checked their temperature and pulse rate or gotten blood measures like TSH, vitamin D?

Haidut had posted some studies while back that serotonin can cause people to exhibit poor empathy, wisdom, etc. Probably through its effects on oxidative metabolism;
SSRI Drugs Impair Judgment, Wisdom, Understanding, Love And Empathy

And some articles on Ray Peat's website kind explain how serotonin affects a person's views and thinking;
Serotonin, depression, and aggression - The problem of brain energy.

 

[Dragulescu]

It seems to me that improving health through diet actually makes wicked people more physically robust and resilient but it does nothing to mellow out their personality, rather it actually enhances their wickedness and lowers their empathy even further. They simply become more energetic in their ruthlessness and they forget about the humbling experience of being vulnerable and weak. A person such as that I know made significant dietary changes in their life and their inflammation was drastically reduced and all markers of health miraculously improved, except their cruel and sadistic personality. I pushed them in the direction of exploring diets to help with their health expecting them to become a nicer person, I firmly believed they behaved like that because they were suffering inflammation. However that’s the only parameter that didn’t improve one bit…

If improving personality requires work such as long hours of therapy to overcome childhood trauma and such, then is the information about proper dieting a dangerous weapon when shared with individuals whose character deviations are unresponsive to general health improvements?

In what ways are they cruel and ruthless.

 

[jnklheimer]

I’ve seen narcissistic behaviour from a person in both bad and normal (I wouldn’t say good) health. It definitely gets worse when they aren’t feeling as well but it’s always there.

If you believe they are narcissists you should lower your contact with them and help anyone else who may want to get away from them.

 

[gaze]

i asked ray once about "evil" people and society, and how much serotonin and estrogen play a role in that:

Ray:
"Uncontrolled serotonin and estrogen are major factors in destructive, seemingly unmotivated aggression, and can be corrected by a properly supportive environment. Less extreme inclinations of the same sort, when combined with social and economic power and what superficially seems like self-interest, become potentially world destroying. The system becomes self-propelling, mostly independent of the physiology of the actors."

i think the way system is set up, which is centered around competition, wealth accumulation, hard work, everyone for themselves, lack of art, lack of meaningful oppurunities to express ourselves, lack of meaningful work, lack of fraternity, combined with all the junk in the environment, continually reinforces our worst tendencies and it can be hard to break out of without concentrated efforts, no matter what diet we eat

 

[ursidae]

In what ways are they cruel and ruthless.

Having zero regard for other people’s feelings, walking over everyone else to achieve their goals, humiliating others through power games for entertainment and to feel the high of being in control, being rude and aggressive, having no warmth, having endless expectations of others and never being satisfied no matter how hard they try, majorly ******* up their child’s mental health for life, when people lash out at them in response to the harassment they’re startled for about 10 seconds and then they quickly recover and continue doing the same thing. As far as I know they’re not a criminal, so they harass people in ways that don’t violate the law.

Becoming in charge of a department temporarily and having the entire staff threatening to quit in a matter of weeks

 

[Stilgar]

I asked Ray about this topic about a year ago - asking if improving metabolism could help, because I had the unfortunate experience of being around a few. His answer -

“ They develop that way in a family setting of some sort, so personality and metabolism are social and developmental; to correct the metabolism and character, I think it’s necessary to have a supportive social setting, and US society doesn’t make that likely.”

 

[Jerkboy]

The whole narcissist hypothesis is bull**** in my opinion.

It is a range. Some people are more narcissistic than others. From my experience narcissism is often just an act people put on because it has benefits. People are drawn to narcissistic behaviour. Especially weak people.

Go to a video about narcissism. The comment section is full with women talking about their ex boyfriends. It is a narrative sold to females. And they love it. Because it puts blame away from them and they can put their ex boyfriend into a nice little box.

Narcissism is inherent to human nature. And from my experience the only ones who hate it are people who cannot compete and thus sit on the sideline psycho analysing the people who are actually doing things. Often females and weaker men.

Actually a lot of people who are like this are big narcissists themselves. They love to virtue signal their ability for empathy. A lot of women are inherintly sollipsistic.

Second. Being humble is only virtuous if you are a strong man (or woman). Otherwise it does not mean anything. This is why people love "fighters" who are humble. They could potentially smash your face in, but they don't and are actually the opposite. This juxtaposition is attractive and liked by humans.