Can improving overall health affect personality/narcissism?

Ben.

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If improving personality requires work such as long hours of therapy to overcome childhood trauma and such, then is the information about proper dieting a dangerous weapon when shared with individuals whose character deviations are unresponsive to general health improvements?

Dangerous as in making a person healthy/energy driven to much, so that bad character traits flourish and cause damage to the sorroundings? Enabling so to speak?


There was a user in the forum who referenced a theory where hypothyroid people are attracted to other hypothyroid people. I often wondered myself how many factors are playing into this other than psychological once.
I know we are talking about personality here but unless the person in question has the brain of a sociopath, the mechanisms that determine personality and behaviour seem to be very complex.


But i guess you could be right. Giving a evil person so to speak the tools to dominate and make everyone else misserable does not sound like a good idea.
Im wondering tho if we are ... from a moral standpoint ... allowed to deny problematic people to be healthy? Maybe its not about them being healthy or not, but the other factors that led to this behaviour/personality that need to be taken care of?




In a attempt to understand my surroundings, especially social behaviour and personalities (which baffle me since childchood), im pondering over the idea that other variables come into play that we are overlooking, something we are missing?
Especially in thoose cases were neither psychological theraphies nor lifestyle/diet changes lead to the desired lifequality and personality/behaviour changes.

Im thinking about the virome and microbiome for instance.
I mean we see it in the wild how fungi or other types of organisms influence behaviour in plants and animals. Why woudn't it influence us aswell? I mean its a long shot but perhaps it plays a more significant role than we think and is intrinsically involved in our development and gene/cell expression.


Fungi That Infect Insects: Altering Host Behavior and Beyond

The parasitic fungi such as the host-specific pathogen Ophiocordyceps unilateralis sensu lato can control insect brains and manipulate their behavior to reach death locations that are optimal for spore dispersal, the so-called fungal extended phenotype [9]


Pathogen-derived extracellular vesicles coordinate social behaviour and host manipulation

Pathogens excel in developing different means to facilitate cell-cell communication via secreted vesicles, among others. The released vesicles are involved in the transfer of biologically active molecules that induce phenotypic changes in the recipient cells. The messages within the vesicles are delivered to coordinate diverse processes, including virulence factor expression, differentiation state and control of their population density. Importantly, production of such vesicles promotes pathogen survival, as it provides a secure means of pathogen-pathogen communication and an ability to manipulate host responses for their own benefits. This review highlights intriguing findings, which show the important role of EVs in the social activity of pathogens, within and in between their communities. We further present examples of how pathogens use EVs to alter host immune and non-immune responses.

The missing link in parasite manipulation of host behaviour

A vast majority of the published literature investigating the mechanistic basis underlying behavioural manipulation fails to connect the establishment of the parasite with the reported physiological changes in its host. This has left researchers unable to empirically distinguish/identify adaptive physiological changes enforced by the parasites from pathological side effects of infection, resulting in scientists relying on narratives to explain results, rather than empirical evidence. By contrasting correlative mechanistic evidence for host manipulation against rare cases of causative evidence and drawing from the advanced understanding of physiological systems from other disciplines it is clear we are often skipping over a crucial step in host-manipulation: the production, potential storage, and release of molecules (manipulation factors) that must create the observed physiological changes in hosts if they are adaptive. Identifying these manipulation factors, via associating gene expression shifts in the parasite with behavioural changes in the host and following their effects will provide researchers with a bottom-up approach to unraveling the mechanisms of behavioural manipulation and by extension behaviour itself.

Host behaviour alteration by its parasite: from brain gene expression to functional test

We studied brain gene expression profiles of sticklebacks infected with S. solidus to determine the proximal causes of these behavioural alterations. We show that infected fish have altered expression levels in genes involved in the inositol pathway.

 
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Jerkboy

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Dangerous as in making a person healthy/energy driven to much, so that bad character traits flourish and cause damage to the sorroundings? Enabling so to speak?


There was a user in the forum who referenced a theory where hypothyroid people are attracted to other hypothyroid people. I often wondered myself how many factors are playing into this other than psychological once.
I know we are talking about personality here but unless the person in question has the brain of a sociopath, the mechanisms that determine personality and behaviour seem to be very complex.


But i guess you could be right. Giving a evil person so to speak the tools to dominate and make everyone else misserable does not sound like a good idea.
Im wondering tho if we are ... from a moral standpoint ... allowed to deny problematic people to be healthy. Maybe its not about them being healthy or not, but the other factors that led to this behaviour/personality that need to be taken care of.




In a attempt to understand my surroundings, especially social behaviour and personalitys, im pondering over the idea that other variables come into play that we are overlooking, something we are missing?
Especially in thoose cases were neither psychological theraphies nor lifestyle/diet changes lead to the desired lifequality and personality/behaviour changes.

Im thinking about the virome and microbiome for instance.
I mean we see it in the wild how fungi or other types of organisms influence behaviour in plants and animals. Why woudn't it influence us aswell? I mean its a long shot but perhaps it plays a more significant role than we think and is intrinsically involved in our development and gene/cell expression.

Definitely truth to hypothyroidism attracting other people who are hypothyroid. Hormones also do something in that regard.
 

opson123

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The whole narcissist hypothesis is bull**** in my opinion.

It is a range. Some people are more narcissistic than others. From my experience narcissism is often just an act people put on because it has benefits. People are drawn to narcissistic behaviour. Especially weak people.

Go to a video about narcissism. The comment section is full with women talking about their ex boyfriends. It is a narrative sold to females. And they love it. Because it puts blame away from them and they can put their ex boyfriend into a nice little box.

Narcissism is inherent to human nature. And from my experience the only ones who hate it are people who cannot compete and thus sit on the sideline psycho analysing the people who are actually doing things. Often females and weaker men.

Actually a lot of people who are like this are big narcissists themselves. They love to virtue signal their ability for empathy. A lot of women are inherintly sollipsistic.

Second. Being humble is only virtuous if you are a strong man (or woman). Otherwise it does not mean anything. This is why people love "fighters" who are humble. They could potentially smash your face in, but they don't and are actually the opposite. This juxtaposition is attractive and liked by humans.
A narcissist defending narcissism. Jerkboy name. Hilarious.
 

rei

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narcissism is a trait considered to be something developed in early age and probably the hardest personality disorder to cure with therapy, essentially incurable. I don't know however if fundamentally changing the physiology might cure it, but this is not something that medicine (if you dare to call psychology/psychiatry that) even thinks about, so there is no data.
 

andrewlee224

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I think it's easier for an '***hole' to at least retain good/standard health or energy levels. By definition they care less for other people and so are less sensitive. On the other hand this makes them less human, and more like soulless husks so I wouldn't think it's worth it. And I think an emphatic person has a higher potential energy/health if they learn how to control their empathy at times.
 

jnklheimer

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The whole narcissist hypothesis is bull**** in my opinion.

It is a range. Some people are more narcissistic than others. From my experience narcissism is often just an act people put on because it has benefits. People are drawn to narcissistic behaviour. Especially weak people.

Go to a video about narcissism. The comment section is full with women talking about their ex boyfriends. It is a narrative sold to females. And they love it. Because it puts blame away from them and they can put their ex boyfriend into a nice little box.

Narcissism is inherent to human nature. And from my experience the only ones who hate it are people who cannot compete and thus sit on the sideline psycho analysing the people who are actually doing things. Often females and weaker men.

Actually a lot of people who are like this are big narcissists themselves. They love to virtue signal their ability for empathy. A lot of women are inherintly sollipsistic.

Second. Being humble is only virtuous if you are a strong man (or woman). Otherwise it does not mean anything. This is why people love "fighters" who are humble. They could potentially smash your face in, but they don't and are actually the opposite. This juxtaposition is attractive and liked by humans.
You’re dismissing a legitimate dysfunction because of some women complaining about their boyfriends. My dad has narcissistic traits that come out regularly, it’s of no benefit to anyone. It’s destructive to himself and anyone around him.
 

Jerkboy

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You’re dismissing a legitimate dysfunction because of some women complaining about their boyfriends. My dad has narcissistic traits that come out regularly, it’s of no benefit to anyone. It’s destructive to himself and anyone around him.
How can you call something a dysfunction if it is an adaptation by the human body? It is part of being human. Narcissism is a scale. Society will put a disorder-tag on it because yes in society a certain level of narcissism will cause problems. Again this is subjective.

It does not mean it is bad for the human having the traits. Unless they do not like the end effects of their behaviour themselves. Everybody has control over what they do. They choose not to change for the people around them. So then they have to deal with those consequences.

The whole idea that humans are perfect empathic beings is nonsense. Narcissism has always existed and will always exist. Cold hearted killers have always existed. Simply because it is an effective tool for survival and even in society it is effective to have narcissism.
 

mariantos

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It seems to me that improving health through diet actually makes wicked people more physically robust and resilient but it does nothing to mellow out their personality, rather it actually enhances their wickedness and lowers their empathy even further. They simply become more energetic in their ruthlessness and they forget about the humbling experience of being vulnerable and weak. A person such as that I know made significant dietary changes in their life and their inflammation was drastically reduced and all markers of health miraculously improved, except their cruel and sadistic personality. I pushed them in the direction of exploring diets to help with their health expecting them to become a nicer person, I firmly believed they behaved like that because they were suffering inflammation. However that’s the only parameter that didn’t improve one bit…

If improving personality requires work such as long hours of therapy to overcome childhood trauma and such, then is the information about proper dieting a dangerous weapon when shared with individuals whose character deviations are unresponsive to general health improvements?
I think it depends on each person.

There are individuals who, regardless of their health, whether good or bad, choose to be or remain just as unpleasant. On the other hand, we have those whose personalities do not fluctuate again depending on their state of health and choose to remain as human as ever, extraordinary people.

It is obviously not excluded that in the case of some, the health condition plays a major role in the development of their character, because there are people who,before the deterioration of the health condition, were not very pleasant, and with its deterioration, they became even more unpleasant, more insensitive to the sufferings of others, more selfish etc. We have again, at the opposite end, those in a situation similar to the previous one, only that after they get sick, they choose to become better, more understanding, warmer people, they end up empathizing with the suffering of others etc.
 

FredSonoma

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Having zero regard for other people’s feelings, walking over everyone else to achieve their goals, humiliating others through power games for entertainment and to feel the high of being in control, being rude and aggressive, having no warmth, having endless expectations of others and never being satisfied no matter how hard they try, majorly ******* up their child’s mental health for life, when people lash out at them in response to the harassment they’re startled for about 10 seconds and then they quickly recover and continue doing the same thing. As far as I know they’re not a criminal, so they harass people in ways that don’t violate the law.

Becoming in charge of a department temporarily and having the entire staff threatening to quit in a matter of weeks
What you described sounds like people I have known that took benzos (anti-anxiety medicine prescribed very liberally by doctors). Do they have abnormally strong, dead eye contact?
 

jnklheimer

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How can you call something a dysfunction if it is an adaptation by the human body? It is part of being human. Narcissism is a scale. Society will put a disorder-tag on it because yes in society a certain level of narcissism will cause problems. Again this is subjective.

It does not mean it is bad for the human having the traits. Unless they do not like the end effects of their behaviour themselves. Everybody has control over what they do. They choose not to change for the people around them. So then they have to deal with those consequences.

The whole idea that humans are perfect empathic beings is nonsense. Narcissism has always existed and will always exist. Cold hearted killers have always existed. Simply because it is an effective tool for survival and even in society it is effective to have narcissism.


Narcissism is bad for the person, and for the people around them who are targets of their abuse. Please respond to that point specifically if you want to have a conversation about it because you're all over the place.
 
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ursidae

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What you described sounds like people I have known that took benzos (anti-anxiety medicine prescribed very liberally by doctors). Do they have abnormally strong, dead eye contact?
Their glare has an intense piercing quality, and their eye contact is maintained for a long time, it’s hard to look at their eyes. Not sure what dead is supposed to mean, their eyes do have a spark if you mean “dull” by dead and they are not emotionless
 

GutFeeling

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Spot on, just more energy to be wicked.
They may also emulate a false empathy and calm to deceive.
 

GutFeeling

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Politicians who take psychedelics are on the same boat, pretend to be changed as a deceiving method.
 

Jerkboy

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Narcissism is bad for the person, and for the people around them who are targets of their abuse. Please respond to that point specifically if you want to have a conversation about it because you're all over the place.

I don't agree with people who use "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" as a scapegoat and to describe a person. Yes there are so called "evil" (subjective) people in the world. Does not mean they are a narcissist. Let me say it like this. It is very easy, too easy to put someone in the box of "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" that it has complete lack of regard of the whole range of human emotion, behaviour, etc. Which is the epitome of lack of empathy.

The reason it is easy is because narcissism is part of human behaviour. From low levels to extreme levels.

It is a 2D box you put people into. And yes of course pattern recognition will kick in and you will see narcissists everywhere.

And thus I do not agree with the whole hypothesis that these psychologists/philosophers have created.

The actions a person has, has reactions from the world. Positive or negative is subjective. If a person acts like an ***hole and loses his friends, it is his fault. Clearly he does not want to change enough to stop this reaction from happening. You do not have to be a narcissist to become lonely and to abuse people. It is inherent to human behaviour to act this way - on a scale.
 

PolishSun

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The problem is that those people (narcissistic) have to take very simple decisions to have it reasonably good in life, but instead they are running around making everyone they touch unhappy and miserable. It looks like they are very stupid. And very nasty. And greedy.
 

jnklheimer

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I don't agree with people who use "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" as a scapegoat and to describe a person. Yes there are so called "evil" (subjective) people in the world. Does not mean they are a narcissist. Let me say it like this. It is very easy, too easy to put someone in the box of "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" that it has complete lack of regard of the whole range of human emotion, behaviour, etc. Which is the epitome of lack of empathy.

The reason it is easy is because narcissism is part of human behaviour. From low levels to extreme levels.

It is a 2D box you put people into. And yes of course pattern recognition will kick in and you will see narcissists everywhere.

And thus I do not agree with the whole hypothesis that these psychologists/philosophers have created.

The actions a person has, has reactions from the world. Positive or negative is subjective. If a person acts like an ***hole and loses his friends, it is his fault. Clearly he does not want to change enough to stop this reaction from happening. You do not have to be a narcissist to become lonely and to abuse people. It is inherent to human behaviour to act this way - on a scale.
Ok, I understand what you’re saying now, thank you explaining for me.
 
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