Blocking Cystine, And Thus Glutathione (GSH) Synthesis, Kills Cancer Stem Cells

[movebetter]

Sometimes whats good for healthy cells is also good for cancer cells, and whats bad for healthy cells is also bad for cancer cells

cancer cells are healthy cells that lost function over time starting with mitochondria dysfunction, & lose more & more complexity , dividing without the previously beneficial function. so they still have some commonalities
(i.e here, both protect themselves against ROS with glutathione. plays a role in repairing mitochondria DNA also)
so if you deplete glutathione to harm cancer cells, you are also harming healthy cells. (well for most people at least - with so much oxidative stressors around and unoptimized mitochondria as a default through lack of focus on this - oxidative stress is probably much more of an issue than reductive stress)
(maybe can do some things that harm healthy cells just a bit, but because the cancer cells are dysfunctional they cant tolerate it vs healthy cells. so net benefit. but doesnt have to be that way there's things that take out cancer cells without negatively effecting healthy cells)

on the other hand with active cancer its an option to slow it down / help things kill it , that might outweigh effect on healthy cells

Hi, you mentioned "there's things that take out cancer cells without negatively effecting healthy cells". Can you point me to some of these ways?

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi, you mentioned "there's things that take out cancer cells without negatively effecting healthy cells". Can you point me to some of these ways?

High dose thiamine shows promise:

The role of thiamine in cancer: possible genetic and cellular signaling mechanisms - PubMed

The relationship between supplemental vitamins and various types of cancer has been the focus of recent investigation, and supplemental vitamins have been reported to modulate cancer rates. A significant association has been demonstrated between cancer and low levels of thiamine in the serum...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
The relationship between supplemental vitamins and various types of cancer has been the focus of recent investigation, and supplemental vitamins have been reported to modulate cancer rates. A significant association has been demonstrated between cancer and low levels of thiamine in the serum. Genetic studies have helped identify a number of factors that link thiamine to cancer, including the solute carrier transporter (SLC19) gene, transketolase, transcription factor p53, poly(ADP-ribose) polymerase-1 gene, and the reduced form of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate. Thiamine supplementation may contribute to a high rate of tumor cell survival, proliferation and chemotherapy resistance. Thiamine has also been implicated in cancer through its effects on matrix metalloproteinases, prostaglandins, cyclooxygenase-2, reactive oxygen species, and nitric oxide synthase. However, some studies have suggested that thiamine may exhibit some antitumor effects. The role of thiamine in cancer is controversial. However, thiamine deficiency may occur in patients with cancer and cause serious disorders, including Wernicke's encephalopathy, that require parenteral thiamine supplementation. A very high dose of thiamine produces a growth-inhibitory effect in cancer. Therefore, further investigations of thiamine in cancer are needed to clarify this relationship.
-end paste-

High Dose Vitamin B1 Reduces Proliferation in Cancer Cell Lines Analogous to Dichloroacetate

The dichotomous effect of thiamine supplementation on cancer cell growth is characterized by growth stimulation at low doses and growth suppression at high doses. Unfortunately, how thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation is currently unknown. Recent ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
The dichotomous effect of thiamine supplementation on cancer cell growth is characterized by growth stimulation at low doses and growth suppression at high doses. Unfortunately, how thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation is currently unknown. Recent focuses on metabolic targets for cancer therapy have exploited the altered regulation of the thiamine-dependent enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH). Cancer cells inactivate PDH through phosphorylation by overexpression of pyruvate dehydrogenase kinases (PDKs). Inhibition of PDKs by dichloracetate (DCA) exhibits a growth suppressive effect in many cancers. Recently it has been shown that the thiamine co-enzyme, thiamine pyrophosphate reduces PDK mediated phosphorylation of PDH. Therefore, the objective of this study was to determine if high dose thiamine supplementation reduces cell proliferation through a DCA like mechanism.

Conclusion​

Our findings suggest that high dose thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation by a mechanism similar to that described for dichloroacetate.
-end paste-

A Role for Thiamine Deficiency in Cancer - Hormones Matter Please read.
-paste-
"There is ever increasing evidence that energy metabolism is involved in the causation of cancer. A phenomenon known as the Warburg effect has been known for a century and was thought by Warburg to be the cause of cancer. To summarize this effect, normal cells primarily produce energy by the consumption of oxygen in a complex mechanism known as oxidative phosphorylation. This involves the consumption of glucose as fuel. The Warburg effect is because most cancer cells produce energy through a high rate of glucose metabolism by fermentation, even though there is abundant oxygen present. This is a less efficient method of producing energy, an effect that has been much studied but whose mechanism still remains unclear.

In cancer research today, the focus has been primarily on genetic mechanisms and the Warburg effect is considered to be a result derived from these genetic changes rather than the underlying cause. However, energy is vital to normal cell function, so a drop in energy synthesis might be a defect that has a secondary effect on genetically determined mechanisms. Since the vitamin, thiamine, is so closely involved with the metabolism of glucose, it is not surprising that a few researchers have looked at the involvement of this vitamin in relationship to the cause of cancer. For this reason I turned to looking at what medical literature has been published in regard to this and was surprised to find that it was relatively abundant."

 

[ecstatichamster]

the high dose of thiamine is 2500 or more times the RDA, which would be in a man maybe 4000 or 5000mg per day, which seems huge.

 

[mostlylurking]

the high dose of thiamine is 2500 or more times the RDA, which would be in a man maybe 4000 or 5000mg per day, which seems huge.

More information about the dosage of thiamine regarding cancer:

Thiamin - Dietary Reference Intakes for Thiamin, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folate, Vitamin B12, Pantothenic Acid, Biotin, and Choline - NCBI Bookshelf

For thiamine (B1), "The RDA for adults is 1.2 mg/day for men and 1.1 mg/day for women." So 1.2mg/day for men X 2500=3000mg/day. That said, I remember that I did the math on this a year or so ago and was relieved to learn that my 2000mg/day of thiamine hcl regimen was considered safe regarding the effect that size dose has on cancer growth. I'll see if I can find the study.

Linking vitamin B1 with cancer cell metabolism

The resurgence of interest in cancer metabolism has linked alterations in the regulation and exploitation of metabolic pathways with an anabolic phenotype that increases biomass production for the replication of new daughter cells. To support the increase ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Self-supplementation vitamin preparations containing levels of thiamine greater than the RDI are readily accessible and considered to be safe and harmless for patients (Table 1). Although the use of thiamine to treat deficiency-related symptoms attributed to the disease or therapy is warranted, this is currently done with limited comprehension of the role thiamine may contribute towards malignant progression. In light of our knowledge regarding alterations of thiamine homeostasis in cancer, the impact of thiamine supplementation on cancer growth has received minimal research attention. In 2001, Comin-Anduix et al. evaluated the effect of increasing thiamine supplementation in multiples of the RDI on an Ehrlich ascites tumor-mouse model [58]. Their findings indicated a statistically significant stimulatory effect of thiamine supplementation on tumor growth compared to non-supplemented controls. Moderate doses of 12.5 to 37.5 times the RDI had the greatest stimulatory effect, peaking at approximately 250% greater tumor cell proliferation with 25 times the RDI. Interestingly, at values above 75 times the RDI, no change was found in tumor cell proliferation, and a slight decrease was found at 2,500 times the RDI. This observation suggests that there is a specific range in which thiamine supports proliferation. A recent study explored the relationship between a high-fat diet and thiamine levels on the tumor latency in the Tg(MMTVneu) spontaneous breast cancer-tumor mouse model [59]. In this study a normal-fat (NF) diet contained 10% of the calories from fat while the high-fat diet contained 60%. Low thiamine (LT) levels were defined as 2 mg of thiamine per 4,057 kcal and normal thiamine (NT) levels as 6 mg per 4,057 kcal. Tumor latency was significantly longer (295 days) in animals given a NF/LT diet compared with animals on NF/NT (225 days). Interestingly,the delay in tumor latency from LT was abolished when given a high-fat diet. This demonstrates an important interplay of dietary constituents on tumor progression that needs further characterization. Although more research is needed to confirm and evaluate the role of thiamine on disease progression, these studies have significant clinical implications. First, patients requiring thiamine to treat either chemotherapy or disease-associated deficiency should receive high-dose thiamine to avoid enhancing tumor growth. Second, self-supplementation of thiamine by cancer patients should be avoided as the low-to-moderate levels of thiamine may contribute to disease exacerbation."
-end paste-

Unfortunately, this study only names high-fat and not the saturation of the fat. Polyunsaturated fat (PUFA) is known to be carcinogenic. PUFA is known to deplete thiamine, (at least in the Salmon farming industry). Thiamine is required for oxidative metabolism. When oxidative metabolism is blocked, the result is what Otto Warburg called the Cancer Metabolism.

Lactate vs. CO2 in wounds, sickness, and aging; the other approach to cancer

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

""Warburg Effect" refers to Otto Warburg's observation that cancer cells produce lactic acid even in the presence of adequate oxygen."
"From the 19th century until the second quarter of the 20th century, cancer was investigated mainly as a metabolic problem. This work, understanding the basic chemistry of metabolism, was culminating in the 1920s in the work of Otto Warburg and Albert Szent-Gyorgyi on respiration. Warburg demonstrated as early as 1920 that a respiratory defect, causing aerobic glycolysis, i.e., the production of lactic acid even in the presence of oxygen, was an essential feature of cancer. (The formation of lactic acid is normal and adaptive when the supply of oxygen isn't adequate to meet energy demands, for example when running.)"

 

[ecstatichamster]

Thank You so much for your helpful post @mostlylurking

 

[mostlylurking]

Thank You so much for your helpful post @mostlylurking

you're welcome!

 

[cs3000]

Hi, you mentioned "there's things that take out cancer cells without negatively effecting healthy cells". Can you point me to some of these ways?

hi , chlorophyll A (not chlorophyllin) might be a good one (1 study where pancreas tumors were 1/3 the size in mice fed low dose 1.5mg/kg orally. and maybe even shrank. mechanism relating to reducing mitochondrial ros. unlike glutathione in the cell (helps prevent cancer but can promote survival for existing) increasing glutathione inside mitochondria might be anti-cancer). green peas are 1 source that give this amount
and vitamin e succinate maybe another one (effect is selective but not sure if fully long term)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6051000/

 

[movebetter]

hi , chlorophyll A (not chlorophyllin) might be a good one (1 study where pancreas tumors were 1/3 the size in mice fed low dose 1.5mg/kg orally. and maybe even shrank. mechanism relating to reducing mitochondrial ros. unlike glutathione in the cell (helps prevent cancer but can promote survival for existing) increasing glutathione inside mitochondria might be anti-cancer). green peas are 1 source that give this amount
and vitamin e succinate maybe another one (effect is selective but not sure if fully long term)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6051000/
View attachment 58992

thanks for this. Ray is so anti green leaves. what do you think of Chlorella?

 

[movebetter]

High dose thiamine shows promise:

The role of thiamine in cancer: possible genetic and cellular signaling mechanisms - PubMed

The relationship between supplemental vitamins and various types of cancer has been the focus of recent investigation, and supplemental vitamins have been reported to modulate cancer rates. A significant association has been demonstrated between cancer and low levels of thiamine in the serum...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
The relationship between supplemental vitamins and various types of cancer has been the focus of recent investigation, and supplemental vitamins have been reported to modulate cancer rates. A significant association has been demonstrated between cancer and low levels of thiamine in the serum. Genetic studies have helped identify a number of factors that link thiamine to cancer, including the solute carrier transporter (SLC19) gene, transketolase, transcription factor p53, poly(ADP-ribose) polymerase-1 gene, and the reduced form of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate. Thiamine supplementation may contribute to a high rate of tumor cell survival, proliferation and chemotherapy resistance. Thiamine has also been implicated in cancer through its effects on matrix metalloproteinases, prostaglandins, cyclooxygenase-2, reactive oxygen species, and nitric oxide synthase. However, some studies have suggested that thiamine may exhibit some antitumor effects. The role of thiamine in cancer is controversial. However, thiamine deficiency may occur in patients with cancer and cause serious disorders, including Wernicke's encephalopathy, that require parenteral thiamine supplementation. A very high dose of thiamine produces a growth-inhibitory effect in cancer. Therefore, further investigations of thiamine in cancer are needed to clarify this relationship.
-end paste-

High Dose Vitamin B1 Reduces Proliferation in Cancer Cell Lines Analogous to Dichloroacetate

The dichotomous effect of thiamine supplementation on cancer cell growth is characterized by growth stimulation at low doses and growth suppression at high doses. Unfortunately, how thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation is currently unknown. Recent ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
The dichotomous effect of thiamine supplementation on cancer cell growth is characterized by growth stimulation at low doses and growth suppression at high doses. Unfortunately, how thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation is currently unknown. Recent focuses on metabolic targets for cancer therapy have exploited the altered regulation of the thiamine-dependent enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase (PDH). Cancer cells inactivate PDH through phosphorylation by overexpression of pyruvate dehydrogenase kinases (PDKs). Inhibition of PDKs by dichloracetate (DCA) exhibits a growth suppressive effect in many cancers. Recently it has been shown that the thiamine co-enzyme, thiamine pyrophosphate reduces PDK mediated phosphorylation of PDH. Therefore, the objective of this study was to determine if high dose thiamine supplementation reduces cell proliferation through a DCA like mechanism.

Conclusion​

Our findings suggest that high dose thiamine reduces cancer cell proliferation by a mechanism similar to that described for dichloroacetate.
-end paste-

A Role for Thiamine Deficiency in Cancer - Hormones Matter Please read.
-paste-
"There is ever increasing evidence that energy metabolism is involved in the causation of cancer. A phenomenon known as the Warburg effect has been known for a century and was thought by Warburg to be the cause of cancer. To summarize this effect, normal cells primarily produce energy by the consumption of oxygen in a complex mechanism known as oxidative phosphorylation. This involves the consumption of glucose as fuel. The Warburg effect is because most cancer cells produce energy through a high rate of glucose metabolism by fermentation, even though there is abundant oxygen present. This is a less efficient method of producing energy, an effect that has been much studied but whose mechanism still remains unclear.

In cancer research today, the focus has been primarily on genetic mechanisms and the Warburg effect is considered to be a result derived from these genetic changes rather than the underlying cause. However, energy is vital to normal cell function, so a drop in energy synthesis might be a defect that has a secondary effect on genetically determined mechanisms. Since the vitamin, thiamine, is so closely involved with the metabolism of glucose, it is not surprising that a few researchers have looked at the involvement of this vitamin in relationship to the cause of cancer. For this reason I turned to looking at what medical literature has been published in regard to this and was surprised to find that it was relatively abundant."

thank you for sharing this. I do feel a bid scared to try it after reading how it is so dose dependent. Plus, I am dealing with a very slow growing blood lymphoma (waldenstrom macroglobulinemia) that wasn't tested. It seems helpful to see that it seems that low fat diet could be helpful and high fat could be detrimental. I have been following a low fat diet. Trying to keep fat below 15% of calories and only saturated fats.

 

[mostlylurking]

thank you for sharing this. I do feel a bid scared to try it after reading how it is so dose dependent. Plus, I am dealing with a very slow growing blood lymphoma (waldenstrom macroglobulinemia) that wasn't tested. It seems helpful to see that it seems that low fat diet could be helpful and high fat could be detrimental. I have been following a low fat diet. Trying to keep fat below 15% of calories and only saturated fats.

So long as you take higher doses of thiamine (greater than 100mg/day) it should be either neutral or beneficial for you. It just makes everything in your body work better. I've been high dosing thiamine hcl (1 gram, 2Xday) for 3 years and am doing very well on it.

I searched for "lymphoma" and "thiamine" and found multiple articles you might find of interest.

Here's one (or two):

B-cell lymphoma, thiamine deficiency, and lactic acidosis

Type B lactic acidosis is found in the absence of tissue hypoperfusion, can be associated with malignancies, and can be caused by thiamine deficiency. We present a patient who presented with an abdominal mass that biopsy disclosed to be a diffuse large ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

also

Treatment of Refractory Lactic Acidosis With Thiamine Administration in a Non-alcoholic Patient

Lactate, or lactic acid, is an end-product of anaerobic metabolism. The build-up of lactate in the body is commonly due to type A lactic acidosis, resulting from an inability to meet the body’s oxygen delivery demands. When lactic acidosis persists, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
Lactate is an end-product of anaerobic metabolism, produced by most tissues in the body, and is often used as a prognostic indicator clinically. There are many causes of lactic acidosis, including but not limited to sepsis, hypovolemia, medications, hypoxia, and systemic hypoperfusion. There are three types of lactic acidosis: type A, B, and D. Type A lactic acidosis results from marked hypoxia causing tissue hypoperfusion in the setting of septic shock, cardiopulmonary arrest, or hypovolemia [3]. Clinically, this manifests as impaired mental status, cold, clammy skin, decreased urine output, and hypotension [4]. In the setting of hypoxia, there is insufficient oxygen for aerobic metabolism, forcing pyruvate to be shuttled into anaerobic metabolism, with lactic acid as the byproduct. Type D lactic acidosis is rare and is usually seen in patients with underlying malabsorption, such as short bowel syndrome or small bowel resection. In these cases, bacteria found within the colon metabolize glucose and starches, which otherwise would be absorbed by the small intestine, into D-lactic acid [5]. D-lactic acid, in turn, builds up in the circulation causing metabolic acidosis. Type D lactic acidosis has also been associated with diabetic ketoacidosis [6] and large ingestions of propylene glycol [7]. Type B lactic acidosis, unlike type A, is not associated with hypoxia but rather is due to problems in lactate metabolism resulting in lactate buildup within the circulation. It can be medication-induced, especially with the use of metformin [8], inhaled beta-agonists, and propofol [9]. Type B lactic acidosis is also seen in chronic alcoholism and various hematologic malignancies [10] such as leukemia or lymphoma.
-end paste-

In 2020, my thiamine function got blocked from taking Bactrim antibiotic. I got really sick and developed lactic acidosis. I knew from reading Ray Peat's work that I was experiencing Otto Warburg's cancer metabolism. I remembered Haidut said (somewhere) that thiamine lowers lactic acid so I tried taking 300-350 mg of thiamine hcl one afternoon with water only. Within 45 minutes all my inflammation disappeared, my head fog cleared, and my body temperature went up a full degree to normal (98.6). It made a really big impression on me so I researched thiamine. I've posted a lot about it here on the forum.

 

[movebetter]

So long as you take higher doses of thiamine (greater than 100mg/day) it should be either neutral or beneficial for you. It just makes everything in your body work better. I've been high dosing thiamine hcl (1 gram, 2Xday) for 3 years and am doing very well on it.

I searched for "lymphoma" and "thiamine" and found multiple articles you might find of interest.

Here's one (or two):

B-cell lymphoma, thiamine deficiency, and lactic acidosis

Type B lactic acidosis is found in the absence of tissue hypoperfusion, can be associated with malignancies, and can be caused by thiamine deficiency. We present a patient who presented with an abdominal mass that biopsy disclosed to be a diffuse large ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

also

Treatment of Refractory Lactic Acidosis With Thiamine Administration in a Non-alcoholic Patient

Lactate, or lactic acid, is an end-product of anaerobic metabolism. The build-up of lactate in the body is commonly due to type A lactic acidosis, resulting from an inability to meet the body’s oxygen delivery demands. When lactic acidosis persists, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

-paste-
Lactate is an end-product of anaerobic metabolism, produced by most tissues in the body, and is often used as a prognostic indicator clinically. There are many causes of lactic acidosis, including but not limited to sepsis, hypovolemia, medications, hypoxia, and systemic hypoperfusion. There are three types of lactic acidosis: type A, B, and D. Type A lactic acidosis results from marked hypoxia causing tissue hypoperfusion in the setting of septic shock, cardiopulmonary arrest, or hypovolemia [3]. Clinically, this manifests as impaired mental status, cold, clammy skin, decreased urine output, and hypotension [4]. In the setting of hypoxia, there is insufficient oxygen for aerobic metabolism, forcing pyruvate to be shuttled into anaerobic metabolism, with lactic acid as the byproduct. Type D lactic acidosis is rare and is usually seen in patients with underlying malabsorption, such as short bowel syndrome or small bowel resection. In these cases, bacteria found within the colon metabolize glucose and starches, which otherwise would be absorbed by the small intestine, into D-lactic acid [5]. D-lactic acid, in turn, builds up in the circulation causing metabolic acidosis. Type D lactic acidosis has also been associated with diabetic ketoacidosis [6] and large ingestions of propylene glycol [7]. Type B lactic acidosis, unlike type A, is not associated with hypoxia but rather is due to problems in lactate metabolism resulting in lactate buildup within the circulation. It can be medication-induced, especially with the use of metformin [8], inhaled beta-agonists, and propofol [9]. Type B lactic acidosis is also seen in chronic alcoholism and various hematologic malignancies [10] such as leukemia or lymphoma.
-end paste-

In 2020, my thiamine function got blocked from taking Bactrim antibiotic. I got really sick and developed lactic acidosis. I knew from reading Ray Peat's work that I was experiencing Otto Warburg's cancer metabolism. I remembered Haidut said (somewhere) that thiamine lowers lactic acid so I tried taking 300-350 mg of thiamine hcl one afternoon with water only. Within 45 minutes all my inflammation disappeared, my head fog cleared, and my body temperature went up a full degree to normal (98.6). It made a really big impression on me so I researched thiamine. I've posted a lot about it here on the forum.

Hi, thanks, wow! that sounds like a miracle how the thiamine helped you. Is there a test to see if it is low? Is there any way to test if lactic acid is high?
A few months ago I tried thiamine, both TTFD and mononitrate, neither seemed to do anything. I will try the hcl now. What brand do you use?
I will check out your other posts on B-1.

 

[mostlylurking]

Is there a test to see if it is low? Is there any way to test if lactic acid is high?

Unfortunately, finding a lab that offers a reliable test for thiamine status has proven impossible (I'm in the US). Lactic acid hurts; it causes inflammation. A little lactic acid build up after exercising that dissipates quickly isn't a problem. But lactic acid that causes pain for days after exercise of any kind is concerning.

Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement. Simply taking 300-350 mgs with water only and at least 30 minutes away from eating is can probably tell you what you need to know within an hour. Taking thiamine with sugar cancels out the effect.

Here's some info about testing for thiamine status:
Thiamine Deficiency Testing: Understanding the Labs - Hormones Matter

What brand do you use?

I use purebulk's thiamine hcl.

 

[movebetter]

Unfortunately, finding a lab that offers a reliable test for thiamine status has proven impossible (I'm in the US). Lactic acid hurts; it causes inflammation. A little lactic acid build up after exercising that dissipates quickly isn't a problem. But lactic acid that causes pain for days after exercise of any kind is concerning.

Thiamine hcl is considered a safe supplement. Simply taking 300-350 mgs with water only and at least 30 minutes away from eating is can probably tell you what you need to know within an hour. Taking thiamine with sugar cancels out the effect.

Here's some info about testing for thiamine status:
Thiamine Deficiency Testing: Understanding the Labs - Hormones Matter

I use purebulk's thiamine hcl.

That sounds good, does brand matter? I am in Hawaii and their shipping here is very expensive.

 

[mostlylurking]

That sounds good, does brand matter? I am in Hawaii and their shipping here is very expensive.

I like Purebulk, but I have also used BulkSupplements thiamine. My inclination is to purchase from Purebulk. When you are buying a bulk supplement, purity is a consideration. You can request a COA from the company that will hopefully provide a clearer picture of what you are considering purchasing.

 

[movebetter]

I like Purebulk, but I have also used BulkSupplements thiamine. My inclination is to purchase from Purebulk. When you are buying a bulk supplement, purity is a consideration. You can request a COA from the company that will hopefully provide a clearer picture of what you are considering purchasing.

Hi, thanks again for all of your help. I ordered this thinking I can try it and if I get any good results I can the move to Purebulk. What do you think? Amazon product ASIN B000Z90BR8View: https://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Vitamin-Thiamin-500-Tablets/dp/B000Z90BR8/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3VYTI3ZGWLX78&keywords=Super+Potency+Vitamin+B1%28Thiamin&qid=1702669704&sprefix=super+potency+vitamin+b1+thiamin%2Caps%2C940&sr=8-1

 

[mostlylurking]

Hi, thanks again for all of your help. I ordered this thinking I can try it and if I get any good results I can the move to Purebulk. What do you think? Amazon product ASIN B000Z90BR8View: https://www.amazon.com/Solgar-Vitamin-Thiamin-500-Tablets/dp/B000Z90BR8/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3VYTI3ZGWLX78&keywords=Super+Potency+Vitamin+B1%28Thiamin&qid=1702669704&sprefix=super+potency+vitamin+b1+thiamin%2Caps%2C940&sr=8-1

I wouldn't buy it simply for the fact that on Amazon (at the link provided) they actually do not provide the contents of the supplement or even what kind of thiamine is being sold.

Sleuthing turned this up from here: Vitamin B1 (Thiamin) 500 mg Tablets - General Health - Solgar

Supplement Facts​

Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Serving	%DV
Vitamin B1 (as thiamin HCI)	500mg	41,667%
*Daily Value (DV) not established

Ingredients​

Microcrystalline Cellulose, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vegetable Cellulose, Vegetable Stearic Acid, Silica, Vegetable Magnesium Stearate, Vegetable Glycerin.
-end paste-

So you are getting 100 capsules @ 500mg each = 50 grams of thiamine hcl for $21.17, which equals to $0.4234 per gram versus purebulk's price of $20.90 for 100 grams = $0.209 per gram. But you also get all those excipients included with your purchase. I've never been able fathom why they put silica (ground glass) into supplements. It's best to avoid excipients if possible.

bioenergetic search

Transcript search engine

bioenergetic.life

Here's a Peat quote: "Yeah, but you have to be careful with the excipients. So many products have strange junk. I don't advise eating, you know, stilica for example is something that's in a lot of products and methylcellulose isn't good. Just have to be careful of what the additives are."

 

[movebetter]

I wouldn't buy it simply for the fact that on Amazon (at the link provided) they actually do not provide the contents of the supplement or even what kind of thiamine is being sold.

Sleuthing turned this up from here: Vitamin B1 (Thiamin) 500 mg Tablets - General Health - Solgar

Supplement Facts ​

Serving Size: 1 Tablet
Amount Per Serving	%DV
Vitamin B1 (as thiamin HCI)	500mg	41,667%
*Daily Value (DV) not established

Ingredients​

Microcrystalline Cellulose, Dicalcium Phosphate, Vegetable Cellulose, Vegetable Stearic Acid, Silica, Vegetable Magnesium Stearate, Vegetable Glycerin.
-end paste-

So you are getting 100 capsules @ 500mg each = 50 grams of thiamine hcl for $21.17, which equals to $0.4234 per gram versus purebulk's price of $20.90 for 100 grams = $0.209 per gram. But you also get all those excipients included with your purchase. I've never been able fathom why they put silica (ground glass) into supplements. It's best to avoid excipients if possible.

bioenergetic search

Transcript search engine

bioenergetic.life

Here's a Peat quote: "Yeah, but you have to be careful with the excipients. So many products have strange junk. I don't advise eating, you know, stilica for example is something that's in a lot of products and methylcellulose isn't good. Just have to be careful of what the additives are."

thanks, i really appreciate your knowledge on these subjects. I will send back my order and order from purebulk. is their vitamin E good? any other suggestions? my biggest complaint is fatigue and depression. Been doing what i can on Peat's protocol but not helping, and because i have very low platelet count i can"t take niacinamide or asprin, also i have a problem digesting meat but am ok with fish, dairy and eggs. Coffee is not good for me.

 

[mostlylurking]

thanks, i really appreciate your knowledge on these subjects. I will send back my order and order from purebulk. is their vitamin E good? any other suggestions? my biggest complaint is fatigue and depression. Been doing what i can on Peat's protocol but not helping, and because i have very low platelet count i can"t take niacinamide or asprin,

I don't know anything about purebulk's vitamin E, sorry. It might be fine. I use this vitamin E myself. I mix progesterone powder into it and it dissolves quickly into this vitamin E. I like the pump dispensing bottle. I take both progesterone and pregnenolone.

Fatigue and depression; I've been there. I go to a good endocrinologist for my hypothyroidism. He put me on NP Thyroid by Acella; it's a prescription desiccated thyroid product that actually works and is closely regulated by the FDA so it contains what it's supposed to contain. He wound up doubling my prior long term dose (of Armour desiccated thyroid) over a period of 9 months; it takes some time and patience to finally arrive at the optimum dose needed because the body has to get used to being able to rely on having it and stop making so much adrenaline which is the body's workaround to be able to keep going when there isn't enough thyroid hormone. If you are interested in going this route, asking local pharmacists who is prescribing this thyroid med could shorten your search for a good doctor. Acella provides patient resources here that may be helpful.

I have also benefited enormously from taking high dose thiamine hcl. I've posted a lot about it on the forum. I've also benefited from taking magnesium glycinate. I take this one.
info on magnesium:
Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited

i have a problem digesting meat but am ok with fish, dairy and eggs. Coffee is not good for me.

My digestion normalized via high dose thiamine hcl, including my low stomach acid so I can now eat meat again without problems. I cannot tolerate coffee; it blocks thiamine function. So does black tea.

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

also

Gastrointestinal Disease and Thiamine - Hormones Matter

Modern research has revealed that the GI tract has a very complex relationship with the rest of the body, especially the brain.

www.hormonesmatter.com

 

[movebetter]

I don't know anything about purebulk's vitamin E, sorry. It might be fine. I use this vitamin E myself. I mix progesterone powder into it and it dissolves quickly into this vitamin E. I like the pump dispensing bottle. I take both progesterone and pregnenolone.

Fatigue and depression; I've been there. I go to a good endocrinologist for my hypothyroidism. He put me on NP Thyroid by Acella; it's a prescription desiccated thyroid product that actually works and is closely regulated by the FDA so it contains what it's supposed to contain. He wound up doubling my prior long term dose (of Armour desiccated thyroid) over a period of 9 months; it takes some time and patience to finally arrive at the optimum dose needed because the body has to get used to being able to rely on having it and stop making so much adrenaline which is the body's workaround to be able to keep going when there isn't enough thyroid hormone. If you are interested in going this route, asking local pharmacists who is prescribing this thyroid med could shorten your search for a good doctor. Acella provides patient resources here that may be helpful.

I have also benefited enormously from taking high dose thiamine hcl. I've posted a lot about it on the forum. I've also benefited from taking magnesium glycinate. I take this one.
info on magnesium:
Magnesium Status and Stress: The Vicious Circle Concept Revisited


My digestion normalized via high dose thiamine hcl, including my low stomach acid so I can now eat meat again without problems. I cannot tolerate coffee; it blocks thiamine function. So does black tea.

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

also

Gastrointestinal Disease and Thiamine - Hormones Matter

Modern research has revealed that the GI tract has a very complex relationship with the rest of the body, especially the brain.

www.hormonesmatter.com

Hi, it sounds like we have some similarities. Maybe coffee depleted me due to lowering b1. I look forward to trying Purebulk b1. What brand of progesterone do you use and pregnenolone?
The vitamin e you take looks good, I will order some. I don't see a link for the magnesium.


Here are my thyroid numbers.

TSH 3.57 q 0.27-4.20
T3, Total 81 80-200

I tried cynomel t3, but it made me feel worse.

I will try to find a doctor who knows about Acella. But I am Maui and I doubt anyone here would even consider thyroid medication with my numbers. Does your doctor do telemedicine?

 

[movebetter]

Hi, it sounds like we have some similarities. Maybe coffee depleted me due to lowering b1. I look forward to trying Purebulk b1. What brand of progesterone do you use and pregnenolone?
The vitamin e you take looks good, I will order some. I don't see a link for the magnesium.


Here are my thyroid numbers.

TSH 3.57 q 0.27-4.20
T3, Total 81 80-200

I tried cynomel t3, but it made me feel worse.

I will try to find a doctor who knows about Acella. But I am Maui and I doubt anyone here would even consider thyroid medication with my numbers. Does your doctor do telemedicine?

I found the magnesium link