Are there ways to protect against fluroquinolone damage if you must take them

[ecstatichamster]

I wondered if you know anything about this. Thanks

 

[gaze]

my guess would be magnesium, calcium, vit E, vit C, glycine

 

[Birdie]

I don't think so just from reading the FDA warnings. But I'm sure you've read up on it. Is there no hope for using a less dangerous antibiotic..

 

[yerrag]

At the hospital a real stupid intern gave Cipro to my mom (stupid because she he detected chills, resulting from what I see to be low blood sugar from feeding my mom soybean oil -laced parenteral IV nutrition; to be fair all doctors are stupid for thinking PUFA is good).

I stopped the Cipro but too late. She couldn't sleep for a whole day (24 hours) and then fell into a deep sleep for 3 days. When she gained a bit of consciousness, she was spoonfed for a week. I made the food blend and made sure there was plenty sugar and magnesium. She didn't need to go to the hospice to await a slow passing, which the neurologist was suggesting. Instead, she was able to.go back home.

Cipro destroys the nerves. Sugar and magnesium counters the excitation that expends a lot of energy in nerve cells. When nerve cells run out of energy, they deteriorate and a point is reached when it is irreversible.

My dad, who had died earlier suffered from ALS, losing control of what the doctor called his sensorium,which controls the muscles needed for chewing and swallowing. It is a slow dying of nerve cells from using Cipro, which is used for treating UTI.

Observing the damage of Cipro and knowing of Peat's thoughts on magnesium and sugar helped my mom survive her hospital hell at that time.

 

[Lollipop2]

At the hospital a real stupid intern gave Cipro to my mom (stupid because she he detected chills, resulting from what I see to be low blood sugar from feeding my mom soybean oil -laced parenteral IV nutrition; to be fair all doctors are stupid for thinking PUFA is good).

I stopped the Cipro but too late. She couldn't sleep for a whole day (24 hours) and then fell into a deep sleep for 3 days. When she gained a bit of consciousness, she was spoonfed for a week. I made the food blend and made sure there was plenty sugar and magnesium. She didn't need to go to the hospice to await a slow passing, which the neurologist was suggesting. Instead, she was able to.go back home.

Cipro destroys the nerves. Sugar and magnesium counters the excitation that expends a lot of energy in nerve cells. When nerve cells run out of energy, they deteriorate and a point is reached when it is irreversible.

My dad, who had died earlier suffered from ALS, losing control of what the doctor called his sensorium,which controls the muscles needed for chewing and swallowing. It is a slow dying of nerve cells from using Cipro, which is used for treating UTI.

Observing the damage of Cipro and knowing of Peat's thoughts on magnesium and sugar helped my mom survive her hospital hell at that time.

What a horrible story @yerrag. She is lucky to have you. Hope she is better now. Sad to hear about your father. Crazy how iatrogenic deaths are so high and no one cares to stop the madness.

 

[gaze]

My dad, who had died earlier suffered from ALS, losing control of what the doctor called his sensorium,which controls the muscles needed for chewing and swallowing. It is a slow dying of nerve cells from using Cipro, which is used for treating UTI.

cipro caused your dads ALS?

 

[yerrag]

cipro caused your dads ALS?

Yes. It's a nerve issue. Of couse the doctors will just tell us to be thankful he lived long and that it is what happens to old people.

But if they were aware that 4 X 10mg of MB were already being used effectively to treat UTI (if they aren't so enamored with the latest and greatest and most expensive drugs), it would have allowed people to live longer in health.

What a horrible story @yerrag. She is lucky to have you. Hope she is better now. Sad to hear about your father. Crazy how iatrogenic deaths are so high and no one cares to stop the madness.

Thanks. My mom had passed away already. UTI was a recuring problem. Only learned of MB after she died.

When you know enough and you see what hospitals and their doctors do, you will lose faith in prayers for the sick if healing is what you seek. Better to be ignorant and accede to God's purported will.

 

[Prota]

Two months ago, covid, 6 days on FQ. Every day honey, milk, D (5000-10000), zinc (50), famotidine (20), vit E (200), K2-mk4 (1-3), aspirin (500; before bed), here and there some MB and probiotic. Some digestive problems, nausea, recovered quickly.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’m concerned about giving her anything really because it is unpredictable with the cipro. Other than vitamins, or progesterone, say. Thank you for your ideas and Posts. That’s an awful story @yerrag

This is not an easy thing. Some people have illnesses that aren’t fixed with other antibiotics and there is no choice. And most people who take these don’t end up dying or extremely sick, so it isn’t inevitable. I took levofloxacin last year for pneumonia and it was a successful cure when nothing else was and I probably would have died otherwise.

 

[Tim Lundeen]

I don't know why anyone would take fluoride-based drugs. There are much better and safer alternatives. Period.

 

[Gustav3Y]

As I can see doctors consider Levofloxacine better than Augmentin for example in pretty much all related to respiratory or urinary issues, I've seen it prescribed left and right without any sort of worry.


What are some opinions on Cefuroxime, I rarely see any talk about it, yet doctors seems to also prescribe it quite often too.

 

[Rasaari]

As I can see doctors consider Levofloxacine better than Augmentin for example in pretty much all related to respiratory or urinary issues, I've seen it prescribed left and right without any sort of worry.


What are some opinions on Cefuroxime, I rarely see any talk about it, yet doctors seems to also prescribe it quite often too.

Fluoroquinolones are very powerful and toxic, but for some reason doctors refuse to acknowledge the toxicity. There was a story in the state media about a guy who got psychosis from cipro and was admitted to mental hospital. The doctors refused to draw the connection and he got marked as having psychosis in the medical records, which makes things very hard (insurances, mortgage, employment, health care etc.) Finally after few years of fighting he was able to get a doctor recognize the connection and get rid of the medical record.

The aminopenicillins with beta-lactam inhibitor are fantastic antibiotics, effective against a lot of strains and one of the safest abx out there. But for some reasons doctors like to use cephalosporins, which really should be used over aminopenicillins only if there's a good sensitivity against a clinical strain, like pseudonomas. Cephalosporins are less sensitive to beta lactamase but afaik beta lactam inhibitor is still much more effective (clavunic, sulbactam, tazobactam). So no point using ceph over augmentin. Cephalosporins have some nervous system and kidney side-effects while aminopenicillins can be stressful for liver.

For bladder infections methylene blue reigns supreme as it accumulates there, unfortunately I don't think its sufficient for the tract. Augmentin, bactrim and doxy would be good first liners for the tract.

Here's a good abx coverage chart to help guide direction. Obviously regional strain sensitivities vary. Also doxy should have mrsa and klebsiella coverage in many strains.

 

[Peatful]

Avelox had a class action lawsuit.
These are poisonous.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Fluoroquinolones are very powerful and toxic, but for some reason doctors refuse to acknowledge the toxicity. There was a story in the state media about a guy who got psychosis from cipro and was admitted to mental hospital. The doctors refused to draw the connection and he got marked as having psychosis in the medical records, which makes things very hard (insurances, mortgage, employment, health care etc.) Finally after few years of fighting he was able to get a doctor recognize the connection and get rid of the medical record.

The aminopenicillins with beta-lactam inhibitor are fantastic antibiotics, effective against a lot of strains and one of the safest abx out there. But for some reasons doctors like to use cephalosporins, which really should be used over aminopenicillins only if there's a good sensitivity against a clinical strain, like pseudonomas. Cephalosporins are less sensitive to beta lactamase but afaik beta lactam inhibitor is still much more effective (clavunic, sulbactam, tazobactam). So no point using ceph over augmentin. Cephalosporins have some nervous system and kidney side-effects while aminopenicillins can be stressful for liver.

For bladder infections methylene blue reigns supreme as it accumulates there, unfortunately I don't think its sufficient for the tract. Augmentin, bactrim and doxy would be good first liners for the tract.

Here's a good abx coverage chart to help guide direction. Obviously regional strain sensitivities vary. Also doxy should have mrsa and klebsiella coverage in many strains.

The way I wrote it maybe made it seem like I was advocating for it because of the doctors, I was only trying to state something I have found to be factual as far as doctors' prescriptions.
I was kind of trying to imply they are not caring about any possible issues.
If anything you are warmed about Amoxicillin or Augmentin as possibly causing issues, as in an allergic reaction.


That chart kind of suggests why Levofloxacine and Ciprofolxacine are used, bigger change to nail it, I guess one of the reasons.


I have taken Cefuroxime twice. I am not sure if I was not affected by it.
For example I had an infect premolar extracted that also infected the sinus because it spred from the tooth, later it appeared that 3 teeth actually sent an infection into the sinus.
48hours after the 1st premolar extraction I started developing a rocking sensation with dizziness and muscle twitches since September 2020 until now.
Hard to tell what it was, but it just appeared 48 hours all of the sudden. Administration was 2 weeks.

 

[Rasaari]

The way I wrote it maybe made it seem like I was advocating for it because of the doctors, I was only trying to state something I have found to be factual as far as doctors' prescriptions.
I was kind of trying to imply they are not caring about any possible issues.
If anything you are warmed about Amoxicillin or Augmentin as possibly causing issues, as in an allergic reaction.


That chart kind of suggests why Levofloxacine and Ciprofolxacine are used, bigger change to nail it, I guess one of the reasons.


I have taken Cefuroxime twice. I am not sure if I was not affected by it.
For example I had an infect premolar extracted that also infected the sinus because it spred from the tooth, later it appeared that 3 teeth actually sent an infection into the sinus.
48hours after the 1st premolar extraction I started developing a rocking sensation with dizziness and muscle twitches since September 2020 until now.
Hard to tell what it was, but it just appeared 48 hours all of the sudden. Administration was 2 weeks.

No I understood you, I was just beating a dead horse

Yeah the fluoroquinolones have wide range of spectrum but other than moxi lack any good anaerobic coverage so many times they are combined with another less than ideal abx metronidazole. Again augmentin shines, as it has nice coverage of anaerobes, making metro unnecessary in most cases. Here for intestinal infections drs usually prescribe cephalexin and metronidazole.
Fluoroquinolones also have very low MIC and penetrate tissues well and biofilms too. Due to the low MIC they are the most likely to clear an infection, so an easy choice for a doctor who wants patients cured quickly no matter what. But they should be really a last resort abx, as they are powerful so resistance should be avoided at all costs and they have nasty sides. Here they dont use fluoros so much, atleast dont know anybody who had them.

So you think cefuroxime caused the neurological issues? Thats a long time to suffer from that, nothing helping?

 

[Gustav3Y]

So you think cefuroxime caused the neurological issues? Thats a long time to suffer from that, nothing helping?

Well maybe it is not the Cefuroxime that caused it, maybe was the extraction itself, or what on earth could cause it exactly after it, even if I was with that infection maybe an entire year before having these sort of issues. Also I have been quite the non-dizzy type before, pistol squats, casual pirouettes, spins daily, dancing to music very often ll my life.
I could get nausea most of the time from being in a car that takes a lot of curves on the road as a passenger, I guess that was the only real relatable issue to what I could have now. But that was not 100% of the time.
Unfortunately most of the thing I take aggravate the situation so I can't really just take anything like that, but I did tried a lot.

One big irony which may worth being mentioned is before this issues I could drink or eat ginger and now just worsens the symptoms I have.

Since doctor inherently believe in coincidences they just said all it is a big coincidence, nothing is related.
It did not develop over time, it just started all of the sudden after 48hours, maybe at max 72hours after the extraction and prescribed drugs.

 

[Nicky]

fluroquinolone​

Everybody should say no to fluroquinolone, kills everything, gram positive, gram negative, anaerobic,aerobic, even has a black box warning, a very toxic drug.
A veterinarian, I knew took his prescribed dose and while driving started to hallucinate, how scary is that.
Flagyl is a nightmare also.

NK

 

[Rasaari]

Well maybe it is not the Cefuroxime that caused it, maybe was the extraction itself, or what on earth could cause it exactly after it, even if I was with that infection maybe an entire year before having these sort of issues. Also I have been quite the non-dizzy type before, pistol squats, casual pirouettes, spins daily, dancing to music very often ll my life.
I could get nausea most of the time from being in a car that takes a lot of curves on the road as a passenger, I guess that was the only real relatable issue to what I could have now. But that was not 100% of the time.
Unfortunately most of the thing I take aggravate the situation so I can't really just take anything like that, but I did tried a lot.

One big irony which may worth being mentioned is before this issues I could drink or eat ginger and now just worsens the symptoms I have.

Since doctor inherently believe in coincidences they just said all it is a big coincidence, nothing is related.
It did not develop over time, it just started all of the sudden after 48hours, maybe at max 72hours after the extraction and prescribed drugs.

Have you tried any antiserotonin drug? Progesterone? Those are some things that come to mind... The car sickness is definitely serotonin, when the intestine bounces it can easily leak endotoxin. When my intestine was overgrown/latent infection, bumpy car rides were horrible.

 

[yerrag]

I’m concerned about giving her anything really because it is unpredictable with the cipro. Other than vitamins, or progesterone, say. Thank you for your ideas and Posts. That’s an awful story @yerrag

This is not an easy thing. Some people have illnesses that aren’t fixed with other antibiotics and there is no choice. And most people who take these don’t end up dying or extremely sick, so it isn’t inevitable. I took levofloxacin last year for pneumonia and it was a successful cure when nothing else was and I probably would have died otherwise.

You make a good point about individual sensitivities. It made me realize also that I failed to mention that both my mom and dad had used Cipro and Levaquin/Lebofloxacin regularly enough for their ever recurring UTI conditions and both did not suffer ill effects each time they used them for UTI, despite their advanced years.

For my dad, it was the cumulative effect of regular usage that slowly caused the loss of his sensorium.

For my mom, it was the iatrogenically induced hypoglycemia from soya oil-laced IV parenteral nutrition compounded by the stupid doc's wanton use of Cipro on her.

I could imagine that people with hypoglycemic tendencies would be more sensitive to the side effects of fluoroquinolones.

 

[Gustav3Y]

Have you tried any antiserotonin drug? Progesterone? Those are some things that come to mind... The car sickness is definitely serotonin, when the intestine bounces it can easily leak endotoxin. When my intestine was overgrown/latent infection, bumpy car rides were horrible.

The car sickness is random, but for me it is not bumpy, it is curvy roads, lots of curves that press you on the left and right of the vehicle.
Not that it happened all time.
Progesterone does not help at all. just causes everything to hurt and ache at low doses.
By anti serotonin if you mean Cyproheptadine, I tried it again recently topically with with only 0.5mg I started getting constant nightmares, I had to stop it, as you can imagine made no positive impact for any of the issues, rocking feeling, muscle twiches, etc.
I have tried a lot of theories and tactics, almost everything makes it worse even other anti-histamines (which baffles anyone, even me)

As for antibiotics several months ago I had a 14days of Augmentin, due to a new intervention on the maxilla, I hoped that Augmentin would clear some who know what bacteria that Cefuroxime might have not been able to handle who know what could cause, but it did nothing for me.