Vit C Makes You Practically Immune To Heart Disease?

[TheSir]

I remember reading an anecdote from a 60 year old man who had been taking 10g of ascorbic acid every day for years, his doctor said that he had the arteries of a teenager. Now, 10g seems like overkill, and significant benefits can probably be achieved at much, much smaller dosing. What I'm interested in knowing is: since vit C participates in the maintenance and repair of the walls of the veins and arteries, is there a dosage that allows the endothelium be repaired faster than new damage is caused, effectively immunizing one against atheroclerosis?

What other ways are there to strongly protect against heart disease? I can't seem to shake off the worry that I am damaging my arteries with whatever my dietary and lifestyle habits are (fat, no fat, sugar, no sugar, exercise, no exercise etc.), and the worst thing is that there are no good external signs for gauging the health of your circulatory system. The tiniest plaque in the tiniest artery could result in a fatal heart attack, very much out of the blue. It could happen by the time I hit 30. It could happen in my 70s. Or it could never happen. The uncertainty is driving me mad. I find myself imagining what a heart attack feels like, almost expecting it to hit at any moment. Some of this is clearly a manifestation of general anxiety, I am aware, but there is some real worry and confusion mixed in. I dislike the idea that I am damaging my body without realizing it.

 

[redsun]

I remember reading an anecdote from a 60 year old man who had been taking 10g of ascorbic acid every day for years, his doctor said that he had the arteries of a teenager. Now, 10g seems like overkill, and significant benefits can probably be achieved at much, much smaller dosing. What I'm interested in knowing is: since vit C participates in the maintenance and repair of the walls of the veins and arteries, is there a dosage that allows the endothelium be repaired faster than new damage is caused, effectively immunizing one against atheroclerosis?

What other ways are there to strongly protect against heart disease? I can't seem to shake off the worry that I am damaging my arteries with whatever my dietary and lifestyle habits are (fat, no fat, sugar, no sugar, exercise, no exercise etc.), and the worst thing is that there are no good external signs for gauging the health of your circulatory system. The tiniest plaque in the tiniest artery could result in a fatal heart attack, very much out of the blue. It could happen by the time I hit 30. It could happen in my 70s. Or it could never happen. The uncertainty is driving me mad. I find myself imagining what a heart attack feels like, almost expecting it to hit at any moment. Some of this is clearly a manifestation of general anxiety, I am aware, but there is some real worry and confusion mixed in. I dislike the idea that I am damaging my body without realizing it.

Vitamin C is an interesting vitamin. Its also been used alongside B3 for treating schizophrenia. Supposedly ascorbic acid increases copper excretion so you'd think 10g of C for years would have induced copper deficiency especially because if I recall correctly it also antagonizes absorption of copper while increasing iron absorption. It also helps utilize iron and I am pretty sure iron and vitamin c are both cofactors for some of the enzymes essential to collagen production.

I think if one wants to optimize circulatory health, you want optimal intake of all the nutrients needed to make blood and to maintain collagen. B6, B12, folate, iron, zinc, vitamin C being the main ones. Intake of collagen amino acids would help. Salt also helps the blood vessels by reducing noradrenaline.

If I were you, I would try to shake off the worry. Its more so excessive stress + crappy, PUFA laden diet that is low in reparative nutrients that would cause artery problems. Fat and sugar is not going to clog the arteries, high malnutrition will though.

 

[BigChad]

Vitamin C is an interesting vitamin. Its also been used alongside B3 for treating schizophrenia. Supposedly ascorbic acid increases copper excretion so you'd think 10g of C for years would have induced copper deficiency especially because if I recall correctly it also antagonizes absorption of copper while increasing iron absorption. It also helps utilize iron and I am pretty sure iron and vitamin c are both cofactors for some of the enzymes essential to collagen production.

I think if one wants to optimize circulatory health, you want optimal intake of all the nutrients needed to make blood and to maintain collagen. B6, B12, folate, iron, zinc, vitamin C being the main ones. Intake of collagen amino acids would help. Salt also helps the blood vessels by reducing noradrenaline.

If I were you, I would try to shake off the worry. Its more so excessive stress + crappy, PUFA laden diet that is low in reparative nutrients that would cause artery problems. Fat and sugar is not going to clog the arteries, high malnutrition will though.

How does vitamin c antagonize copper absorption? I heard it depletes copper but i thought antagonizing absorption was something unique to zinc and metallothionen

 

[ExCarniv]

How does vitamin c antagonize copper absorption? I heard it depletes copper but i thought antagonizing absorption was something unique to zinc and metallothionen

That's why orange juice is better than synthetic Ascorbic acid, oranges have decent amount of copper paired with vitamin C, plus potassium and traces of calcium and Magnesium.

 

[CLASH]

Vit C is a cofactor with copper for collagen production throughout the body including the endothelium. As per linus paulings work it is indeed protective against heart disease. Vit C does effect copper absorption in the intestine but as far as I understand, the copper in the body is made more usable by vit C due to its functions in oxidation/reduction.

It is probably best to rely on vit C from fruit sources due to possible concerns of intestinal irritation and deranged copper metabolism with super high doses. Acerola and pineapple are great sources.

As far as heart disease goes, avoiding endotoxin (gut/ gum/ other latent infectios), PUFA, and excess iron will go a long way towards prevention. Add in adequate vit C consumption from fruits, optimizing thyroid with a supplement if needed or through dietary/ lifestyle measures, and avoiding immunogenic foods like wheat, soy and possibly dairy in certain individuals and heart disease risk should be severely mitigated.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Any idea what "optimal" Vitamin C is? Not just to get a minimum, but for a more preventive/therapeutic benefit. Mainstream RDA/etc. is useless as it says, "Just get 90mg and you're good." Is that really good though, in cases of less than "perfectly healthy" or such? That's like eating 2 tangerines a day only -- or just an orange or something. Yeah, getting it naturally from carbs/fruits is probably good, but I don't think all supplements are necessarily bad though if you go down that route.

I just have literally zero idea what would be a good target point other than just drinking/eating whatever I please (but this may not be reliable in my case). Since I drink like 3-4 cups of OJ and sometimes grape juice and other fortified sources of ascorbic acid at times, I probably get 300-600mg a day, give or take, on average.

Does this sound good? Some people here talk about taking 5 grams every day for health improvements/clogged arteries/other issues. Is that preventive or more used as a cure/treatment? The difference in each can be dramatic. I'm thinking of looking in to some work by Linus Pauling and some books on the subject to get a clearer idea on what would work for me, but as of now I'm pretty clueless. It's not like your body tells you how much you need/could utilize at any given time in exact form sadly!

 

[CLASH]

@ScurveDream

I'm not sure the optimal dose, although I doubt the RDA is a reliable indicator. As far as avenues to determine optimal dosage perhaps taking a look at what our great ape relatives ingest/ produce on a daily basis would be helpful?

If you want to supplement, I'd say go for it and see how you do. I've tried plain ascorbic acid, it benefited me for a while until it didnt. Now I rely on frozen acerola and all the fruits and fruit juice I ingest (my main and only source of carbs).

I think getting enough vit C is just as important for heart health as avoiding things that damage the vascular system and thus increase the requirement for vit C. I think its a bit similar to vit E, with less PUFA consumption there is a lower requirement for vit E.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

@ScurveDream

I'm not sure the optimal dose, although I doubt the RDA is a reliable indicator. As far as avenues to determine optimal dosage perhaps taking a look at what our great ape relatives ingest/ produce on a daily basis would be helpful?

If you want to supplement, I'd say go for it and see how you do. I've tried plain ascorbic acid, it benefited me for a while until it didnt. Now I rely on frozen acerola and all the fruits and fruit juice I ingest (my main and only source of carbs).

I think getting enough vit C is just as important for heart health as avoiding things that damage the vascular system and thus increase the requirement for vit C. I think its a bit similar to vit E, with less PUFA consumption there is a lower requirement for vit E.

Yeah, I need to do more research and see what I can make of it.

Good points on the Vit. E in relation to PUFA though. I don't use topicals so I only get vitamin E through supplemental (usually beta tocopherol) and oral use.

Anyone know how effective oral Vitamin E is as beta tocopherol? I avoid ascorbic and try to get more OJ, grape juice and etc. for C and that usually feels fine, but no idea on E use orally.

 

[BigChad]

@ScurveDream

I'm not sure the optimal dose, although I doubt the RDA is a reliable indicator. As far as avenues to determine optimal dosage perhaps taking a look at what our great ape relatives ingest/ produce on a daily basis would be helpful?

If you want to supplement, I'd say go for it and see how you do. I've tried plain ascorbic acid, it benefited me for a while until it didnt. Now I rely on frozen acerola and all the fruits and fruit juice I ingest (my main and only source of carbs).

I think getting enough vit C is just as important for heart health as avoiding things that damage the vascular system and thus increase the requirement for vit C. I think its a bit similar to vit E, with less PUFA consumption there is a lower requirement for vit E.

What do you mean with vitamin c being similar to vitamin e. More vascular damage requires more vitamin c?

 

[CLASH]

@BigChad
Yes, more damage to the vascular requires more vit C, as it is a co-factor in the repair of collagenous structures