Antidepressants

Discussion in 'Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by mandance, Jul 15, 2013.

  1. mandance

    mandance Member

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    How many of you have been on them, how many of you have gotten off of them and what were your experiences? If you did take them, how long did you take them for?

    Ray Peat often talks about the destructive effects of seratonin and estrogen, but I dont believe I have read anywhere about the long term damage caused by taking anti depressants....I know that its still relatively unknown but I am curious. I am 29 and trying to get off of them again, I have been on them since a teen. And was on Ritalin before that. Is it possible to recover from the mayhem they have caused after that long?

    I would love to hear other peoples experiences. Trying to get off these things is complete hell and there is much learned helplessness that seems to be associated amoung many other problems.
     
  2. j.

    j. Guest

    Long term use of anti-depressants I think changes brain images.
     
  3. jaguar43

    jaguar43 Member

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    Some posted earlier that they don't even increase serotonin. I have known a women who was two years on a ssri, she develop fibrosis. Food first, then try medications in my opinion.
     
  4. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Been on them and got myself off them like, 4 different times over about 7 years. (Went off them for the last time four years ago). Sexual side effects were the worst thing about them at first. One of the times I was on them, I found a way around it by taking Gingko Biloba. But the last time I was on them, I began to have scary blood pressure issues (which resolved when I went off them). Also, the last time I was on them, they didn't work to help my anxiety like they had in the past. They did no good at all.

    Tapering off was a complete nightmare except when I got liquid Paxil and syringes so I could taper tiny tiny amounts at a time. Even then it was bad at times, but I made it through.

    I will never go on them again. Ever. That's just my personal experience.

    I've had better mental health on my RP woe because it feels like it's correcting an underlying problem.
     
  5. OP
    mandance

    mandance Member

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    Interesting indeed. Did you suffer any long lasting issues from the drugs? How long did it take you to be clear of side effects. I imagine though, your depression and or anxiety still persisted?
     
  6. Peata

    Peata Member

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    No long-lasting issues. Depending on how long I was on it each time as to low long side effects lingered. Some were gone almost immediately (sexual issues cleared up quick for example), others within a couple weeks I'd say (the worst of the "flu-like symptoms"), but to feel it was completely out of my system might have take up to 4 weeks in some cases. (Going by memory and it's been a long time). I remember one especially bad withdrawal before I knew to get the liquid Paxil and syringes - I was afraid I'd never feel better again, but everything eventually cleared up.
     
  7. OP
    mandance

    mandance Member

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    Glad to hear you are doing well and recovered from the madness. I am completely pill free in only a few more days. Ive already been beginning to feel the problems though. Chest pain, anxiety, fatigue etc. Did you feel tired and lethargic for awhile when getting off of them?

    I remember when I was younger, I had gotten off effexor, everything was going well for like 3 months, then I started getting my first run ins with panic attacks and anxiety. Up untl then, I never even knew what anxiety was. I think I was 24 then. So I freaked and got back on. lol Wish I didnt though.
     
  8. Peata

    Peata Member

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    Sorry for all you are going through right now. I understand. Just keep in mind that eventually you will feel good again. It just takes time for your body to clear the drug and its effects. It takes time for your body to get over its "addiction" to the drug.

    I went through bad times during this period of it leaving my system. Like I said, I felt bad for weeks, even with tapering with liquid Paxil. If I were using my Peat principles back then (I only found Peat this year) it might have gone a little better. Besides the woe itself, I would have utilized mineral water and aspirin, baking soda, salt, sugar, etc. Epsom salt baths, magnesium oil, bag breathing, etc.
     
  9. OP
    mandance

    mandance Member

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    Did you find your depression got worse before it got better and or anxiety as well? Peat def helps....a big glass of OJ seems to always feel good. And ive been doing bag breathing, it def. helps as well.
     
  10. Peata

    Peata Member

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    My main problem wasn't so much depression, but anxiety. But while coming off the SSRIs I did experience depression. It was because of several things, I suppose, chiefly because I felt like utter crap physically due to the withdrawal. Also, my brain had to readjust to the new levels of chemical since the drug was withdrawn, and there were symptoms. It all just added up to major suck. I took care of myself as best I could and distracted myself during the worst times, and kept reassuring myself this too would pass.

    In the time since going off SSRIs and recently finding Peat, yes my symptoms came and went and came again. That's because nothing was fixed once I was off the meds. I don't know if you are male or female, for some reason I assumed male, so if you are, you won't have the hormonal cyclical issues I do, which definitely make all the anxiety and stuff worse. Unfortunately, over many years, I used alcohol to help with my anxiety at times and this was a big mistake. It caused more problems, many more.

    I have used the RP way as much as I understand it and can apply to myself to help. Meditation or bag breathing helps. Also, looking to those around me who are opposite me on the anxiety scale and see how they react to things. I find that if they don't see something as a big deal, then I'm probably over-reacting and should re-think how I'm feeling and responding.

    That's also helped a lot - retraining my brain by changing my thought patterns and responses.

    All this hasn't been easy, but little by little I can see improvements. I have been an anxious person since I was a child, so if I never get completely better I can deal with it. I am happy enough with what improvements I've seen (though of course I hope to always be improving).

    It seemed like a full time job when I first started RP stuff, trying to keep temps up, eat and track things, but it gets to be more second nature as you get used to it and adapt it to your own life.
     
  11. j.

    j. Guest

    I wonder whether pregnenolone has positive effects on those with depression.
     
  12. 4peatssake

    4peatssake Member

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    I believe it does.
     
  13. Peata

    Peata Member

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    You mentioned anxiety/panic attacks. I remember when I had my first one. I called my father in the night sure I was having a heart attack (I was only in my mid 20s).

    In the years to come, I would have more, and they were absolutely horrible events that only those who've gone through them understand.

    What helped me to eventually learn to "fight them off" without the use of medication was to remind myself that I wasn't having a heart attack, and to practice breathing in through the nose.... out through the mouth very calmly. This helped a lot and it was also faking the calm til it became real, I guess. And if I still had an attack, I came to get kinda mad about it or just really disgusted with my fear - to the point where I'd think, "F-- it, if this is all it took to kill me or wear out my heart, I guess what will be, will be..." something to that effect, and it would have the result of calming me down sooner or later because I'd give up on all of it - let it all go - the fear of imminent death and what was happening to my body - and just accepted that whatever happened, happened.

    Does any of that make sense? It's kind of hard to describe but it worked wonders for me. I find that our thought patterns are important and realizing one is in the midst of a thought pattern that is bad is a good time to halt it and change it to another one. A good one, or at least a "disarming" one. Not easy, I know. But it helps.
     
  14. j.

    j. Guest

    I think just holding one's breath purposefully might also help.
     
  15. OP
    mandance

    mandance Member

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    Thanks for the responses. I totally know what you mean about the panic attacks. I can usually stop them before they get out of control as well. To be honest, this is the worst I have felt in my entire life. Completely hopeless and futureless. I dont even know how to describe it but I dont even feel like a person anymore. Just a shell yet im going through tons of heart papitations and chest pain, weakness, loss of coordination, I cant eat or think, im dizzy all the time. I feel like im going to die or that this will be somewhat permanent, I hate google also because it just shows me stories of peoples lives ruined from anti depressants who describe the same thing and were never normal again.

    Even my shrink agrees I should be off these things, but at this rate I dont know how other people didnt kill themselves...and sadly many have. I am grateful for the support here. I dont really have any family or support so I suffer a lone mostly. I feel my life slipping away and the person I know I am slipping away, that funny goofy guy that loved to have a good time, now just plagued by physical symptoms and complete apathy. My relationships are all falling apart because of it and it kills me, my friends are starting to settle down and get married and stuff and my girlfriend has had about enough of my problems. I feel so bad for her. And my mom who put me on these drugs as a kid, is in complete denial and a complete b**** to me and refuses to accept anything is wrong with these drugs.

    Sorry for the venting, im trying my best to follow peat and do everything else I can but it seems to harder I try, the worse off I end up. I will try to keep hanging in there, I enjoy hearing other peoples stories. And Peata, im glad you are at least able to get on with life now and enjoy it and be mroe like yourself.
    I wouldnt wish this on anyone ever.
     
  16. Peata

    Peata Member

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    From what I understand, you are withdrawing from the medication. Withdrawal causes a sh--storm of extreme upheaval in your system. Therefore, everything you are thinking/feeling and experiencing right now is "normal".

    I am glad you are under the care of a doctor. Going off these drugs even carefully, tapering a little at a time, is still one of the biggest mental and physical challenges I can think of. I went through it multiple times because I went back on multiple times (sometimes after years of being off them) when I could find no relief for my anxiety. Usually it was after some huge ordeal I went through that put me into an anxiety tail-spin I couldn't pull out of. Desperation. Each time I went off, I had the withdrawal symptoms you describe. The pain, sweats and brain zaps, hot then cold, dizzy, depressed, panicked, etc. etc. I timed the worst part of my last couple withdrawals for when I was off work/between jobs. Oh, and I also read some accounts of people not getting over it and feared I would be one of them. Then I gave up worrying about it and decided to just concentrate on getting through each day. Each day of suffering meant I was another day closer to relief, though relief seemed so so far away. Dark times, withdrawal is. These drugs are powerful sh--. Eventually, I just stopped worrying about how long it would take to completely feel normal again - just assumed it might take months. However long it takes, it takes. I kept taking care of myself, distracting myself as much as I was able, and eventually it was over. I still have my anxiety to deal with, same as before the meds, but I was on the other side of withdrawal and that felt great.
     
  17. honeybee

    honeybee Member

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    Mandance-Is it helping you -trying to follow Peat and incorporate his ideas into your lifestyle while you are having so many changes to deal with?
     
  18. HDD

    HDD Member

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    Could it be said that anxiety/panic/depression begins from a physiological need but is further complicated by life experiences? and medications? If thyroid is the underlying problem, and is treated, then I would tend to believe that all could be healed. Not overnight but with time.

    My son is struggling on antidepressants currently and has expressed a desire not to continue them but feels he needs them. He just went through a crisis and his medicine was changed. I do not feel that the medicine is the answer, but I cannot express that unless he comes to that conclusion himself. I am suspecting that his struggles began as a thyroid problem in his teens and will continue until underlying problem is dealt with.
     
  19. j.

    j. Guest

    What about treating the thyroid with thyroid supplements, and once its function improves, in a few months, maybe stopping medications gradually will be easier.
     
  20. OP
    mandance

    mandance Member

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    Peata, your strength inspires me..is your anxiety better or worse now, from when you used to be on pills? I totally know what you mean about one day at a time. Its hard but im trying. The mind tends to make things worse with its worrying, and that is often the hard part. Its when I lay down to rest at night when the suffering seems to be at its worst because you just keep thinking you will suffer forever until you die.

    And yeah, the horror stories about people not recovering is not good, but im trying to avoid using google for anything. I have to believe its possible to be healthy again without medications like these.

    Are you able to live a somewhat normal life now and do stuff and make plans etc? That is probably the worst part about all this. Its summer and I so badly want to go do fun things but I just cant do anything like this and it kills me. Even leaving to go get food or something, its an epic challenge....it seems like any minor stress is unbearable. But I guess its just the process. I am determined to do this....I dont want to spend the rest of my life on these pills. I just hope its not too late after using them for 15 years since a kid, I sometimes wonder if my mind can handle reality anymore without being numbed to it with drugs which makes me wonder if that is why I can no longer handle anything, any inconvenience or stress etc.

    Hopefully I can be better by October..im supposed to go Italy, but the thought of that like this sounds terrible.


    As for the question about Peat eating. Im not sure if its helping me or not. I am no where near getting the right amount of nutrition right now as I dont have much will to eat. I sip milk and Oj with gelatin to get me through the day, and eat melons or oranges although I could go for some ice cream, that always lifts my spirits :)

    I am not going to address any thyroid problem yet. But I will take prenenolone to see if it helps. Once I start feeling a bit better and get an appetite and diet dialed back in. Then I might start supping with cynoplus, but I dont think I want mess with that right now especially since I have had a bad reaction to straight t3 before.

    And as for your son, I am very biased but I would get him off of those drugs and try to find an alternative but thats just me. My mom, teachers and doctors all convinced me as a kid I needed pills, but it was all a lie. The problem wasnt with me, it was with them. Not every kid is the same. I was put on drugs because I was hyper and liekd to do art more than school work. Why they didnt just put me in an art school where I would have thrived? I have no idea....yet controlling me through drugs seemed appropriate.

    Its something that is hard for me to accept, and my mom denies she ever did any wrong. I know she had good intentions, but the fact that she doesnt own up to it bothers me but thats my own problem now and something I have to deal with. I just think if your son has some issues, maybe he should deal with them in therapy instead. I always found therapy to be more effective than drugs imo.
     
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