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Are There Any Good Blood Pressure Drugs Or Less Bad Ones?

Discussion in 'Supplements, Pharmaceutical Drugs' started by ecstatichamster, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    If I”m not mistaken Dr. Peat has spoken of one class of hypertension drugs as okay or sometimes helpful. ACE inhibitors perhaps?

    There are beta blockers, calcium channel blockers, ACE inhibitors, ARBs...

    Beta blockers have been around the longest.

    Are there any good ones, bad ones, particularly bad ones?
     
  2. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Maybe this is what he meant?

    "Even before aldosterone was identified, progesterone’s role in regulating the salts, water, and energy metabolism was known, and after the functions of aldosterone were identified, progesterone was found to protect against its harmful effects, as it protects against an excess of cortisol, estrogen, or the androgens. New anti-aldosterone drugs are available that are effective for treating hypertension and heart failure, and their similarity to progesterone is recognized.”

    Ray Peat, PhD on High Blood Pressure – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)
     
  3. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    thank you, that could be it. What class of drugs was he referring to?
     
  4. redsun

    redsun Member

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    Antimineralocorticoids or aldosterone receptor antagonists and seem to be diuretics (no surprise).
     
  5. aguineapig

    aguineapig Member

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    I use beta blockers for anxiety at times, very useful. I think that Atenolol is preferable to Propranolol. Propranolol can lower T3 when taken chronically, has uncertain effects long term due to it's antagonism at 5-HT1 (negative feedback receptor--it could raise serotonin in the long run possibly, or just sensitize that receptor which would be less bad?), and has a greater propensity towards impacting sleep (insomnia/vivid dreams). Atenolol has virtually no 5-HT affinity, has less impact on sleep, and significantly less impact on thyroid functioning. It also works just as well for my anxiety. There are some concerns about type 2 diabetes with atenolol but I am not super familiar with that.
     
  6. lampofred

    lampofred Member

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    I thought he said high blood pressure was due to perceived inadequate blood volume and that BP drugs won't fix the root problem. I think salt functions as a beta-blocker and also raises blood volume. I think T4 also lowers blood pressure (works alongside sugar and calcium to lower FFA and quiet the pituitary).
     
  7. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Depends on the condition causing the blood pressure to be high.

    I personally don't think alerting the body's adaptations is the best way to go. Interfering with the RAS (renin-angiotensin system) is a very short-term approach, but leads to long term consequences. When high blood pressure is needed to supply nutrients and remove metabolic wastes adequately, lowering blood pressure by intervention makes the organism weaker in the long run.

    Too much drilling down into the body's processes invites more intervention that is the tendency of modern medicine.

    As @lampofred alludes to what Ray Peat has said, blood volume is important. Peat has talked about salt and albumin. Put what he's said together, and I can deduce that salt alone doesn't help if the albumin stores in the blood isn't enough. If kidneys aren't producing enough albumin or too much albumin is being expended, then those issues have to be addressed. If albumin stores are enough, and salt isn't being restricted in the diet, blood pressure should go back to being normal.

    Assuming arteries are not blocked by excessive plaque. If so, plaque has to be slowly removed. Proteolytic enzymes can help, as well as cyclodextrines which allows macrophages to eat up oxidized LDL. But caution is needed, as the blood should flow well, otherwise this will invite thrombosis or blockage of arteries from debris falling off from plaque. And this is assuming that the plaque being lysed isn't releasing into the bloodstream bacteria which hitherto has been relatively dormant. The amount of bacteria being released from the vast network of blood vessels could produce stress of a level that could overwhelm.

    So, in short, no best blood pressure medication when a silver bullet is what you're looking for.
     
  8. yerrag

    yerrag Member

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    Vitamin K, or is it K2, also helps when the cause is just a lack of coenzyme Q10 and its analogues. That would cause the blood vessel to be lose its elasticity and that makes it brittle, as I understand it? People are deathly afraid of having high blood pressure because it conjures up images of blood vessels exploding. But I've had very high blood pressure for a long time, going as high as 240/140, and I don't experience even a headache. Perhaps I'm not short of CoQ10 or vitamin K, or vitamin K2. I've never had a nosebleed.

    I guess I'm allowing my body to determine the level of blood pressure I need to keep me together for the long haul, given my condition. If I were to use drugs that lower my blood pressure, I could begin to experience headaches, as there would be less nutrients going to my brain. But that's the brain, which is vital. But the body also knows I can survive with less hair, and with less erectile ability, so I don't have as lush a hair as before, nor is my virility as strong as I'd like it.

    But my experience is not everyone's, and probably mine is mine alone, just because I had decided long ago not to listen to my doctors. Otherwise, I'd play it safe and take bp drugs. I'd be told it's only temporary while I'm finding the cause. It wasn't until 15+ years later that I found the cause, and I'm thankful I didn't follow the doctor's advice. I doubt I would be in better shape taking bp medications.
     
  9. Malris

    Malris Member

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    Hey, Hamster. Why do you ask? I hope you're doing ok.

    I had high blood pressure for a while, even posted about it on here. It was up around 135/90 for a while.

    One morning, I picked up the wrong bottle. I was megadosing vitamin D to get my blood levels up to optimal. 10 drops of 4,000 iu a day. But I picked up my vitamin A instead, and took a dose of 150,000 iu of A instead (15,000 iu per drop)!

    Well, I was regularly taking my blood pressure. It dropped for the next few days, right down to 120/80. It was the darnedest thing. It took me a few days to connect the vitamin A megadose and the blood pressure, but I figured it out. I tested it - any time I wanted, I could lower my BP down to 120/80 by just taking a bunch of A. It was pretty amazing.

    Because I was really worried about my BP, though, I started dosing like that every day. My blood pressure stayed down for a while, but then slowly started ramping up. It didn't stop at 135/90, either. It went up to 150/100, or even a touch higher than that, and stayed there. For months.

    Then I read the big thread about Genereux and vitamin A toxicity that I think you were active on. I figured, well, maybe the megadoses were causing my body to clear all the A out of my system. But once I went to megadosing every day, my body couldn't clear it out any more? Maybe my BP would go down if I spent a few weeks vitamin A free? So I tried that. Nothing else had worked (calcium, vitamin K, added salt, etc. had done nothing for my BP.) After about 2 months, my BP had gone down to about 120/80 - 125/82, give or take. Sometimes lower than 120/80, but most of the time right around 123/81. I started eating vitamin A normally again after that two months, lots of skim milk, cheese, tomatoes, etc.

    It's better if I exercise a bit more (walking & weightlifting, no cardio) but it's generally never higher than 127/83 or so, and always goes back down if it ever gets that high. It's been over a year for me, and I've actually stopped worrying about it. I feel like this was a major accomplishment!

    Everybody's in a different place. But for me, who had high blood pressure and couldn't get it to go down with normal Peating (which it really should have done, I was getting enough calcium, vitamin K, and salt!) it's was a pretty easy test for me to take a large (I'm ~110 kg, so about 1,350 iu/kg) dose of vitamin A and see if my blood pressure dropped to normal. Then it was a matter of about 8 weeks of near vitamin A elimination (I had some restaurant meals that undoubtedly had lots of A...just tried to do my best!) took care of it for me.

    Anyway, like I said - hope you're ok and doing great, Ecstatichamster. :)
     
  10. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    I’ve upped my vitamin K2 in the last week for other reasons to about 10 mg per day and my blood pressure went down yet again from 120/80 to 106/71. It was running 135/90 in 2018 when I was still slightly overweight and more out of shape.
     
  11. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    Thank you. I'm doing great. I am asking for family members who are on various drugs.

    I am seeking to learn about them.
     
  12. Mito

    Mito Member

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    ”Ray has written that the major factor determining blood pressure is calcium homeostasis. He has also frequently said that 15mg of vitamin K2 (MK-4) should be able to normalize the blood pressure in about a week. So, it is natural that other agents participating in the proper metabolism of calcium may also have beneficial effects on blood pressure. It looks like vitamin D is another such factor, and according to the researchers is as effective as pharma drugs in lowering blood pressure. The highest dose was 4,000 IU per day for 3-6 months, which is not that high. The official recommendations are 1,000 IU for every 25lbs of body weight.”
    Vitamin D "as Good As Drugs" In Lowering Blood Pressure
     
  13. Blossom

    Blossom Moderator

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    Thank you for the informative quote.
     
  14. OP
    ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    do you know how:
    ACE inhibitors
    ARBs
    calcium channel blockers
    work?

    And have you experimented with clonidine? There are some benefits to this drug and it also lowers blood pressure
     
  15. Tarmander

    Tarmander Member

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    Nattokinase is a great alternative to ACE inhibitors as it can act in similar ways
     
  16. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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  17. nad

    nad Member

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    in this study they treating salt and high fructose overuse- induced high blood pressure .
    should I suspect my HBP is BC too much OJ plus some cola?
    I remember Dr. Peat called beta- blockers the ''safest''
     
  18. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    In the rat studies they use unrealistic amounts of fructose to induce insulin resistance and hypertension. There some 60% of the energy comes from fructose alone, while sucrose (this is what you find in foods) is half fructose, half glucose. And even in those rat studies the effect on blood pressure wears off after a few month.

    I looked for human studies and found the meta-analysis linked below. (I only skimmed through it.)

    They say that data from animal studies "are inconsistent and exhibit considerable interspecies variability". Human studies are inconsistent, too. They seem to suggest that only the very high fructose intakes have shown effect on blood pressure and they write that "there is a clear need for larger and longer trials [...] to confirm whether “real-world” fructose exposure contributes to the burden of hypertension and by association vascular and renal disease."

    Effect of Fructose on Blood Pressure; A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Controlled Feeding Trials
     
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