Melatonin Increase PDH Complex

[Experienced]

Thanks!

 

[Jessie]

Why not use a safer PDH agonist like magnesium or thiamine?

I'm sure melatonin has some beneficial properties to it, but the data is unclear on it. I've even seen reports that it shrinks male sex organs. Additionally, it's unclear if there's a negative feedback loop with melatonin and serotonin. If taking melatonin is going to increase my serotonin, no thanks.

 

[TheBeard]

I've even seen reports that it shrinks male sex organs.

No, you've seen reports that it shrinks sex organs in birds.
No such results have been reported in humans as a result of a study.

 

[Jessie]

@TheBeard Maybe, it's been a year or so since I've seen that paper, I can't recall if it was talking about humans or animals. Either way, not a good sign.

 

[TheBeard]

@TheBeardI can't recall if it was talking about humans or animals.

It was about birds. That study is very famous when you research melatonin a lot like I did.
Not one single melatonin study mentions that for humans.
Doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but don't invoque a human study.

 

[Ras]

It was about birds. That study is very famous when you research melatonin a lot like I did.
Not one single melatonin study mentions that for humans.
Doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, but don't invoque a human study.

I agree.

I've read at least 150 studies on melatonin, many of them done in humans and focused on endocrine effects, and all of them concluded that it seems to have no effect or a positive effect in human males. Animal studies on the endocrine effects of melatonin in males cannot be applied to humans, because the endocrine system of animals is based around time and season, whereas the endocrine system of human males is not.

 

[Ras]

@Ras Interesting experiment, what do you hope to achieve?, also long term how will effect sleep if you stop supplementing??

The 12 grams had no long term effect on my sleep.

I don't have an exact goal in mind. I'm entirely persuaded by the more than 150 studies I've read that melatonin has unique, healthful properties and no negative side effects in any human in any dose. Its LD-50 is enormous. From what I've read, it seems likely that melatonin can restore the body's endogenous antioxidant systems and lower systemic inflammation. It seems to be a very youth-promoting substance. Among other things, I want to see if it will affect my hair growth.

Its solubility sucks, except in DMSO (30 mg/mL). Its oral bioavailability in adult humans is very poor and dose dependent, ranging from 3% to 15%. Its half-life in adult humans is equally bad, being from 30 to 45 minutes, hence the hourly dosing. However, it does alter the intestinal microbiome in beneficial ways, so the poor oral bioavailability isn't all bad.

I became intrigued by melatonin when I heard about Jeff Bowles's book on it. Then I found numerous studies done by a team in Italy which showed melatonin to be a life-saving substance for neonates with RDS and sepsis.

The only way to gain true knowledge of your body is to experiment. So I'm experimenting.

 

[Ras]

http://wendyblount.com/handouts-drugs/DrugHandout-Melatonin.pdf

Wow, I had no idea.

Consumer Lab testing is probably okay. According to these 2015 results, many products are acceptable.

 

[TheBeard]

I agree.

I've read at least 150 studies on melatonin, many of them done in humans and focused on endocrine effects, and all of them concluded that it seems to have no effect or a positive effect in human males. Animal studies on the endocrine effects of melatonin in males cannot be applied to humans, because the endocrine system of animals is based around time and season, whereas the endocrine system of human males is not.

I do not completely agree with "only positives in humans". It made me quite depressed and I lost my jolt and sense of humour on it.
I only realised this after I quit.

Quite a few reports of depression from it on Reddit.

 

[Tarmander]

The 12 grams had no long term effect on my sleep.

I don't have an exact goal in mind. I'm entirely persuaded by the more than 150 studies I've read that melatonin has unique, healthful properties and no negative side effects in any human in any dose. Its LD-50 is enormous. From what I've read, it seems likely that melatonin can restore the body's endogenous antioxidant systems and lower systemic inflammation. It seems to be a very youth-promoting substance. Among other things, I want to see if it will affect my hair growth.

Its solubility sucks, except in DMSO (30 mg/mL). Its oral bioavailability in adult humans is very poor and dose dependent, ranging from 3% to 15%. Its half-life in adult humans is equally bad, being from 30 to 45 minutes, hence the hourly dosing. However, it does alter the intestinal microbiome in beneficial ways, so the poor oral bioavailability isn't all bad.

I became intrigued by melatonin when I heard about Jeff Bowles's book on it. Then I found numerous studies done by a team in Italy which showed melatonin to be a life-saving substance for neonates with RDS and sepsis.

The only way to gain true knowledge of your body is to experiment. So I'm experimenting.

that is a ton of melatonin. Awesome experiment. Keep up updated

 

[LucyL]

Why not use a safer PDH agonist like magnesium or thiamine?

I'm sure melatonin has some beneficial properties to it, but the data is unclear on it. I've even seen reports that it shrinks male sex organs. Additionally, it's unclear if there's a negative feedback loop with melatonin and serotonin. If taking melatonin is going to increase my serotonin, no thanks.

I found a while ago if I took more than 5mg of melatonin, I would get a headache. After stopping it for several months, I took 1 3mg dose before bedtime, and woke up at 3 am with a nightmare, and hot flashes. I hadn't had a nightmare (aggressive, adrenalin pumping) in a very long time. Usually if I wake up the middle of the night, I don't remember the dream or it was mild, pleasant, and I am calm while awake (as opposed to worried about everything). Serotonin involvement is reasonable.

 

[Hgreen56]

you all know its increase serotonin right?

 

[skycop00]

you all know its increase serotonin right?

A friend that performs autopsies advises that the pineal in most 50+ year olds is already calcified. I would think this is tissue/gland dependent. Effects of pinealectomy and melatonin treatments on serotonin uptake and release from synaptosomes of rat hypothalamic regions - PubMed

 

[Ras]

you all know its increase serotonin right?

I'd like the see the data which corroborates that statement.

 

[Hgreen56]

I'd like the see the data which corroborates that statement.

Melatonin Elevates Brain Serotonin


Also ray peat said:

Many health food stores are now selling melatonin, to induce sleep and "prevent cancer." They have taken some information out of context, and don't realize how dangerous melatonin is. It makes the brain sluggish, causes the sex organs to shrink, and damages immunity by shrinking the thymus gland.

https://www.scribd.com/document/116244534/Ray-Peat-Using-Sunlight-to-Sustain-Life

Enjoy you melatonin.

 

[Ras]

Melatonin Elevates Brain Serotonin

(Some) Humans are not rodents. But if you want to science that way:

Rejuvenation of degenerative thymus by oral melatonin administration and the antagonistic action of melatonin against hydroxyl radical-induced apoptosis of cultured thymocytes in mice

 

[jmojo]

My favorite writeup on melatonin is this well written and researched article: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted To Know

I limit my melatonin usage to 300mcg time released (from Life Extension) and it puts me to sleep and makes me sleep harder than taking much higher amounts. For me, I notice some unfavorable side effects after taking it for a while (e.g. more than a week), such as sluggishness, mood changes, increased susceptibility to stress.

 

[Hgreen56]

(Some) Humans are not rodents. But if you want to science that way:

Rejuvenation of degenerative thymus by oral melatonin administration and the antagonistic action of melatonin against hydroxyl radical-induced apoptosis of cultured thymocytes in mice

jeezz.. 99% of Peat ideas is bases on animal studys and you gonna cry on this one...
its just a warning but if you want to be cocky about it, Go ahead, is your health, no mine. like i said, Enjoy you melatonin.

 

[Ras]

jeezz.. 99% of Peat ideas is bases on animal studys and you gonna cry on this one...
its just a warning but if you want to be cocky about it, Go ahead, is your health, no mine. like i said, Enjoy you melatonin.

Pointing out that human beings are not rodents and referencing a study which shows melatonin rejuvenating thymus tissue are crying?

 

[cedric]

Interesting article on melatonin from dr Mercola-available 48 h. You can also download transcript with prof.R.Reiter

What You Need to Know About Melatonin

I interviewed Russel Reiter, Ph.D., a world-class expert on melatonin, about its role in the body and how optimizing it can promote better health.

articles.mercola.com