Your Thoughts On An Ideal School Environment

[DaveFoster]

Schooling probably had the greatest negative impact on my life.

I wasn't ready for a forced social environment, so it made me even more anti-social. Depression, anxiety, and negative self-talk quickly followed.

j. said it well.

 

[lindsay]

One thing I think is very important for children is exposure to animals - they teach empathy, responsibility, curiosity, are naturally stress relieving and therapeutic - I think if all schools included some sort of animal care, agriculture or therapy, it would be really beneficial.

 

[5magicbeans]

"The mind can know nothing save what it can produce in the form of an answer to a question put to the mind by itself."

"Education is the Science of Relations; that is, that a child has natural relations with a vast number of things and thoughts..."

 

[InChristAlone]

Look into Ivan Illich's "Deschooling Society". Ray Peat's article references it.

"Education can either activate or suppress mental energy. If it is mainly obedience training, it suppresses energy. If it creates social dislocations, it disturbs mental and emotional energy." Intelligence and metabolism

I am currently unschooling my 2 boys. That doesn't mean they get to do whatever they want, I think of it more like giving them all the tools they need to excel in all the things that interest them.

That being said a school that Ray Peat would set up I would for sure let my kids attend!

 

[NathanK]

Interesting thread. I looked up a Sudbury school here in Austin. Here's there resource page: Resources - Clearview Sudbury School | Clearview Sudbury School
And an interesting audio from it: The Purposes of Play: Insights from Evolutionary Psychology - Clearview Sudbury School | Clearview Sudbury School

Im not sure if I feel comfortable with what I feel is a lack of base as @celica1984 mentioned. I think creativity and learning responsibility is great, but also believe some open structure and positive stress to challenge growth is also important.

Upon looking at the local Waldorf school in Austin it looks VERY appealing: Austin Waldorf School. Unfortunately, aside from the campus (like the Sudbury school) being in a remote corner of town, the 15 grand price tag is a bit steep.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I am currently unschooling my 2 boys

You will never regret this Janelle....BRAVO!!! I guess I'm biased...

I unschooled my two boys and they turned out awesome...really. I'm not boasting here. They are far smarter, better adjusted and secure than most of their public school peers. Both already own their own homes (both on acreage) and they're only 23 and 25 years old. They love their work and are HAPPY hard-working fine young men.

I'm amazed by this....especially given that I went through a divorce when they were 7 and 9 years old. You'd think that would have messed them up for sure.

Their diet wasn't ideal either, as a single parent we were dirt poor and lived on Gleaners, so we ate whatever we could get.

Neither their father nor myself are particularly bright, so this outcome certainly isn't genetic.

I think it has everything to do with the fact that they were allowed to pursue their own interests at a much deeper level than most kids going through the public system. I provided a rich and supportive environment to the best of my ability. Kids thrive on that.

I have two aunts that both unschooled their children too. All five of their kids turned out to be deeply creative, incredibly intelligent, happy, peaceful young adults.

 

[InChristAlone]

You will never regret this Janelle....BRAVO!!! I guess I'm biased...

I unschooled my two boys and they turned out awesome...really. .

This is really great to hear! I don't know very many people that are doing it this way so its always encouraging to hear of the outcomes! I always get grilled about what curriculum I am using to teach and things like that, so it can be uncharted territory among friends and family, that I don't even try explaining the way we are doing things. Just out of curiousity at what age did they learn to read? Did you use any tools to get them to read? My 7 yr old shows no signs of wanting to read yet. But he plays minecraft like an expert!

 

[tara]

However, not all children have parents that really care about their children to try to develop them in any sort of specific way.

Not all children have parents with time, however much they care.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

This is really great to hear! I don't know very many people that are doing it this way so its always encouraging to hear of the outcomes! I always get grilled about what curriculum I am using to teach and things like that, so it can be uncharted territory among friends and family, that I don't even try explaining the way we are doing things. Just out of curiousity at what age did they learn to read? Did you use any tools to get them to read? My 7 yr old shows no signs of wanting to read yet. But he plays minecraft like an expert!

I feel your pain, I had a rough go with my father's side of the family (they were very critical/disapproving). Luckily I had the two aunts on my mother's side of the family that paved the way for me, so my mother already "approved" as she had seen the outcome.

My oldest learned to read very quickly. He told me he wanted to learn and so we bought a book called Teach Your Child to Read In 100 Easy Lessons, we made it to lesson 20 and he was done. He basically taught himself everything, it was so easy I was in shock. He was six at the time.


HOWEVER, my youngest son was the complete opposite. He showed NO interest whatsoever at the age of 7, I was kinda freaking out. At the age of 8 still nothing.

By the time he was 9 he still wasn't reading and my father insisted that I take him in for testing. I was angry and hurt by my father's continual criticism, but I relented. I took him in to see the district specialists and an Ear Nose Throat doc and had a bunch of testing done. They used cards/pictures and lots of questioning and other psychological stuff to assess him, along with all the usual poking and prodding, hearing tests etc. The outcome was that his comprehension was several years ABOVE other children his age.

I was kinda blown away and asked how that could be? The district gal said that despite the fact that he wasn't reading and was dyslexic with a mild speech impediment that he was in no way impaired and there was nothing they would/could do...said he would outgrow it. Doc said the same thing, no hearing loss, no physical anomalies. Said he would outgrow the speech thing. He did.

He was fully 10 years old by the time he was ready to sit down and "learn", but only because he wanted to read technical manuals for rebuilding engines. I dusted off the same book I had used with my older boy and the same thing happened, we never made it through the entire book and he was off and running. He surpassed all of the other children his age in less than a year. I know this because we joined a homeschool group in order for my boys to get together with other homeschoolers and take music classes and use lab equipment for science etc.

It was then that I realized that my kids were light years ahead of other traditionally homeschooled children. All because I let them follow their own delights...they never learned to hate learning. Everything is a thrill and new discovery. They were never bored.

My youngest wanted to learn all about motorcycles so he asked if he could join the local 4-H group. We went to the first meeting where they discussed the scope and sequence of the dirt bike program. The leader asked if everyone had dirt bikes, we didn't own one and so he said we could share a bike and gave us a list of safety equipment to get (helmet/chest protector/boots etc.). My son, who was eight or nine years old at the time (and small for his age), spoke up and said he was gonna BUILD his own bike. Of course everybody laughed at him, they thought he was kidding.

Afterwards, when we were walking back to the car he said he didn't want to go back to any more meetings, that it wasn't what he thought it would be. The very next day he went about gathering parts and pieces. He bought stuff off eBay, Craigslist and cheap tools at yard sales....once in a while he would give me a list of stuff to order from Cycle Barn, a local bike shop. And guess what??? That boy built himself a Suzuki 80 DS80 from the ground up. He bought a jumble of used parts and pieces and built the entire thing by himself.

I'm telling you this story because there is simply NO WAY that I could have "taught" that. I had NO idea what he was doing out in the garage. We lived in the city at the time, but he taught himself to ride his bike in a vacant field just down the street. I don't know how to ride a motorcycle...or fix an engine.....kids do great if you just let them follow their hearts. He went on to sign up for a skills program at a local vocational/technical college because he wanted to learn machining. He won the State competition as a first year student, and placed 16 at the National level competing against kids that were much much older who had had years of machining classes. He received a scholarship (and a GIANT tool chest) for his accomplishment, truly lightyears ahead of his public school counterparts.

Provide a rich environment of love and support. You really don't need curriculum. The library is free. Camping is cheap. Museums have free days. The internet is an awesome resource. My oldest wanted to learn calculus. I don't know calculus and could never teach it as I'm just not smart enough, but we found an online course provided through the State and he enrolled in that. He also decided that wanted an official high school diploma and so he had to meet with certificated teachers in order to be assessed/tested. He passed everything with flying colors and they issued him a 4.0 GPA and a diploma.

I could go on and on....absolutely the best years EVER. Unschooling. Nurturing their interests makes for fine human beings.

 

[Luann]

You will never regret this Janelle....BRAVO!!! I guess I'm biased...

I unschooled my two boys and they turned out awesome...really. I'm not boasting here. They are far smarter, better adjusted and secure than most of their public school peers. Both already own their own homes (both on acreage) and they're only 23 and 25 years old. They love their work and are HAPPY hard-working fine young men.

I'm amazed by this....especially given that I went through a divorce when they were 7 and 9 years old. You'd think that would have messed them up for sure.

Their diet wasn't ideal either, as a single parent we were dirt poor and lived on Gleaners, so we ate whatever we could get.

Neither their father nor myself are particularly bright, so this outcome certainly isn't genetic.

I think it has everything to do with the fact that they were allowed to pursue their own interests at a much deeper level than most kids going through the public system. I provided a rich and supportive environment to the best of my ability. Kids thrive on that.

I have two aunts that both unschooled their children too. All five of their kids turned out to be deeply creative, incredibly intelligent, happy, peaceful young adults.

If you would, message me with some of the details of what you did with your children (or post here). I'm really interested in trying to find a new / unique path toward a life that has lots of meaning vs. what most other people do.

I do see in your second post that you used love & care, library books, online stuff, co-ops. Feel free to share how your kids learned to get along with others, if they played sports, stuff like that. I really admire you.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

Hi Liubo...my kids learned to get along with others because we were out interacting in the world nearly everyday. And yeah, I got questioned a lot, mostly people asking if it was a school holiday or shouldn't they be in school??? Stuff like that.

We also joined a homeschool group where a bunch of other homeschooled kids would get together and take band classes and go on field trips, you get group discounts this way and more social interaction. We went on a LOT of camping trips, which was nice for me as a single mom cuz I'm not sure I would have been as adventurous all by myself, at first.

We did most of our camping during the summer, so the kids were learning year round (aren't we always learning?). We'd plan our trips during the regular school year while we learned/built/did stuff at home and then we'd celebrate the "End of the School Year" with a camping trip. But since we weren't really on a school schedule it just became a way of life.

As I became more confident and my kids got older we branched out, visiting surrounding states. We spent the time traveling in the car by listening to tapes borrowed from the library, reading books, creating nature journals etc. We stopped to study the local flora/fauna and unique geological formations and of course geography.

I don't know where you live, but I think many states have local museums, State parks and National Parks are excellent!! Examples of camping trips took:

• Grand Coulee Dam to study hydroelectric power
• A trip to the Goldendale Observatory to celebrate our study of the solar system.
• A trip to the Tillamook factory in Oregon to see how cheese is made.
• We visited lots of local farms.
• Several Zoos and Aviation Museums.
• Many art museums have Free Days. We have lots of cultural museums in WA too. (Native American stuff), slept in teepees in Yakima.
• Old military Forts are great for history, there's tons of them!
• We got a discount to become members of The Pacific Science Center, they're always doing fun hands on science programs. IMAX theatre is there.
• A trip to Fort Clatsop when we were reading about Lewis & Clark.
• We drove to California and went to see some cool places there: Golden Gate, Griffith Observatory, Joshua Tree National Park, Redwood Forest/Giant Sequoias
• The Grand Canyon, Petrified Forest, Hoover Dam and Mt. Rushmore
• I drove them to Yellowstone in the winter (that was kinda dodgy/treacherous traveling) and we stayed at the lodge there for Christmas, that was an extra special trip, no gifts. Just memories. We witnessed a pack of wolves take down an elk, a truly bloody gruesome awesome sight to behold with one's own eyes while shivering in the snow......Yellowstone blanketed in winter snow is utterly breathtaking. Not sure I'd drive those roads again the winter tho.
• Our final trip together to celebrate "Graduation" was a trip of their choice, they chose The Bahamas because they wanted see azure water and white sand beaches. This was our first time ever to go snorkeling and we discovered our love for tropical fish/coral reefs and now we're addicted. The boys also swim with sting rays and sharks, I stayed in the boat.

Coastal beaches and the Puget Sound are rich for studying marine life. The Olympic Peninsula is an extraordinary place to stomp around. I still marvel at the beauty. We caught tadpoles and watched them change into frogs every single year.....just being OUTSIDE instead of sitting in a classroom is a far superior education, IMO. We raised butterflies, chicks, ducklings, kittens...I'm sure I'm forgetting something. We caught snakes, salamanders, one opossum and even a bat. (We built him bat house). It's all educational.

We played something I like to refer to as The Game, where we would see how cheaply we could live on a daily basis in order to save up for our camping trips. You would be amazed at how much $$$ you can save if you try. My kids learned to be very frugal/thrifty. All clothes were second-hand. We didn't have television. We didn't buy a lot of "useless" stuff. It forces creativity.

I'd ask them each time they were tempted with a toy or something "frivolous", they almost always chose to defer immediate gratification. Things we did spend money on were tools (always second-hand) and chemicals for experiments (I still have scorch marks on the patio, lol) and seeds for growing a garden. We did a lot of salvaging/dumpster diving/repurposing.

My youngest wanted to play sports, our local school district welcomed him, no problem. He did wrestling and played football. They both were allowed to use the weights in the gym at the high school.

You don't need a curriculum. Just go outside. Do stuff. Pursue that which fascinates you.

An interesting and unintended consequence of our unusual lifestyle has been that even though my kids are grown and have been out on their own for four years, we still vacation together....which is kinda weird if ya think about it. We've done this three times now and the clan is growing! We agree on a spot, plan, scrimp & save. Last time we rented a house in Hawaii (there were 8 of us), so it's really affordable. We share grocery shopping and meal prep. Everybody pays their own way and it's an enormous amount of FUN.

 

[Luann]

@Bigpeatowski

Have had to read your post in bits and pieces as I found time, BUT, while I will have more to say and ask you about it at some point, just want to say thanks for the info. You guys make it sound so fun. I do wanna try it if / when I have kids and then I'm sure I'll learn as I go and will have more to ask you if we're still in touch. You're the best.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

You're quite welcome Liubo....Un-schooling IS fun!!!

My only regret is that I wasn't as healthy as I could have been during those years. I've learned a lot about nutrition and hypothyroidism in particular since then. If you're going to have kids someday start building deep nutrition into your body now....it's never too soon to start.

 

[catan]

@thebigpeatowski, your posts are so inspiring. How much time did you spend with your boys growing up? I'm a single parent as well. I have 2 girls and am trying to decide what to do with their education. My eldest has been in a Waldorf preschool for a couple years and she loves it. Not many options where we are now. School is required by law and all are mainstream schools. We might move next year when my kids are 6 and 2 to somewhere with more flexibility. I've always been fascinated with unschooling but have doubts about my ability.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I've always been fascinated with unschooling but have doubts about my ability.

Hi amuck...Ha ha, my damn autocorrect changed your name.

Waldorf is great if you can afford it.

You don't need any "ability" to unschool beyond a deep abiding respect, love and admiration for your children...and a heaping dose of trust.

Regarding divorce/single parenthood, while certainly not ideal, my opinion is that kids are enormously resilient. They do just fine...and in fact I think mine were better off for not bearing full witness to an enormously destructive and dysfunctional marriage.

Some people think kids are "blank slates", but I disagree. They come into this world with their own personalities/talents and desires. They're so incredibly eager to learn, experiment and explore...you get to facilitate their process of self discovery. It's an awe inspiring thing to watch and I learned a ton myself along the way.

I have a step-sister whose children are younger than mine. She is a single mom too, but she is heavily invested in her career and she makes a TON of money (Microsoft). Her kids are in an excellent private school. She told me that their tuition cost more than her mortgage! I was shocked as she lives in a giant house on acreage in an exclusive equestrian (gated) neighborhood.

I was/am self employed and I made some major financial sacrifices in order to be with my kids full time. There was a (very) brief moment when I wished I could afford private schooling too, but now I wouldn't change it for anything. You just cannot put a price on the memories we made together.

They grow up VERY fast and once they're grown you don't get another opportunity to have that time back. They're little only once, no regrets.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Don't keep age groups separated.

 

[Newbophyte]

Something like this would be ideal, IMO:
Escoliña De Vilar

 

[catan]

Some people think kids are "blank slates", but I disagree. They come into this world with their own personalities/talents and desires. They're so incredibly eager to learn, experiment and explore...you get to facilitate their process of self discovery. It's an awe inspiring thing to watch and I learned a ton myself along the way.

I have a step-sister whose children are younger than mine. She is a single mom too, but she is heavily invested in her career and she makes a TON of money (Microsoft). Her kids are in an excellent private school. She told me that their tuition cost more than her mortgage! I was shocked as she lives in a giant house on acreage in an exclusive equestrian (gated) neighborhood.

I also disagree kids are 'blank slates'. That was how my siblings and I were raised, and I didn't fare as well in society as they (in the eyes of our family), which I think has a lot to do with my personality.

I had attended private high school and it's not something I would want for my kids, even if I could afford it (which might be possible because my parents could help if I asked). For those parents who value college, high-paying careers, and networking, it's probably worth it, but I am more interested in my kids' whole-self development. (Not saying college and all that isn't important, but I don't believe it's for everyone).

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I didn't fare as well in society as they (in the eyes of our family), which I think has a lot to do with my personality.

Me too catan...perhaps we're in the same boat.

My step-sister that I talk about above is my same age. My father paid for her to attend a very exclusive private school when we entered junior high (at her mother's insistence), I got stuck at regular public school. She went on to Vassar and traveled abroad. I went to State Uni and did not fare so well...blah, blah, blah.

My whole family places enormous value on college (I'm a third year drop-out, black sheep EXTRAORDINAIRE), high paying careers and elbow rubbing with Fancy People to the highest degree (oh, I could tell you stories)....but that is NOT me, it's not my gig. I knew in high school that I had to escape.

College isn't for everyone, especially if you question the BS that you're being brainwashed with....

Both of my children have been offered higher education, free of charge, to be paid for at the expense of the corporations that they work for because both of their bosses see their potential. How cool is that? They are both currently considering it. I don't pressure them either way.

So you see, where there's a will, there's a way.

I could never afford to pay for them to attend University (which bummed me out years ago). We talked about/looked in to financial aid. Both my boys decided that they did not wish to start off life saddled with student debt, especially with the inflated tuition rates we see now (what a sham!)....but in the end, they can choose to go to college after all, if they decide to.

 

[catan]

@thebigpeatowski, your sons sound mature for their ages. And that's great that they have the opportunity to go because of their potential, not because that's what society thinks everyone should do.

I never escaped, finished everything and started questioning everything in my mid to late 20s, which I feel was late. But anyway my choices along the way blessed me with two beautiful children so I'm grateful.

I'm very introverted and need a lot of downtime, so still don't know if I'm up for being around my kids full-time. Thus also considering Sudbury.

Whatever we eventually decide though, I feel like the community is most important. That is what is sorely lacking right now, even at a Waldorf preschool.