Vitamin K2 Protective Against Pufa

[Constatine]

Medicines and Vegetable Oils as Hidden Causes of Cardiovascular Disease and Diabetes. - PubMed - NCBI

BACKGROUND:
Positive associations have been observed between cardiovascular disease (CVD) and type 2 diabetes mellitus (DM), but their causal relationship has not been clarified. Nevertheless, guidelines from relevant medical societies recommend using cholesterol lowering medication (statin) for both types of patients. Medicines with several different action mechanisms have been developed, and the effectiveness of different lifestyle modifications has been studied extensively for the prevention of DM, which was successful in improving clinical marker status in relatively short-term treatments, but none have been shown to be effective in improving long-term outcomes (mortality from CVD and all causes).

SUMMARY:
Statin-induced suppression of prenyl intermediates in the cholesterol biosynthetic pathway has been linked to stimulated atherosclerosis and heart failure. On the other hand, certain types of vegetable oil and hydrogenated oil shortened the survival of stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats by decreasing platelet number, increasing hemorrhagic tendency and damaging kidney functions, which could not be accounted for by their fatty acid and phytosterol compositions. These vegetable oils and medicines such as statin and warfarin share, in part, a common mechanism to inhibit vitamin K2-dependent processes, which was interpreted to lead to increased onset of CVD, DM, chronic kidney disease, bone fracture and even mental disorder. Impaired vitamin K2-dependent processes by some types of vegetable oils and medicines, but not plasma high low density lipoprotein cholesterol, were proposed as the cause of CVD, DM and other lifestyle-related diseases. High n-6/n-3 fatty acid ratio of ingested foods, but not animal fats, was emphasized to be another risk factor for many of the diseases described above.

KEY MESSAGES:
To date, no randomized controlled trials (RCTs) have been performed to prove the above interpretation. However, the opposite types of RCT trials have been performed by increasing the intake of high-linoleic vegetable oils and reducing that of animal fats, which resulted in increased CVD and all-cause mortality. The amounts of these vegetable oils to exhibit adverse effects in animal studies are not huge (<6 energy %), which should not be overlooked nor disregarded.


This study seems to blame vegetable oil's ill effects on inhibiting vitamin k2 dependent processes. The authors don't seem to be aware of pufa's other negative mechanisms but still this might mean vitamin k2 is somewhat protective against pufa. It also claims that k2 is necessary for mental well being. Yet another reason to make sure you get your k2.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Great find, thanks for sharing.

 

[ecstatichamster]

here is the entire study
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/446704

This is a fantastic find, thank you SO MUCH @Constatine

Everyone with an interest here should read this in FULL

 

[haidut]

Medicines and Vegetable Oils as Hidden Causes of Cardiovascular Disease and Diabetes. - PubMed - NCBI

BACKGROUND:
Positive associations have been observed between cardiovascular disease (CVD) and type 2 diabetes mellitus (DM), but their causal relationship has not been clarified. Nevertheless, guidelines from relevant medical societies recommend using cholesterol lowering medication (statin) for both types of patients. Medicines with several different action mechanisms have been developed, and the effectiveness of different lifestyle modifications has been studied extensively for the prevention of DM, which was successful in improving clinical marker status in relatively short-term treatments, but none have been shown to be effective in improving long-term outcomes (mortality from CVD and all causes).

SUMMARY:
Statin-induced suppression of prenyl intermediates in the cholesterol biosynthetic pathway has been linked to stimulated atherosclerosis and heart failure. On the other hand, certain types of vegetable oil and hydrogenated oil shortened the survival of stroke-prone spontaneously hypertensive rats by decreasing platelet number, increasing hemorrhagic tendency and damaging kidney functions, which could not be accounted for by their fatty acid and phytosterol compositions. These vegetable oils and medicines such as statin and warfarin share, in part, a common mechanism to inhibit vitamin K2-dependent processes, which was interpreted to lead to increased onset of CVD, DM, chronic kidney disease, bone fracture and even mental disorder. Impaired vitamin K2-dependent processes by some types of vegetable oils and medicines, but not plasma high low density lipoprotein cholesterol, were proposed as the cause of CVD, DM and other lifestyle-related diseases. High n-6/n-3 fatty acid ratio of ingested foods, but not animal fats, was emphasized to be another risk factor for many of the diseases described above.

KEY MESSAGES:
To date, no randomized controlled trials (RCTs) have been performed to prove the above interpretation. However, the opposite types of RCT trials have been performed by increasing the intake of high-linoleic vegetable oils and reducing that of animal fats, which resulted in increased CVD and all-cause mortality. The amounts of these vegetable oils to exhibit adverse effects in animal studies are not huge (<6 energy %), which should not be overlooked nor disregarded.


This study seems to blame vegetable oil's ill effects on inhibiting vitamin k2 dependent processes. The authors don't seem to be aware of pufa's other negative mechanisms but still this might mean vitamin k2 is somewhat protective against pufa. It also claims that k2 is necessary for mental well being. Yet another reason to make sure you get your k2.

Excellent, thanks for posting. I think the gorilla in the room here is the direct comparison of vegetable oils with warfarin. Warfarin also lowers cholesterol, and reduces clotting but with terrible side effects - soft tissue calcification, CVD, and sometimes lethal hemorrhage. Vitamin K opposes all of these effects. I don't think it opposes PUFA directly like vitamin E does, but it does have "functional" antagonism.

 

[Dante]

Excellent, thanks for posting. I think the gorilla in the room here is the direct comparison of vegetable oils with warfarin. Warfarin also lowers cholesterol, and reduces clotting but with terrible side effects - soft tissue calcification, CVD, and sometimes lethal hemorrhage. Vitamin K opposes all of these effects. I don't think it opposes PUFA directly like vitamin E does, but it does have "functional" antagonism.

You forgot the statin bashing :)

 

[haidut]

You forgot the statin bashing :)

True. Statins deplete CoQ10 and vitamin K can serve as an alternative electron carrier. This study is really unique. I have not seen so far a single study bash PUFA, warfarin, and statins together. I mean, these 3 probably form the core of every doctor's daily recommendations - i.e. take a statin, increase unsaturated fats, and if you are at risk of clots then take warfarin. Hhhm, I wonder if these guys work for Glakay, which is based out of Japan
It does not matter though, any evidence against this 3-axis of evil would be welcome.

 

[paymanz]

Yes its great find,thanks!

 

[charlie]

 

[johnwester130]

K2 is a coq10 mimetic

"Further therapeutic indications
Due to its anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidative and anticarcinogenic properties, vitamin K, particularly MK-7, may be of interest in a number of other diseases (e.g., cancer, diabetes, age-related macular degeneration [AMD]); over the next few years, studies will show whether this is the case. Furthermore, because of its structural similarity to coenzyme Q10, it is likely that MK-7 is a Q10 mimetic with respect to the mitochondria and supports mitochondrial adenosine triphosphate (ATP) production in the respiratory chain."

 

[WestCoaster]

Here is a different take on this from a Cardiologist about CVD about causes, what's protective, and whats neutral. This was taken from 17 countries and 150,000 people.

It's a 22 min video, but here is the take away:

- Saturated fats are not harmful
- Monounsaturated fats are protective
- PUFA's are neutral (neither cause nor help with CVD)
- Fruits and Legunes are also neutral Veggies also likely neutral, they neither play a role in creating or preventing CVD
- Diets that are in excess of 50% carbs are harmful

 

[Constatine]

True. Statins deplete CoQ10 and vitamin K can serve as an alternative electron carrier. This study is really unique. I have not seen so far a single study bash PUFA, warfarin, and statins together. I mean, these 3 probably form the core of every doctor's daily recommendations - i.e. take a statin, increase unsaturated fats, and if you are at risk of clots then take warfarin. Hhhm, I wonder if these guys work for Glakay, which is based out of Japan :)
It does not matter though, any evidence against this 3-axis of evil would be welcome.

Yeah I'm surprised to see three of the most villainized things around here be addressed in one article. Is Japan more antidogmatic than Europe or America?

here is the entire study
https://www.karger.com/Article/FullText/446704

This is a fantastic find, thank you SO MUCH @Constatine

Everyone with an interest here should read this in FULL

Thanks for the full text.
Wow after reading the whole thing I must recommend everyone to skim through this when you have the time. I have never seen one article validate so much of Peat's work.

 

[haidut]

Yeah I'm surprised to see three of the most villainized things around here be addressed in one article. Is Japan more antidogmatic than Europe or America?

Thanks for the full text.

Not really, Japan controls its medicine even more so than USA. Glakay is the pharmacetical drug used for osteoporosis in Japan, and it is just vitamin K (MK-4). So, I was (half)-joking that the study may be connected to that vendor. But Japan is also facing a demographic crisis of aging population and a boom in degenerative conditions, especially ones of bone and brain. And for those last two, vitamin K is crucial as both prevention and treatment.

 

[Regina]

True. Statins deplete CoQ10 and vitamin K can serve as an alternative electron carrier. This study is really unique. I have not seen so far a single study bash PUFA, warfarin, and statins together. I mean, these 3 probably form the core of every doctor's daily recommendations - i.e. take a statin, increase unsaturated fats, and if you are at risk of clots then take warfarin. Hhhm, I wonder if these guys work for Glakay, which is based out of Japan :)
It does not matter though, any evidence against this 3-axis of evil would be welcome.

I am still trying to figure out how I got out alive. After I had a "mysterious" blood clot in my subclavian, I was put on warfarin indefinitely. I was never given any answers regarding the clot and they found nothing in the blood and repeated thrombin tests showed I had did not have thick blood. I dutifully took my coumadin pills for, I think, 2 years. One day I just stopped and never went back to the doctor.
Yay Kuinone!!!!! Thank you very much, Sensei.

 

[bistecca]

i love you haidut. your posts are brain food of the highest quality.

 

[Constatine]

Not really, Japan controls its medicine even more so than USA. Glakay is the pharmacetical drug used for osteoporosis in Japan, and it is just vitamin K (MK-4). So, I was (half)-joking that the study may be connected to that vendor. But Japan is also facing a demographic crisis of aging population and a boom in degenerative conditions, especially ones of bone and brain. And for those last two, vitamin K is crucial as both prevention and treatment.

They really control vitamin k?!?!?! I could never live in Japan! Japan seems like the health crisis center of the world right now. The aging population problem is scary. How unhealthy does a population need to be to just stop having sex?

 

[Constatine]

I am still trying to figure out how I got out alive. After I had a "mysterious" blood clot in my subclavian, I was put on warfarin indefinitely. I was never given any answers regarding the clot and they found nothing in the blood and repeated thrombin tests showed I had did not have thick blood. I dutifully took my coumadin pills for, I think, 2 years. One day I just stopped and never went back to the doctor.
Yay Kuinone!!!!! Thank you very much, Sensei.

Modern day doctors are often akin to Witch doctors I think. Pharma has them by the balls and they only casually keep up with new scientific literature.

 

[Drareg]

They really control vitamin k?!?!?! I could never live in Japan! Japan seems like the health crisis center of the world right now. The aging population problem is scary. How unhealthy does a population need to be to just stop having sex?

The okinawan supporters clubs on here will be after you for this comment,clearly these must be the Japanese who don't eat the starchy super potato,the elixir itself.

Imo a very good argument for prior Japanese longevity would be the older generations hubris toward the younger generation,the older generation have leveraged great lifestyles at the expense of their youth.

 

[Drareg]

"Osteocalcin (Ocn), a hormone produced in osteoblasts, is γ-carboxylated by a vitamin K2-dependent enzyme to form carboxylated Ocn (c-Ocn), which is stored in the matrix of the bone. When acid conditions are produced by osteoclasts, c-Ocn is decarboxylated to its under-carboxylated Ocn (uc-Ocn) form [7]. Both c-Ocn and uc-Ocn are secreted into the bloodstream and reach their target organs to affect metabolism in the pancreas (insulin secretion), intestine (incretin secretion), testis (testosterone production), bone (homeostasis), and adipocytes (adiponectin secretion). In some organs related to energy metabolism, uc-Ocn produced from c-Ocn has been reported to be the active form. Both circulating c-Ocn and uc-Ocn are taken up by neurons through a putative G-protein coupled receptor and converted to c-Ocn; they are even transported to the fetal brain through the blood-brain barrier, affecting the development and behavior of offs"

Would applying k2 to the adipose tissue have any effect based in the above bolded quote?

 

[haidut]

"Osteocalcin (Ocn), a hormone produced in osteoblasts, is γ-carboxylated by a vitamin K2-dependent enzyme to form carboxylated Ocn (c-Ocn), which is stored in the matrix of the bone. When acid conditions are produced by osteoclasts, c-Ocn is decarboxylated to its under-carboxylated Ocn (uc-Ocn) form [7]. Both c-Ocn and uc-Ocn are secreted into the bloodstream and reach their target organs to affect metabolism in the pancreas (insulin secretion), intestine (incretin secretion), testis (testosterone production), bone (homeostasis), and adipocytes (adiponectin secretion). In some organs related to energy metabolism, uc-Ocn produced from c-Ocn has been reported to be the active form. Both circulating c-Ocn and uc-Ocn are taken up by neurons through a putative G-protein coupled receptor and converted to c-Ocn; they are even transported to the fetal brain through the blood-brain barrier, affecting the development and behavior of offs"

Would applying k2 to the adipose tissue have any effect based in the above bolded quote?

It should. I think topical vitamin K can do a lot of good for reversing soft tissue calcification, obesity and osteopenia. When used orally, the liver and brain tend to sequester most of it but when used topically close to tissues of interest it should have even more dramatic effect.

 

[Constatine]

"Osteocalcin (Ocn), a hormone produced in osteoblasts, is γ-carboxylated by a vitamin K2-dependent enzyme to form carboxylated Ocn (c-Ocn), which is stored in the matrix of the bone. When acid conditions are produced by osteoclasts, c-Ocn is decarboxylated to its under-carboxylated Ocn (uc-Ocn) form [7]. Both c-Ocn and uc-Ocn are secreted into the bloodstream and reach their target organs to affect metabolism in the pancreas (insulin secretion), intestine (incretin secretion), testis (testosterone production), bone (homeostasis), and adipocytes (adiponectin secretion). In some organs related to energy metabolism, uc-Ocn produced from c-Ocn has been reported to be the active form. Both circulating c-Ocn and uc-Ocn are taken up by neurons through a putative G-protein coupled receptor and converted to c-Ocn; they are even transported to the fetal brain through the blood-brain barrier, affecting the development and behavior of offs"

Would applying k2 to the adipose tissue have any effect based in the above bolded quote?

First off I think local application will help due to enhancing atp function but I don't think local application will work via the highlighted mechanism. Mind you any type of vitamin k application will reduce fat via total osteocalcin increase but in order for the total osteocalcin to rise it must be secreted via osteoblasts in the bone so this mechanism will not have effect until vitamin k stimulates the bones. Then again the vitamin k might stimulate the more local osteoblasts so it is a tricky problem. I might be very wrong in my thinking as I have only recently learned about these mechanisms. Nevertheless it's worth a try.