There Is No Such Thing As A "healthy" Microbiome

[haidut]

In support of Ray's opinion of keeping the gut as sterile as possible, this article in the NYT describes how mistaken the common belief in probiotics is. With the exception of cases like infections with C. Difficile where fecal transplant may be necessary, it is probably best to leave the microbiome alone and, if Ray is right, to keep its numbers as low as possible using antibiotics and charcoal / carrot.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/02/opini ... share&_r=0

 

[Suikerbuik]

Thanks for bringing up this article I enjoyed it. Articles such as these are good, but I wouldn't build conclusions up on this.

I mean, I probably read it different than you :). I didn't read anything that says you need to keep the gut as sterile as possible. It only says that microbiome is taken out of context, and this is very true. You have to see the microbiome in context of the host. It is also clear that there is no ideal microbiome, but this doesn't mean we will have to leave the microbiome for what it is. Truth is that, at this point in time, we can only speculate and debate.

 

[pboy]

i mean i could write a lot on this but ill keep it short

its clearly a marketing, medical thing, with ignorance and money behind it. No one even needs to know anything, ANYTHING, about so called 'bacteria' to be heathy or have a healthy gut! If anything, the 'knowledge' will just mess with basic senses and intuition. Gut health has to do with macronutrients, vits, minerals, and the various fibers, acids, tannins, or whatever else you might be consuming. People speaking of probiotics are full of ***t (literally) and desperately trying to find a way to, probably, have normal GI flow and emptying. They probably don't have a good diet or don't eat, live, in time with their circadian rythmn...no amount of 'gut bacteria' managing is going to do anything if you don't have basic diet and lifestyle down...and when you have basic diet and lifestyle down...topics such as 'probiotics' either seem like a crafted story/concept to sell things, or a sad desperate attempt by ill people to overcome their problems, rather than to submit to simple nature and their senses about everything

i can honestly say from experience, all fermented foods, or probiotics (outside maybe yogurt and cheese...and that's just to do with their nutrient density, nothing to do with bacteria factor) have done nothing but bad to me every time ive consumed...and the fresh counterpart is always better

on a side note, I came across something recently that suggested that some plants actually contain DNA that is very similar to the bacteria that grow on them...so much so that its in question of whether or not the plant itself produces them from fragments of genetic material, possibly when they break down. I don't know if its true or not, but it would explain the diversity and rapid changing of microbiome..it would explain a lot of things...the bacteria are in a sense just fragments of the broken down plant that finish off the decomposition. This may not be true at all, but either way it doesn't matter or you don't need to know to be healthy!

 

[Suikerbuik]

on a side note, I came across something recently that suggested that some plants actually contain DNA that is very similar to the bacteria that grow on them...so much so that its in question of whether or not the plant itself produces them from fragments of genetic material, possibly when they break down. I don't know if its true or not, but it would explain the diversity and rapid changing of microbiome..it would explain a lot of things...the bacteria are in a sense just fragments of the broken down plant that finish off the decomposition. This may not be true at all, but either way it doesn't matter or you don't need to know to be healthy!

Could you maybe look up where you read this? I doubt this to be honest. Plants are derived from bacteria, maybe like likes like?

Bacteria grow in a logarithmic fashion and acquire DNA changes driven by environmental exposures and chance - also read epigenetic alterations that among other things modifies chromatin structure which creates susceptible spots. Some spots even seem made to be prone to DNA changes to enhance survival rate. Also bacteria are known to pick up foreign DNA, it sometimes breaks the stuff down and it sometimes benefit from it, but I have not seen anything myself yet about the uptake of plant DNA.

 

[pboy]

yea im not sure I believe it. I think probably what happened was bacteria injected genes into a plant or something. I cant find where the info came from, I think It have been part of an interview or video or something...but it was questionable. I do think however that bacteria change so rapidly and it depends on their substrate of growth...so any kind of attempt to force a certain biome would only be effective through the food you ate...I don't think probiotic loading would do anything good, and its probably bad for the immune system