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haidut

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It is a human study, and it used a relatively low dose theanine - only 250mg daily for 8 weeks. Theanine improved virtually all symptoms including actual symptoms of depression, anxiety, and cognitive function. I wonder what would double that dose have achieved given the study I posted about theanine BOTH reducing serotonin and increasing dopamine.

Effects of chronic l-theanine administration in patients with major depressive disorder: an open-label study. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Our study suggests that chronic (8-week) l-theanine administration is safe and has multiple beneficial effects on depressive symptoms, anxiety, sleep disturbance and cognitive impairments in patients with MDD. However, since this is an open-label study, placebo-controlled studies are required to consolidate the effects."
 

Velve921

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Theanine has probably been my top 3 supplements I've ever tried...even more powerful than thyroid and cyproheptadine. It has been instrumental for helping me sleep; combining with androsterone has been the best sleep combination for myself so far!
 

milk_lover

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Great stuff, thanks for posting haidut.

Question. Any difference between Suntheanine and regular L-Theanine in terms of potency?
 

SQu

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Theanine completely controls depression and anxiety symptoms for me but I take more, 3-4x300mg spaced through the day, depending.It does make me want to nap but not so badly I can't function and it's worth it for not feeling so awful. I don't know where I'd be without it since magnesium alone stopped doing the job. Tyrosine and P5P+magnesium makes the effect even better. Thanks for the info!
 

haidut

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Great stuff, thanks for posting haidut.

Question. Any difference between Suntheanine and regular L-Theanine in terms of potency?

I think all theanine brands would produce similar effects if they are pure and without additives. I see nothing special about Suntheanine.
 

aguilaroja

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I think all theanine brands would produce similar effects if they are pure and without additives. I see nothing special about Suntheanine.

My individual experience matches haidut’s view. I noticed no difference between sun theanine and other theanine products. This includes suppliers listed at https://www.toxinless.com/theanine

This sampling has been done over years, intermittently. Nutrient quality, of course, remains important, and is not necessarily easy to determine.
 

aguilaroja

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It is a human study, and it used a relatively low dose theanine - only 250mg daily for 8 weeks. ... I wonder what would double that dose have achieved given the study I posted about theanine BOTH reducing serotonin and increasing dopamine.

Effects of chronic l-theanine administration in patients with major depressive disorder: an open-label study. - PubMed - NCBI"

The study used theanine as an additional agent to what meds the subjects were already taking.

It would be important to see how higher amounts of theanine are helpful, as haidut notes.

Theanine is likely at least HUNDREDS of times less likely to cause adverse effects than the pharmaceuticals subjects were already taking.

One animal study found “no consistent, statistically significant treatment-related adverse effects” using 4 grams of per kg in animal subjects. The adult human equivalent would be more than 200 grams (rather than mg) per day to test for side effects.
A 13-week dietary toxicity and toxicokinetic study with l-theanine in rats. - PubMed - NCBI

Studies also suggest that theanine by itself is protective, for instance,

protective against aluminum neurotoxicity:
Protective effect of L-Theanine against aluminium induced neurotoxicity in cerebral cortex, hippocampus and cerebellum of rat brain - histopatholog... - PubMed - NCBI

protective against stomach ulcers:
L-Theanine healed NSAID-induced gastric ulcer by modulating pro/antioxidant balance in gastric ulcer margin. - PubMed - NCBI

protective against liver injury by carbon tetrachloride:
Protective effect of L-theanine on carbon tetrachloride-induced acute liver injury in mice. - PubMed - NCBI

protective against neurotoxic side effects of the insecticides rotenone and dieldrin:
Protective effect of the green tea component, L-theanine on environmental toxins-induced neuronal cell death. - PubMed - NCBI

I agree with haidut. Increasing the “dose” of a safe, protective nutrient seems like very good experimental strategy.
 

Dan Wich

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Also interesting that some of the symptoms might be on a downward trend. So perhaps they'd improve even more with time:
theanine-depression-hidese-et-al.png
 
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Thanks so much for posting this! Seems like this has a lot of potential. I'll have to try it. What dosage would you recommend?
 

haidut

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Spokey

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This rings true with my experiences, I've found theanine very useful for just this. I stumbled across the stuff looking for things to help me deal with stress, I'd read somewhere it could reduce cortisol. It's been a winner for me every time I've used it, and one of the first things I noticed was it's effect on my depression, I could actually handle work without feeling utterly crushed by the end of the day, previously only niacin and vitamin D had any effect there.
It seems to stop having the more noticeable effects after a week or so of continuous use, but it's great for times of extreme stress or an unexpected late night where I have to think the next day. But since the study ran for 8 weeks I wouldn't be surprised if just my awareness of improvements were just diminished due to some sort of habituation.
 

ilikecats

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I also get really empathetic and sometimes feel like crying. Not depressed but real sadness. This could be from lowering serotonin. I got a similar feeling from high dose lysine. Ray peat says serotonin can act like a mask for your senses. there were certainly legimate issues to be sad about.. . But caffeine and nicotine give me that go get em attitude and they both lower serotonin
 

PUTFOT

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I also get really empathetic and sometimes feel like crying. Not depressed but real sadness. This could be from lowering serotonin. I got a similar feeling from high dose lysine. Ray peat says serotonin can act like a mask for your senses. there were certainly legimate issues to be sad about.. . But caffeine and nicotine give me that go get em attitude and they both lower serotonin
Maybe lowered DHT.
 

Dan Wich

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Since black tea lowers DHT, can theanine have the same effect?
I think the black tea -> lower DHT idea is based on this study (I'd be curious if anyone knows any other sources). They also tested green tea, which didn't have the same effect:
Mice treated with black tea tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5α-reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT. Green tea tended to increase serum testosterone and DHT levels by 73.8% (P = 0.14) and 194% (P = 0.076), respectively.

That implies to me that it's likely to be due to something other than theanine, or, at worst, only occurs with the higher amount of theanine in black tea. The authors mention:
In this study, black tea reduced serum levels of DHT (Fig. 2D), suggesting that black tea may have bioactive components that inhibit the conversion of testosterone to DHT, presumably via inhibition of 5α-reductase in this SCID-LNCaP animal model. It is unclear whether black tea theaflavins, EGCG and/or other components are responsible for this function in vivo.
 

haidut

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I think the black tea -> lower DHT idea is based on this study (I'd be curious if anyone knows any other sources). They also tested green tea, which didn't have the same effect:


That implies to me that it's likely to be due to something other than theanine, or, at worst, only occurs with the higher amount of theanine in black tea. The authors mention:

Theanine lowers the cortisol/DHEAS ratio, which should increase androgens. Anything that lowers cortisol is likely to increase androgen production as cortisol is a direct inhibitor of the Leydig cells in the gonads. So, highly unlikely that the effects seen with tea are due to theanine. It is much more likely they are due to EGCG, which is a potent estrogen.
Serum levels of brain-derived neurotrophic factor and cortisol to sulfate of dehydroepiandrosterone molar ratio associated with clinical response t... - PubMed - NCBI
 

Linux

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Theanine has probably been my top 3 supplements I've ever tried...even more powerful than thyroid and cyproheptadine. It has been instrumental for helping me sleep; combining with androsterone has been the best sleep combination for myself so far!
@Ewlevy1 - Are you trying to lower serotonin levels? I ask because cyproheptadine and, reportedly L-theanine, reduce serotonergic activity (albeit though different mechanisms, AFAIK). Also, did Thyroid help you sleep? Interesting "top 3 supplements" you picked there. I'd like to learn more on how they helped. Cheers!
 

Velve921

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@Ewlevy1 - Are you trying to lower serotonin levels? I ask because cyproheptadine and, reportedly L-theanine, reduce serotonergic activity (albeit though different mechanisms, AFAIK). Also, did Thyroid help you sleep? Interesting "top 3 supplements" you picked there. I'd like to learn more on how they helped. Cheers!

I'm not trying to target specific neurotransmitters and/or hormones per say anymore. I'm going more so based on the general response of, "high levels of energy during the day, sleep well at night and have high levels of optimism and visualizaions"

Theanine and cyproheptadine help me fall asleep. Androsterone has shown me similar effects...with all 3 it looks like I could directly be inhibiting histamine, serotonin, and estrogen.

3 years ago when insomnia and urinaton was so bad...I remember trying T3 in the middle of the night and it knocked me out. Since then I always do dessicatwd before bed time and in the middle of the night when I urinate. I think I'm a specific case as thyroid can energize people too much.

It's becoming more clear that I'm overcoming a lot of damage from many variables.
 

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