The Effect Of Mold Upon Mitochondrial Respiration- Info Wanted

[Re.Generate]

Hey y’all - I recently bumped my temps by half a degree in two days by switching my coffee!

have been having white tongue, major water retention and foghorns for a while and trying to work it out - finally realized I had switched from my normal coffee for a while and switching back, due to a suspicion around possible mold, suddenly it feels like an energy blockage was removed - getting properly warm and toasty again and problems with milk that had been one of my symptoms also just disappeared - maybe do well to think about and test different coffee brands if anyone has similar symptoms!!

anyway - found this study but can’t access the full link Ochratoxin A: Inhibition of Mitochondrial Respiration

The substance studied is apparently the major mycotoxin in the food supply and in particular seems to be connected to various coffees - and seems to suppress respiration at least in the liver.

anyone have full access???

 

[Mauritio]

Interesting! Wondering of it's also in the air in mold containing appartments

 

[Re.Generate]

Interesting! Wondering of it's also in the air on mold containing appartments

Seems to be from a few things I’ve read - but I think it applies to the ray peat world particularly from the coffee viewpoint!

unfortunately and as much as I hate to admit it - this is one place where I now think dave asprey could be right

if many coffees might be causing a problem with respiration then a LOT of RP folk might be continually suffering problems and never really moving forward due simply to a continual low level respiration problem from their coffee!

makes sense the people I have heard talking about caffeine tablets working better for them than coffee

 

[redsun]

Caffeine will increase noradrenaline, which helps with energy while mold exposure inhibits DBH and cause low energy. I supposed too much mold exposure from either food or the air where you live can cause problems.
Effect of fusaric acid (a dopamine beta-hydroxylase inhibitor) on phaeochromocytoma - PubMed

 

[mrchibbs]

Hey y’all - I recently bumped my temps by half a degree in two days by switching my coffee!

have been having white tongue, major water retention and foghorns for a while and trying to work it out - finally realized I had switched from my normal coffee for a while and switching back, due to a suspicion around possible mold, suddenly it feels like an energy blockage was removed - getting properly warm and toasty again and problems with milk that had been one of my symptoms also just disappeared - maybe do well to think about and test different coffee brands if anyone has similar symptoms!!

anyway - found this study but can’t access the full link Ochratoxin A: Inhibition of Mitochondrial Respiration

The substance studied is apparently the major mycotoxin in the food supply and in particular seems to be connected to various coffees - and seems to suppress respiration at least in the liver.

anyone have full access???

Sci-Hub | Ochratoxin A: Inhibition of Mitochondrial Respiration. Science, 168(3935), 1102–1103 | 10.1126/science.168.3935.1102

Moreover, extra T3 can protect against mold exposure, and good coffee can mimic T3's effects:

Non-Thyroidal Illness Syndrome in Patients Exposed to Indoor Air Dampness Microbiota Treated Successfully with Triiodothyronine

 

[Re.Generate]

Sci-Hub | Ochratoxin A: Inhibition of Mitochondrial Respiration. Science, 168(3935), 1102–1103 | 10.1126/science.168.3935.1102

Moreover, extra T3 can protect against mold exposure, and good coffee can mimic T3's effects:

Non-Thyroidal Illness Syndrome in Patients Exposed to Indoor Air Dampness Microbiota Treated Successfully with Triiodothyronine

Super thanks!!!! - however with the t3 - I have been taking it - and think it helped to keep me from getting completely ****88 - though it wasn’t enough to overpower it and really get me warm when I was having my 10 or so strong coffees every day - was still full with water retention, white tongue, aching joints, bad breath - wasn’t nice - and one day after quitting the coffee - gone!

 

[mrchibbs]

Super thanks!!!! - however with the t3 - I have been taking it - and think it helped to keep me from getting completely ****88 - though it wasn’t enough to overpower it and really get me warm when I was having my 10 or so strong coffees every day - was still full with water retention, white tongue, aching joints, bad breath - wasn’t nice - and one day after quitting the coffee - gone!

It's possible too much coffee can deplete your liver glycogen and make you more susceptible to a reaction to mold/allergens. It does increase your nutritional/calorie requirement so that could be as simple as just adding more food.

Did you experiment with adding lots of (organic) cream and sugar to your coffee? The cream helps to slow down to absorption of coffee, and the sugar provides some calories to prevent the hypoglycaemia.

I personally find I need to eat food very regularly and add cream and sugar to ensure coffee doesn't have adverse effects.

 

[Re.Generate]

It's possible too much coffee can deplete your liver glycogen and make you more susceptible to a reaction to mold/allergens. It does increase your nutritional/calorie requirement so that could be as simple as just adding more food.

Did you experiment with adding lots of (organic) cream and sugar to your coffee? The cream helps to slow down to absorption of coffee, and the sugar provides some calories to prevent the hypoglycaemia.

I personally find I need to eat food very regularly and add cream and sugar to ensure coffee doesn't have adverse effects.

Haha

trust me I thought of that one - forget coffee with milk and cream - try first waking up and having half a liter of OJ with added fructose and sugar and then a coffee made with whole fat warmed milk with gelatin melted in and 3 tablespoons of sugar then added butter and cream - I tried the hell out of the low glycogen possibility

then lots of food throughout the day and with any other coffee

 

[not_James_Bond]

What is type and brand of your normal coffee?

 

[Re.Generate]

What is type and brand of your normal coffee?

Here in Austria, the better coffee seems to be from Hofer (Aldi everywhere else) - using their own organic brand "Natur Aktiv" - the one I had switched to was "alnatura" - also an organic brand but apparently with more stuff in it.

Testing ongoingly today and definitely most of the symptoms gone - seems to be even better when I use caffeine pills instead of coffee at all - guessing that even the better brand has something in it - another thing I personally notice is that I do better on white sugar than brown or whole - though Ray has often suggested that himself too of course.

Will maybe really just buy one of these "officially mold/toxin-free" coffees and just give it a go to see what happens - up until now I have basically just sniffed at the idea but there does seem to be something there - and seeing that a major mechanism of action is suppressing mitochondrial respiration especially in the liver seems to me to be well worth taking some time over.

 

[not_James_Bond]

@Harryedgar Would be interesting if you stuck to caffeine pills and drank herbal/fruit teas as coffee replacement for a week, or two for experimental purposes

 

[Re.Generate]

@Harryedgar Would be interesting if you stuck to caffeine pills and drank herbal/fruit teas as coffee replacement for a week, or two for experimental purposes

i am considering it - though god the idea of going without the sweet sweet flavor of coffee makes it hard to go for it!!!

 

[Javalon]

My test results I am working on myself. I almost flipped at my results. What ever you do, don't guess on what you have on board!
Get tested, do not guess! I used MyLabsForLife.com - they carry the licensure so we can order ourselves. Get tested!

 

[BearWithMe]

It's possible too much coffee can deplete your liver glycogen and make you more susceptible to a reaction to mold/allergens. It does increase your nutritional/calorie requirement so that could be as simple as just adding more food.

Did you experiment with adding lots of (organic) cream and sugar to your coffee? The cream helps to slow down to absorption of coffee, and the sugar provides some calories to prevent the hypoglycaemia.

I personally find I need to eat food very regularly and add cream and sugar to ensure coffee doesn't have adverse effects.

I'm really curious, how often do you eat and how much do you eat with each portion?

 

[mrchibbs]

I'm really curious, how often do you eat and how much do you eat with each portion?

Every 2 hours when I can, 3 hours max. Reasonable portions, but closer to snack than meal.

 

[BearWithMe]

Every 2 hours when I can, 3 hours max. Reasonable portions, but closer to snack than meal.

Awesome, thank you!

 

[mrchibbs]

Awesome, thank you!

No problem!

 

[BearWithMe]

Could using caffeine tablets possibly give the benefits of drinking coffee without many of the downsides? I'm pretty sure that mold and mycotoxin content of average caffeine tablet would be close to zero.

 

[mrchibbs]

Could using caffeine tablets possibly give the benefits of drinking coffee without many of the downsides? I'm pretty sure that mold and mycotoxin content of average caffeine tablet would be close to zero.

Some, sure, but I think there is more to coffee than just caffeine, and the psychological enjoyment of a cup of coffee is non-negligible.

 

[ursidae]

they finally took off the rotted wooden construction attached the wall on the balcony

I lived there from birth until 19-20 with some short lived movements