Test For Estrogenic Activity And Prostate Cancer

haidut

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In addition to getting a test for prolactin as in indicator of estrogenic burden, this study makes a case for using the blood levels of estrone (E1) sulfate as a reliable indicator of global estrogenic activity. So, the next time you get some bloodwork you should ask for testing E1 in addition to (or maybe instead of) E2 (estradiol) since E1 is a better predictor of how estrogenic your organism is.

Serum levels of sex steroids and metabolites following 12 weeks of intravaginal 0.50% DHEA administration. - PubMed - NCBI

"...In addition, serum E1-S, a particularly reliable indicator of global estrogenic activity, shows serum levels practically superimposable to the value observed in normal postmenopausal women (219 versus 220pg/ml). Similarly, serum ADT-G, the major metabolite of androgens, remains within normal postmenopausal values. The present data confirm the intracellular transformation of DHEA in the vagina resulting in local efficacy without any systemic exposure to sex steroids, observations which are in agreement with the physiological mechanisms of menopause."

Also, it looks like serum levels of E1-S are used as a prognostic indicator for prostate cancer.

Estrone sulfate - Wikipedia
"...It has been described as a prognosis indicator for prostate cancer."

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ncer.shtml
"...When a friend of mine was told he had prostate cancer, though he had had no symptoms, and should receive large doses of estrogen, I reviewed the literature, to see whether his doctor might have seen something I had neglected. Since that time, I have found it necessary to use quotation marks around the phrases "medical research" and "medical science," because there is a certain kind of "research" performed within the medical profession which is peculiar to that profession."

"...In spite of the articles I showed my friend, and my warning that estrogen can cause strokes and heart attacks, he decided to take the estrogen treatment. Within a few days he began suffering from asthma and disturbed sleep. Then he had a series of strokes and died. "

And finally, another study resonating quite well with Peat's warning to his friend on "treatment" with estrogen.
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/c ... 2/169.long
"...The serious and frequently lethal cardio- and cerebrovascular complications of estrogens [in prostate cancer] (VACURG 1967, Robinson & Thomas 1971, Peeling 1989), on one hand, and the psychological (Lunglmayr et al. 1988, Cassileth et al. 1989) as well as the physical limitations of orchiectomy, on the other hand, have generally delayed endocrine treatment until late stages of the disease when pain and debility had developed. Typically, at such a late stage, the large and disseminated tumors show poor and short-lived responses, thus limiting the success of endocrine therapy. In fact, similar to treatments for all other types of cancers, androgen blockade loses its effectiveness with increasing size of the tumors (Chen et al. 1996)."
 
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Blossom

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Thanks again for more information related to prostate cancer. I pass along everything you post on this subject to my father who has opted for the watchful waiting approach with his own prostate cancer. He is certainly very informed and I think it annoys the heck out of his urologist! :lol:
 

haidut

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Blossom said:
post 100818 Thanks again for more information related to prostate cancer. I pass along everything you post on this subject to my father who has opted for the watchful waiting approach with his own prostate cancer. He is certainly very informed and I think it annoys the heck out of his urologist! :lol:

Lol, I think urologists can benefit from a little annoyance. It may cause some of them to start reading and learning instead of applying (wrong) dogma they learned decades ago.
Did you see the post on testosterone administration blocking even terminal prostate cancer? Has your dad considered some anti-estrogen therapy, even as "basic" as aspirin?
 
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Blossom

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haidut said:
post 100820
Blossom said:
post 100818 Thanks again for more information related to prostate cancer. I pass along everything you post on this subject to my father who has opted for the watchful waiting approach with his own prostate cancer. He is certainly very informed and I think it annoys the heck out of his urologist! :lol:

Lol, I think urologists can benefit from a little annoyance. It may cause some of them to start reading and learning instead of applying (wrong) dogma they learned decades ago.
Did you see the post on testosterone administration blocking even terminal prostate cancer? Has your dad considered some anti-estrogen therapy, even as "basic" as aspirin?
I didn't see the testosterone post but I will certainly look it up! My dad is coming around slowly thanks in part to your valuable research links. I've been trying to just present him with any information I think might be beneficial and then leave it up to him to decide what to do. I've seen so many families fraught with conflict over medical issues that I try to just respect his choices. He has significantly reduced pufa and stopped taking statins (he doesn't have heart disease) which I'm thrilled about. I'll definitely mention aspirin the next time I see him. Thanks again
 
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haidut

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Blossom said:
post 100876
haidut said:
post 100820
Blossom said:
post 100818 Thanks again for more information related to prostate cancer. I pass along everything you post on this subject to my father who has opted for the watchful waiting approach with his own prostate cancer. He is certainly very informed and I think it annoys the heck out of his urologist! :lol:

Lol, I think urologists can benefit from a little annoyance. It may cause some of them to start reading and learning instead of applying (wrong) dogma they learned decades ago.
Did you see the post on testosterone administration blocking even terminal prostate cancer? Has your dad considered some anti-estrogen therapy, even as "basic" as aspirin?
I didn't see the testosterone post but I will certainly look it up! My dad is coming around slowly thanks in part to your valuable research links. I've been trying to just present him with any information I think might be beneficial and then leave it up to him to decide what to do. I've seen so many families fraught with conflict over medical issues that I try to just respect his choices. He has significantly reduced pufa and stopped taking statins (he doesn't have heart disease) which I'm thrilled about. I'll definitely mention aspirin the next time I see him. Thanks again

OK, here is something from Peat and from me on testosterone and prostate cancer.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/pr ... ncer.shtml
"...The pituitary hormones have diverse functons, including effects on epithelial tissues, other than their "classical" functions. Growth hormone, ACTH (Lostroh and Li, 1957), and ACTH with prolactin (Tullner, 1963) stimulate prostate growth. Prolactin--which is increased by estrogen--stimulates growth of the rat's lateral prostate (Holland and Lee, 1980), and stimulates the growth of human prostate epithelial cells in vitro (Syms, et al., 1985). LH (luteinizing hormone) increases when progesterone or testosterone is deficient, and growth hormone and prolactin (which are closely associated in evolution) both increase under a variety of stressful situations, and with estrogenic stimulation. Prostate cancer patients who had higher levels of LH and lower testosterone died most quickly. (Harper, et al., 1984.) Also, a high ratio of testosterone to estradiol or of testosterone to prolactin corresponded to better survival (Rannikko, et al., 1981.) Considered separately, patients with higher testosterone levels had a better prognosis than those with lower levels, and patients with lower growth hormone levels did better than those with higher growth hormone levels. (Wilson, et al., 1985.) Has anyone ever tried testosterone therapy for prostate cancer? Or, more practically, a generalized antiestrogenic therapy, using thyroid, progesterone, and pregnenolone? Other drugs (naloxone, bromocriptine, gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists, and anti-growth hormone druges, e.g.) are available to regulate the pituitary hormones, and might be useful therapeutically or preventively. (See Blaakaer, et al., 1995.) Biskind and Biskind's work (1944) with ovarian tumors might be relevant to both testicular and prostate cancer."

Yes Ray, they heard you and tried testosterone for prostate cancer and...it worked!!!
viewtopic.php?f=75&t=5579

I would actually consult with Peat on this one since I think using DHT is even better for prostate cancer as it does not aromatize into estrogen. Peat himself said that to him testosterone is "almost as dangerous as estrogen", and I presume that its easy aromatization is the reason for this statement. This can be achieved with using DHT directly or taking small doses of DHEA (5mg) a few times a day. Small doses of DHEA have a conversion rate into DHT of about 60%, so taking a total of 15mg DHEA will probably give 8mg - 9mg DHT as a result of conversion. Physiological production of DHT in young males is about 12mg, so your dad will be pretty close to a young buck again:):
But, again, I would ask Peat first before trying any of that.
 
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Blossom

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Thanks for the excellent information haidut! I will most definitely pass this on to my Dad and of course ask for Ray's input. If I can get him to try some of these things and his PSA results improve as a result of it I will post it here.
I do think his regular beer consumption is contributing to his estrogen issues so hopefully I can convince him to replace the beer with something like vodka and OJ until he is able to give up alcohol altogether. I know it's not ideal that he drinks but if I can get him to make the switch to something less estrogenic and optimize his hormones he might start feeling well enough to kick the habit. Do you have any thoughts on that?
 

haidut

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Blossom said:
post 100961 Thanks for the excellent information haidut! I will most definitely pass this on to my Dad and of course ask for Ray's input. If I can get him to try some of these things and his PSA results improve as a result of it I will post it here.
I do think his regular beer consumption is contributing to his estrogen issues so hopefully I can convince him to replace the beer with something like vodka and OJ until he is able to give up alcohol altogether. I know it's not ideal that he drinks but if I can get him to make the switch to something less estrogenic and optimize his hormones he might start feeling well enough to kick the habit. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Alcohol, even clear liquor like vodka, raises prolactin and estrogen. Given prolactin's role in prostate cancer I would advise him to stop drinking but in the meantime he can take some vitamin B6 (P5P) since it lowers prolactin and is also an estrogen receptor antagonist.
 
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Blossom

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Ok great! I obviously would prefer he stop drinking but sometimes convincing a 70 year old man to change his ways can be challenging. It's great to have options for mitigating the damage in the meantime. He has made a lot of changes already so there is hope. Maybe if I present it as just a plan to try short term and he will then notice enough improvement that he will choose to stick with it long term. I'll keep you and the forum posted. Thanks again.
 
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A couple years ago I had high estradiol and low estrone :shock:
 

haidut

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Blossom said:
post 100970 Ok great! I obviously would prefer he stop drinking but sometimes convincing a 70 year old man to change his ways can be challenging. It's great to have options for mitigating the damage in the meantime. He has made a lot of changes already so there is hope. Maybe if I present it as just a plan to try short term and he will then notice enough improvement that he will choose to stick with it long term. I'll keep you and the forum posted. Thanks again.

Vitamins B1 and B2 are also helpful as they are needed for the liver to be able to detoxify estrogens.
 
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haidut

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Such_Saturation said:
post 100974 A couple years ago I had high estradiol and low estrone :shock:

Did you also have high T at the same time?
 
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Blossom

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haidut said:
post 100979
Blossom said:
post 100970 Ok great! I obviously would prefer he stop drinking but sometimes convincing a 70 year old man to change his ways can be challenging. It's great to have options for mitigating the damage in the meantime. He has made a lot of changes already so there is hope. Maybe if I present it as just a plan to try short term and he will then notice enough improvement that he will choose to stick with it long term. I'll keep you and the forum posted. Thanks again.

Vitamins B1 and B2 are also helpful as they are needed for the liver to be able to detoxify estrogens.
I've noticed many alcoholics receiving medical treatment are routinely prescribed B1. Perhaps energin would be a good supplement for my Dad since it has the B1,B2 and B6 which sound valuable for his situation? It would certainly be convenient for him to take the b's he needs that way.
 
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haidut

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Blossom said:
post 100984
haidut said:
post 100979
Blossom said:
post 100970 Ok great! I obviously would prefer he stop drinking but sometimes convincing a 70 year old man to change his ways can be challenging. It's great to have options for mitigating the damage in the meantime. He has made a lot of changes already so there is hope. Maybe if I present it as just a plan to try short term and he will then notice enough improvement that he will choose to stick with it long term. I'll keep you and the forum posted. Thanks again.

Vitamins B1 and B2 are also helpful as they are needed for the liver to be able to detoxify estrogens.
I've noticed many alcoholics receiving medical are routinely prescribed B1. Perhaps energin would be a good supplement for my Dad since it has the B1,B2 and B6 which sound valuable for his situation? It would certainly be convenient for him to take the b's he needs that way.

Yeah, a B complex like Energin is not a bad idea. It can also help reduce lactic acid due to the tumor.
 
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Blossom

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haidut said:
post 100987
Blossom said:
post 100984
haidut said:
post 100979
Blossom said:
post 100970 Ok great! I obviously would prefer he stop drinking but sometimes convincing a 70 year old man to change his ways can be challenging. It's great to have options for mitigating the damage in the meantime. He has made a lot of changes already so there is hope. Maybe if I present it as just a plan to try short term and he will then notice enough improvement that he will choose to stick with it long term. I'll keep you and the forum posted. Thanks again.

Vitamins B1 and B2 are also helpful as they are needed for the liver to be able to detoxify estrogens.
I've noticed many alcoholics receiving medical are routinely prescribed B1. Perhaps energin would be a good supplement for my Dad since it has the B1,B2 and B6 which sound valuable for his situation? It would certainly be convenient for him to take the b's he needs that way.

Yeah, a B complex like Energin is not a bad idea. It can also help reduce lactic acid due to the tumor.
Awesome! That's easy enough. I'm confident I can persuade him to add some supplements to help optimize his nutrition and hormones just because of the other changes he has made thus far. When he was first diagnosed the doctor told him his drinking and smoking would kill him quicker than the prostate cancer and he did manage to quit cigarettes. I'm hopeful with all of this information it will be just the motivation he needs to leave the alcohol alone. I think having hope that we can heal and feeling even small improvements is an excellent motivator. Thanks for your time, the many wonderful links and your input. :hattip
 
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moss

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Blossom said:
post 100990
haidut said:
post 100987
Blossom said:
post 100984
haidut said:
post 100979
Blossom said:
post 100970 Ok great! I obviously would prefer he stop drinking but sometimes convincing a 70 year old man to change his ways can be challenging. It's great to have options for mitigating the damage in the meantime. He has made a lot of changes already so there is hope. Maybe if I present it as just a plan to try short term and he will then notice enough improvement that he will choose to stick with it long term. I'll keep you and the forum posted. Thanks again.

Vitamins B1 and B2 are also helpful as they are needed for the liver to be able to detoxify estrogens.
I've noticed many alcoholics receiving medical are routinely prescribed B1. Perhaps energin would be a good supplement for my Dad since it has the B1,B2 and B6 which sound valuable for his situation? It would certainly be convenient for him to take the b's he needs that way.

Yeah, a B complex like Energin is not a bad idea. It can also help reduce lactic acid due to the tumor.
Awesome! That's easy enough. I'm confident I can persuade him to add some supplements to help optimize his nutrition and hormones just because of the other changes he has made thus far. When he was first diagnosed the doctor told him his drinking and smoking would kill him quicker than the prostate cancer and he did manage to quit cigarettes. I'm hopeful with all of this information it will be just the motivation he needs to leave the alcohol alone. I think having hope that we can heal and feeling even small improvements is an excellent motivator. Thanks for your time, the many wonderful links and your input. :hattip
Great post.

Blossom, if I can get my father (who has BPH) to take Nettle Root (an aromatase blocker) there is hope....and not suggesting you do so with your father. He is 88 and goes through bouts of no drinking and is quite happy to do so. He is certainly the better for it in those periods and takes B vits as well. Sadly his wife is catabolic, drinks for her country and makes things problematic on so many levels.... they are amenable to some ideas and not to others.

Not wanting to derail the post,
Origins of Progesterone Therapy
RP says "During the last 60 years has been caused by an increased popularity of sunbathing, but during the same time there has been a great increase in the incidence of cancer of the prostate, which is a location that gets very little exposure to light"...

Any chance?

You are doing a great job and your Dad is only 70 and lucky to have you help him navigate his way through other approaches and particularly, allowing him to do so in his own good time, well done.
 
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charlie

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moss said:
post 100999 You are doing a great job and your Dad is only 70 and lucky to have you help him navigate his way through other approaches and particularly, allowing him to do so in his own good time, well done.
:1

:D
 
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Blossom

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moss said:
Blossom said:
post 100990
haidut said:
post 100987
Blossom said:
post 100984
haidut said:
post 100979
Blossom said:
post 100970 Ok great! I obviously would prefer he stop drinking but sometimes convincing a 70 year old man to change his ways can be challenging. It's great to have options for mitigating the damage in the meantime. He has made a lot of changes already so there is hope. Maybe if I present it as just a plan to try short term and he will then notice enough improvement that he will choose to stick with it long term. I'll keep you and the forum posted. Thanks again.

Vitamins B1 and B2 are also helpful as they are needed for the liver to be able to detoxify estrogens.
I've noticed many alcoholics receiving medical are routinely prescribed B1. Perhaps energin would be a good supplement for my Dad since it has the B1,B2 and B6 which sound valuable for his situation? It would certainly be convenient for him to take the b's he needs that way.

Yeah, a B complex like Energin is not a bad idea. It can also help reduce lactic acid due to the tumor.
Awesome! That's easy enough. I'm confident I can persuade him to add some supplements to help optimize his nutrition and hormones just because of the other changes he has made thus far. When he was first diagnosed the doctor told him his drinking and smoking would kill him quicker than the prostate cancer and he did manage to quit cigarettes. I'm hopeful with all of this information it will be just the motivation he needs to leave the alcohol alone. I think having hope that we can heal and feeling even small improvements is an excellent motivator. Thanks for your time, the many wonderful links and your input. :hattip
Great post.

Blossom, if I can get my father (who has BPH) to take Nettle Root (an aromatase blocker) there is hope....and not suggesting you do so with your father. He is 88 and goes through bouts of no drinking and is quite happy to do so. He is certainly the better for it in those periods and takes B vits as well. Sadly his wife is catabolic, drinks for her country and makes things problematic on so many levels.... they are amenable to some ideas and not to others.

Not wanting to derail the post,
Origins of Progesterone Therapy
RP says "During the last 60 years has been caused by an increased popularity of sunbathing, but during the same time there has been a great increase in the incidence of cancer of the prostate, which is a location that gets very little exposure to light"...

Any chance?

You are doing a great job and your Dad is only 70 and lucky to have you help him navigate his way through other approaches and particularly, allowing him to do so in his own good time, well done.
Thanks for the quote moss. My Dad has always been an avid outdoorsman and values a nice suntan! He used to even encourage me to sunbath back in the 80's. He has also had a basal cell carcinoma removed from his ear and oddly enough it was in a spot that sunlight could barely reach.
It's definitely a balancing act to be helpful to our parents while still respecting their boundaries and not getting too emotionally invested in the situation if they choose a different path than we would. I suppose in the end all we can do is love them and help in whatever way they will allow. You're father sounds fortunate to have you in his life as well and I'm sorry to hear of his wife's difficulties from the alcoholism.
Thanks for sharing about the nettle root. I know he's taking something herbal that he decided on through his own reading so I will check and see if it's nettle root. Another thing he has going for him is distaste for doctors. He likens them to nothing more than glorified auto mechanics (no offense to auto mechanics or doctors intended)!
 
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moss

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Another thing he has going for him is distaste for doctors. He likens them to nothing more than glorified auto mechanics (no offense to auto mechanics or doctors intended)![/quote]

Love it!
 
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