Tadalafil (Cialis) Is Aromatase Inhibitor And Anti-estrogenic

[satsumass]

Tadalafil improves lean mass and endothelial function in nonobese men with mild ED/LUTS: in vivo and in vitro characterization. - PubMed - NCBI

Interesting article! Cialis anti-estrogenic and seems to upregulate androgen receptors...

I understand we are generally anti-nitric oxide here. I do not totally understand the reasoning behind that, as from what I have heard there are a lot of benefits from enhancing eNOS at least and increasing NO in the blood stream and certain other tissues.

Interested in thoughts, experiences, etc.

Tadalafil improves lean mass and endothelial function in nonobese men with mild ED/LUTS: in vivo and in vitro characterization.
Aversa A1, Fittipaldi S2, Francomano D3, Bimonte VM4, Greco EA3,5, Crescioli C4, Di Luigi L4, Lenzi A3, Migliaccio S4.
Author information

Abstract
PURPOSE:
Phosphodiesterase type-5 inhibitor administration in diabetic men with erectile dysfunction (ED) is associated with reduced waist circumference. We evaluated potential effects of daily tadalafil administration on body composition and investigated its possible mechanism(s) of action in C2C12 skeletal muscle cells in vitro.

METHODS:
Forty-three men on stable caloric intake (mean age 48.5 ± 7; BMI 25.5 ± 0.9 kg/m2) complaining mild ED and/or low urinary tract symptoms (LUTS) were randomly assigned to receive tadalafil (TAD) 5 mg/daily (once-a-day=OAD-TAD; n = 23) or 20 mg on-demand (on-demand=OD-TAD; n = 20) for 2 months. Primary outcomes were variations of body composition measured by Dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry; secondary outcomes were ED/LUTS questionnaire scores along with hormone (testosterone, estradiol, insulin) and endothelial function (Endopat2000) variations.

RESULTS:
OAD-TAD increased abdominal lean mass (p < 0.01) that returned to baseline after 2 months withdrawal. LUTS scores improved (p<0.01) in OD-TAD while ED scores improved (p < 0.01) in both groups. We found significant improvements in endothelial function (p < 0.05) that directly correlated with serum insulin (p < 0.01; r = 0.3641) and inversely correlated with estradiol levels (p < 0.01; r = 0.3655) even when corrected for potential confounders. Exposure of C2C12 cells upon increasing tadalafil concentrations (10-7 to 10-6 M) increased total androgen receptor mRNA and protein expression as well as myogenin protein expression after 24 and 72 h (2.8 ± 0.4-fold and 1.4 ± 0.02-fold vs. control, respectively, p < 0.05).

CONCLUSIONS:
Daily tadalafil improved lean mass content in non-obese men probably via enhanced insulin secretion, estradiol reduction, and improvement of endothelial function in vivo. The in vitro increased myogenin and androgen receptor protein expression in skeletal muscle cells suggests a translational action of phosphodiesterase type-5 on this receptor.

 

[LukeL]

interesting thanks for posting

 

[ecstatichamster]

I think this is a garbage drug company financed study. Most similar studies are rubbish.

Funding This study was funded by MIUR Grants (grant number 2015XCR88M_008 to Prof. Antonio Aversa and 052013 to Prof. Silvia Migliaccio) and Ministry of Health Grant (grant number 00829 to Prof. Andrea Lenzi).


The effects were very small when you read the full study. It is indeed rubbish. Most will never read past the completely misleading abstract. This is shameful.

From another study

Antonio Aversa is a consultant for Pfizer, Lilly Inc. and Bayer Pharma.

 

[satsumass]

Can you copy/paste where you read the effects are small?

Understand there is a massive amount of bad science but presuming because it is a drug company financed study and that makes it rubbish without evidence is an ad hominem fallacy.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Can you copy/paste where you read the effects are small?

Understand there is a massive amount of bad science but presuming because it is a drug company financed study and that makes it rubbish without evidence is an ad hominem fallacy.

It isn't cuz I read the study. Honestly does this data show any result?

I see these all the time now. I recognize them because I do a lot of research. They are all worthless. Any study like this is worthless. There are 100 ways they bias the data in any event. the abstract gives away the game because the conclusion is pure nonsense.

But usually just reading the full study you see the abstract and title are a lie.

 

[paymanz]

Maybe NO is beneficial while its in blood streem and vasolidat the veins and arteries but once it enters the cells it prevents cell's respiration,and by which it even can cause cell's death.

 

[ecstatichamster]

The drug companies want us to believe that NO can prevent fibrosis. I'm not sure.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Maybe NO is beneficial while its in blood streem and vasolidat the veins and arteries but once it enters the cells it prevents cell's respiration,and by which it even can cause cell's death.

Isn't that the role of CO2!

 

[paymanz]

Isn't that the role of CO2!

Yes that is, a healthy body maintains that vasolidation function by co2...

Releasing NO is a defensive mechanism during stress and when we don't make enough co2.

 

[Ron J]

Is it possible to have both high NO(eNOS) and CO2?

 

[Nokoni]

It isn't cuz I read the study. Honestly does this data show any result?

View attachment 4541

I see these all the time now. I recognize them because I do a lot of research. They are all worthless. Any study like this is worthless. There are 100 ways they bias the data in any event. the abstract gives away the game because the conclusion is pure nonsense.

But usually just reading the full study you see the abstract and title are a lie.

You can argue they cooked the books. Wouldn't be the first time. But to argue that the reported results are negligible is nonsense. Lose an inch off the waist in 2 months? While gaining weight overall? And prostate symptoms hugely reduced? (At least the number is hugely reduced. Probably means symptoms hugely reduced too.) That would be a big deal to any man going through prostate/LUTS issues. Don't know what the notable change in insulin means but I'm guessing that's also good. Not to mention the well known "side effect" that every man (and his woman) wants. And all while doing nothing? Just take this little pill with your morning OJ? I'm thinking that's a pretty strong sign-me-up signal. Maybe there are other drawbacks that would suggest caution, but judging just from the data in the table you put in your post, I want it.

 

[joaquin]

How does Cialis differ from Viagra? If their mechanisms are similar why haven't we seen real world results and testimonials confirming the awesome results?

 

[Makrosky]

I have a friend who uses (abuses?) it regularly to stay harder longer and has no knowledge of biochemistry or medicine or whatever. And he says when he takes it he feels much better overall. I must say also that he looks younger since he takes it.

Go figure.

 

[Nokoni]

How does Cialis differ from Viagra? If their mechanisms are similar why haven't we seen real world results and testimonials confirming the awesome results?

Mostly half-life, 30-some hours for Cialis, maybe 1/4 that for Viagra. Also they affect the non-#5 PDEs somewhat differently. I was researching it because of dealing with prostate issues. Was treating with Defibron, with some success, but stumbled onto the Cialis effect on prostate just by accident, while researching something else. For that use case, the geezers (of whom I am one) almost uniformly rave about it, at least on the one review page I read. But note that if you see a doctor, Cialis is like the 3rd choice they try. And numbers one and two are horrible and nobody likes them. (I actually tried number two once, forget the name, prescribed for kidney stones, and it was ghastly. Retrograde ejaculation? Nah, that ain't happening ever again. Straight into the garbage. Kidney stones way more tolerable.) So your question is apt. Why are they hiding the good one and giving everything else first? My guess is that they are trying to hide it. Why would they try to hide it? Maybe because it's bad for business, meaning it's just too good for overall health. I had some Cialis way in the bottom of the bottom box so I dug it out. Expired in 2007, lol. Chopped it in half, took 10 mg. I'm on day three and man I feel really good. Better than I've felt in a very long time. Hope it keeps up. (On re-reading I see that I need to add, no pun intended, lol.)

 

[Frankdee20]

Would anyone vouch for buying the research chemical from Blue Sky ?

 

[Nokoni]

Would anyone vouch for buying the research chemical from Blue Sky ?

I can't vouch for them but that's a good price – 90 doses @ 10mg each for < $60. And it would be very easy to adjust dosing. I just ordered some couple days ago so I'm not on the market but I will certainly plan on giving them a try for my next order. Thanks.

 

[Frankdee20]

I can't vouch for them but that's a good price – 90 doses @ 10mg each for < $60. And it would be very easy to adjust dosing. I just ordered some couple days ago so I'm not on the market but I will certainly plan on giving them a try for my next order. Thanks.

I purchased that product before and I can attest that I did feel immediately androgenic and had boners… a lot of what skews things for me is the alcohol abuse

Just got off the phone with one of these mass produced TRT clinics and I knew all of my terminology, some people say just take the HRT

 

[Nokoni]

I purchased that product before and I can attest that I did feel immediately androgenic and had boners… a lot of what skews things for me is the alcohol abuse

Just got off the phone with one of these mass produced TRT clinics and I knew all of my terminology, some people say just take the HRT

Yeah I've had great results with it, most of it completely unexpected. Been dealing with urinary issues (I'm old, so that's just life), but saw somewhere (not here) that Cialis is prescribed for LUTS. So I gave it a try. And the first effect was just feeling good. Almost better than good. So I came here to see if there was any info here and found this thread. So I've gotten better mood, reduced LUTS, reduced BP, and, course, better boners. But here's the amazing part. It completely fixed my gut pain, which had been going on for a long time, was often debilitating, and came with alternating diarrhea and constipation. All gone, and within a few days. There's more going on with this stuff than just boners. I believe I've seen that PDE5 rises with aging (can't cite yet because I'm still sipping from the fire hose) and is involved with very, very many processes in the body. So PDE5 inhibition might very well restore more youthful, physiologic levels. And yeah, I am just starting to find the effects on the gut. Got 2 quotes so far (from Cyclic nucleotide signaling in intestinal epithelia (doi:10.1002/wsbm.1223)):
>"Loss of barrier integrity leads to colitis, systemic genotoxicity, and tumorigenesis, which is alleviated by cGMP."
And PDE5 inhibition should lead to higher cGMP.
>"Orally administered drugs that target either the receptors that regulate cyclic nucleotide levels in the cell (e.g., linaclotide136,137 that targets guanylyl cyclase C), or direct effectors of cyclic nucleotide action (e.g., sildenafil citrate that inhibits PDE5) may also result in alterations in fluid secretion, immune function or intestinal cell proliferation."
Long way to go yet but clearly tadalafil has GI effects. In my case, they were miraculous. And actually I think I've seen references to effects on liver function. At any rate, good luck.

 

[Frankdee20]

Yeah I've had great results with it, most of it completely unexpected. Been dealing with urinary issues (I'm old, so that's just life), but saw somewhere (not here) that Cialis is prescribed for LUTS. So I gave it a try. And the first effect was just feeling good. Almost better than good. So I came here to see if there was any info here and found this thread. So I've gotten better mood, reduced LUTS, reduced BP, and, course, better boners. But here's the amazing part. It completely fixed my gut pain, which had been going on for a long time, was often debilitating, and came with alternating diarrhea and constipation. All gone, and within a few days. There's more going on with this stuff than just boners. I believe I've seen that PDE5 rises with aging (can't cite yet because I'm still sipping from the fire hose) and is involved with very, very many processes in the body. So PDE5 inhibition might very well restore more youthful, physiologic levels. And yeah, I am just starting to find the effects on the gut. Got 2 quotes so far (from Cyclic nucleotide signaling in intestinal epithelia (doi:10.1002/wsbm.1223)):
>"Loss of barrier integrity leads to colitis, systemic genotoxicity, and tumorigenesis, which is alleviated by cGMP."
And PDE5 inhibition should lead to higher cGMP.
>"Orally administered drugs that target either the receptors that regulate cyclic nucleotide levels in the cell (e.g., linaclotide136,137 that targets guanylyl cyclase C), or direct effectors of cyclic nucleotide action (e.g., sildenafil citrate that inhibits PDE5) may also result in alterations in fluid secretion, immune function or intestinal cell proliferation."
Long way to go yet but clearly tadalafil has GI effects. In my case, they were miraculous. And actually I think I've seen references to effects on liver function. At any rate, good luck.

I definitely do believe in cialis but I was referring to Examastane…

 

[Nokoni]

I definitely do believe in cialis but I was referring to Examastane…

My bad.