Social Anxiety Linked To High Serotonin, Not Low

[haidut]

One by one, the arguments in favor of serotonin boosting for specific conditions are running out of steam. This study shows that people with social anxiety and phobia have too much serotonin, not too little. Also, the more serotonin they had the more anxious they felt. I wonder if the same claim can also be made for anxiety in general. Ray certainly seems to be in favor of high serotonin behind virtually all psychiatric conditions, and the "latest" science seems to support his views.

http://www.psypost.org/2015/06/individu ... ttle-35198

"...Previous studies have led researchers to believe that individuals with social anxiety disorder/ social phobia have too low levels of the neurotransmitter serotonin. A new study carried out at Uppsala University, however, shows that the situation is exactly the opposite. Individuals with social phobia make too much serotonin. The more serotonin they produce, the more anxious they are in social situations. Many people feel anxious if they have to speak in front of an audience or socialise with others. If the anxiety becomes a disability, it may mean that the person suffers from social phobia which is a psychiatric disorder. Social phobia is commonly medicated using SSRI compounds. These change the amount of the neurotransmitter serotonin in the brain. Based on previous studies, it was believed that individuals with social phobia had too little serotonin and that SSRIs increased the amount of available serotonin. In a new study published in the scientific journal JAMA Psychiatry, researchers from the Department of Psychology at Uppsala University show that individuals with social phobia make too much serotonin."

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article ... id=2319711
"...Conclusions and Relevance Neurotransmission in SAD is characterized by an overactive presynaptic serotonin system, with increased serotonin synthesis and transporter availability. Our findings could provide important new insights into the etiology of anxiety disorders."

 

[SaltGirl]

Sadly I think this will be ignored by the "general consensus" and they will continue to prescribe these dangerous drugs.

 

[pboy]

everyone has a heart and a brain, and both will tell you to never even step foot around any kind of medical ***t. So anyone going to doctors or taking drugs, its their own fault at the end of the day. The very nature of that business is serotonergic (helpless victim), I always say things about that and people cant let that ***t go...their bad

the bottom line to all health is grow a set of nuts and have faith, or you'll never overcome anything. Be independent and realize you control everything about yourself, not to say things are perfect over night, it can take years, but if you are making self empowered independent decisions and growing its tolerable and even joyful along the way. If you don't do that, you basically deserve what you get because of the signals you send

like I said also, its better to be real and angry at what is happening around you, then to be delusional and weak and to give any kind of credence to things that are undeserving

 

[jyb]

I like those studies a lot... Ability to socialise is a good marker of wellbeing and low stress so it's a reliable metric.

The conclusion should already have been obvious to doctors because drugs like Mirtazapine (not a SSRI) also widely prescribed for these anxiety problems have much less (actually, none) of the dangerous and well known side effects of the true SSRI.

 

[Vinero]

Anyone here that has experimented with tryptophan or 5-htp? What effects did you feel from it? I'm curious to know how high-serotonin actually feels.

 

[Anonymous]

Anyone here that has experimented with tryptophan or 5-htp? What effects did you feel from it? I'm curious to know how high-serotonin actually feels.

I
Tired all the time. You hate yourself and you hate the world. You give up on everything. You are extremely defensive and irritable. Just living on this planet is exhausting and miserable.

 

[Vinero]

Interesting. Makes me wonder how it's promoted as a precursur for the "happy hormone" everywhere. You would think people would have found out by now the stuff doesn't work and does exactly the opposite.

 

[Anonymous]

Also, you are extremely emotional, fearful. You care about nothing but at the same time everything bothers you. It's a miserable state. These meds are garbage. I didn't last long on the few I tried. I don't get it. My friend is on one and he's become so defensive and "edgy". He thinks it's confidence but it's really just insecurity hiding behind arrogance. He was a great kid, giving, kind, like-able. Some unfortunate events occurred in his life and he jumped on an SSRI. He's never been the same since. The low serotonin state is so beautiful, sharp, clear, loving, nd aware. I'm not usually one to suggest a conspiracy but conventional medicine is extremely sketchy. Now the FDA is trying to ban cyproheptadine? What is wrong with the world? Who cares if some harmless antihistamine is on the market?

 

[Vinero]

I full agree with everything you said. The few times I've been in a low serotonin state were beautiful, clear, aware, loving etc. It's like all your worries and insecurities vanish and the world seems a fun and nice place. I'm sorry that your friend has changed for the worse. Maybe one day he will realize these drugs aren't helping him.

 

[tara]

everyone has a heart and a brain, and both will tell you to never even step foot around any kind of medical s***. So anyone going to doctors or taking drugs, its their own fault at the end of the day. The very nature of that business is serotonergic (helpless victim), I always say things about that and people cant let that s*** go...their bad

the bottom line to all health is grow a set of nuts and have faith, or you'll never overcome anything. Be independent and realize you control everything about yourself, not to say things are perfect over night, it can take years, but if you are making self empowered independent decisions and growing its tolerable and even joyful along the way. If you don't do that, you basically deserve what you get because of the signals you send

like I said also, its better to be real and angry at what is happening around you, then to be delusional and weak and to give any kind of credence to things that are undeserving

I have a heart and a brain. Both of them tell me to be very grateful for some of the things our local medical establishment has done. Several of my family members have had their lives saved by it, as far as I can tell, in various ways, some more than once. I am not confident that I or my child would have survived childbirth without it - after 30+ hours, intermittent unconsciousness, extreme energy depletion, dehydration (threw up everything that went in), intermittent disappearance of fetal heartrate, etc, I was very happy with the successful medical intervention provided. Relying on faith and my own resources could well have left either or both of us dead.

I am not ignoring the many weaknesses in the system, and I no longer have much expectation that it can help me resolve my key chronic issues, but it also has some strengths. I don't think my view on this is delusional or weak. When you need help, it is rational to seek help.

Passing judgment on people as "serotonergic' or 'it's their own fault' if they go to doctors or use drugs is insulting.

I also think it does not align with Peat's stated views. He sometimes recommends people go to their doctors to for tests or prescriptions.

 

[pboy]

cool

if your spirit cant guide you in life you're effed, and you have to prove it can to ever be actually comfortable and happy living here, on a foundational level. If you're a broken piece of a machine..like what are you doing anyways. People have deviated SO far...so far, in this current age. I think normal human history would seem like a different species to many modern people. The first thing you ask yourself if something is wrong is what did I do to deserve this, what signs did I ignore, what against my feelings things did I engage in. This is proper. Going to a business is ridiculous. Theres always answers and guidance following your own compass. Heres the real truth of it. People with guilt want to avoid looking within or people that are living basically a lie on some level, play the victim, and go to a doctor or something. Its a slap to the creator. I don't know man, its not like you don't get advice and mingle with people and read stuff, but the vibe has to be of a certain type. Medical community is clearly not a worthy vibe at all, its disgusting. Its shameful actually to go to them and usually means one doesn't have the courage or some other factor to actually reflect in an internal way, the way of your spirit. The whole system is messed up in such a bad way I think people are too afraid to actually, or cant believe that, they are actually a complete thing themselves, and can follow their own feelings...like genuine feelings, not including what your parents or friends or coworkers or wherever would think, what you REALLY think...you. The system is about crafting machine parts who live in some cage of a reality and don't realize that on a higher level what most people are doing, nearly everyone, is just perpetrating and causing suffering and destruction on a large scale. They think everything is ok, so why not the doctor also...completely ignoring their design. No kid likes the doctor, but like everything else, they get trained. Its not that hard to realize
Ive been down and out and recovered without any medical anything, in fact the whole process that unfolded ended up being the most beautiful thing I could have imagined, and how much growth and intimate knowledge I have now is profound compared to what I thought possible in that amount of time. And its real, its not theory and doesn't involve poison

 

[tara]

That you have figured out how to recover without assistance from the medical establishment is great.

I think it is insulting to tell people who do use it that it is shameful to do so.

Personally, I value being alive and having my family members alive over whatever spirituality you think might have been the alternative.
Some physical malfunctions don't give us years to figure out. Sometimes you only have days or hours (or even minutes) to intervene.

 

[Anonymous]

everyone has a heart and a brain, and both will tell you to never even step foot around any kind of medical s***. So anyone going to doctors or taking drugs, its their own fault at the end of the day. The very nature of that business is serotonergic (helpless victim), I always say things about that and people cant let that s*** go...their bad

the bottom line to all health is grow a set of nuts and have faith, or you'll never overcome anything. Be independent and realize you control everything about yourself, not to say things are perfect over night, it can take years, but if you are making self empowered independent decisions and growing its tolerable and even joyful along the way. If you don't do that, you basically deserve what you get because of the signals you send

like I said also, its better to be real and angry at what is happening around you, then to be delusional and weak and to give any kind of credence to things that are undeserving

I have a heart and a brain. Both of them tell me to be very grateful for some of the things our local medical establishment has done. Several of my family members have had their lives saved by it, as far as I can tell, in various ways, some more than once. I am not confident that I or my child would have survived childbirth without it - after 30+ hours, intermittent unconsciousness, extreme energy depletion, dehydration (threw up everything that went in), intermittent disappearance of fetal heartrate, etc, I was very happy with the successful medical intervention provided. Relying on faith and my own resources could well have left either or both of us dead.

I am not ignoring the many weaknesses in the system, and I no longer have much expectation that it can help me resolve my key chronic issues, but it also has some strengths. I don't think my view on this is delusional or weak. When you need help, it is rational to seek help.

Passing judgment on people as "serotonergic' or 'it's their own fault' if they go to doctors or use drugs is insulting.

I also think it does not align with Peat's stated views. He sometimes recommends people go to their doctors to for tests or prescriptions.

Yes Tara, but the very people that are "saving" your family members are the people that created the illnesses in the first place. The medical community tells you how to eat to destroy your health and now they are the heroes when they prevent someone from dying? People confuse health to mean you are "not sick" and you just need to go to get a check up every so often. Meanwhile disease is manifesting while you are told everything is okay. The planet has provided the tools for us to thrive meanwhile we are constantly searching for a cure to every illness as if it is hidden in some vault. You know I love you Tara but come on.

 

[pboy]

I don't mean to call people shameful, I mean like..thats how the body interprets it, that's the signal sent, and then what it carries...if helpless to help itself and carrying something impure inside. If youre actively engaged in overcoming something yourself with a knowing that you're really doing it, it takes away any sense of shame and you can talk about it easily. The body knows it can help itself, when theres mistrust there and a sense of helplessness, theres a kink in the flow of how it should work and that manifests as a sense of shame. Its subtle, but most people have no real confidence, some people are ruthless and aggressive, or bitchy, but that's not real confidence. You have to be totally equipped and knowing yourself to have real confidence, the kind that only comes from direct experience and growth via your own compass...that's how it is for everyone in everything. Going to doctors for...if you're just doing something simple like an eye test or blood work or something, ok...but to go there to be cured of an illness or to take their advice and let them pillage you, basically constipates the whole way life and your spiritual growth is supposed to work, and leads to the perpetration of a ton of damage and suffering collaterally

just do a simple imagination excersize and imagine how the world would be if suddenly all medical pharma establishments closed. And people had to figure out their own problems, and never got cursed with all the names of 'conditions and diseases and genetic this or that'. It would suddenly be real, people would be humble, and people would quickly notice things like food, air quality, stressful sitaitons, and would quite simply know how to take care of themselves...basically nurturing themselves and their spirit, doing fun things or things that bring joy as part of that. And suddenly people would be connected on a higher level, realizing they are part of the planet and theres higher things working. The medical thing has such profound damage on a huge level its hard for many to comprehend. It severs people from real life

 

[tara]

Yes Tara, but the very people that are "saving" your family members are the people that created the illnesses in the first place. The medical community tells you how to eat to destroy your health and now they are the heroes when they prevent someone from dying? People confuse health to mean you are "not sick" and you just need to go to get a check up every so often. Meanwhile disease is manifesting while you are told everything is okay. The planet has provided the tools for us to thrive meanwhile we are constantly searching for a cure to every illness as if it is hidden in some vault. You know I love you Tara but come on.

I know that iatrogenic disease is common, but not all malfunctions are a result of bad medicine, and some of the ones I've seen probably weren't caused by medical establishment.
Damage and death from trauma, infections, and childbirth have been happening since long before modern medicine began.

 

[tara]

just do a simple imagination excersize and imagine how the world would be if suddenly all medical pharma establishments closed. And people had to figure out their own problems, and never got cursed with all the names of 'conditions and diseases and genetic this or that'. It would suddenly be real, people would be humble, and people would quickly notice things like food, air quality, stressful sitaitons, and would quite simply know how to take care of themselves...basically nurturing themselves and their spirit, doing fun things or things that bring joy as part of that. And suddenly people would be connected on a higher level, realizing they are part of the planet and theres higher things working. The medical thing has such profound damage on a huge level its hard for many to comprehend. It severs people from real life

I do believe there is damage done by the medical establishment. I also believe they get some things right.
If it disappeared overnight, I expect a great many people would die very quickly.

 

[tara]

Stress and degeneration have been around a lot longer and are more widespread than hospitals and pharmaceutical establishments.

 

[haidut]

If you are critically/acutely ill then being in the ER is probably the best option for survival. Most of the things ER doctors do are legit. Childbirth issues and complications would fall under that label. I know several ER doctors and most of them are remarkably Peaty in their attitudes, experimentalism, and do-no-harm goals.
Unfortunately, when it comes to chronic disease treatment modern medicine is abysmal. Even well-meaning doctors are close to useless. At this point I am not sure how much of that is due to excessive specialization and reductionist attitudes towards the organism and how much is simply a case of narcissistic personality disorder. All the specialist I have seen easily meat the diagnostic criteria of DSM V for psychopathy. PCP and family doctor are a bit better but only if they practice in smaller, more remote communities.
The only value I have seen in non-ER medical professionals is their experience from seeing thousands of patients and being able to recognize a symptom and perform differential diagnosis. The again, being diagnosed is arguably not very helpful if we assume the majority of problems are thyroid related. It just adds an extra mental burden you have to carry, which can often prevent you from making informed decisions based on information you found and your doctor refuses to consider. So, I guess one can say that you go to your doctor for diagnosis and for treatment to the library/Internet using your own aggregation of cells between the eyes.
If I ever end up in position of political power (God forbid) I would abolish all medical practice except ER and instead use the savings to establish nutrition as a better version of medicine. I think Peat said something similar except I think he said he wanted all organized medicine go away including ER.

 

[tara]

I agree that ER is good for saving lives, and chronic illnesses are often not well treated.
I and family have had some useful help from general practice at times, though.
I also think some elective surgery is well done and well worth it, and I was very glad to be in hospital for births. (Not to say this applies to everyone.)

One of my people was restored from dangerous hyponatremia over several days in a regular ward, after intake via ER. It might have been preventable at home, but probably not recoverable.

Many people don't have the time, interest, or resources to research for themselves, and the Internet can be a very confusing case. Even on our forum people seem to regularly go off the deep end by launching into radical changes or high doses of various things before they know what to look out for.

At this point I am not sure how much of that is due to excessive specialization and reductionist attitudes towards the organism and how much is simply a case of narcissistic personality disorder.

I think some of the attitudes are instilled or reinforced in them during training, possibly deliberately, but more likely by contagion from the the ones who already have the habits ingrained since their training. And as a consequence of their positions in the hierarchical system.

 

[pboy]

youre kind of missing the major point. If something like surgery is necessary and you are an innocent victim, and being cut open with knives and all is necessary, are you really ok with being alive in such a world? is it really benevolent? are you just a slave in a body postponing survival for no real grand meaning? That's what you're saying if you engage in things that are highly non appealing and terrifying, such as taking pills, getting shots, surgery, whatever...any kid knows right away. The thing about not having time, you always have time if you are committed. Life works with you, but if you never tried, that's something you would say. Courage is key, your soul having balls is the key (or whatever equiv for girls is). You never know life until you try, and you never know if its worth being here if you don't put it to the test. Its about signals you send and why. To me living life as an abandoned entity who has to be exposed to awful soul painful things just to survive for some unpredictable and potentially bad future is worthless, and I was never going to send that signal, ever, via taking certain actions