OK We So Know Prostaglandin D2 Is The Main Driver Behind Baldness. What Can We Do About It?

[dq139]

Yeah, probably. I remember reading a study a while ago that African-Americans have higher estrogen levels during puberty/adolescence than their counterparts. This was then attributed to higher neuromuscular function etc.

I don't think thats true. If it was then they would loose hair more than white people (which isn't the case) and wouldn't naturally be ripped...I think Africans have higher free testosterone levels and more 5ar with less estrogen than European and middle eastern Caucasian.

Also if only estrogen is responsible for DHT, then wouldn't fat kids during puberty be very well hung downstairs as opposed to lean healthy young men? This isn't the case tho. In fact the opposite is usually true. Estrogen I think makes 5ar ineffective in certain scenarios.

 

[ddjd]

I don't think so...I believe DHT is a sub-product of estrogen....

Please read this

DHT Is Estrogen "receptor" Antagonist

 

[Hairfedup]

I don't think thats true. If it was then they would loose hair more than white people (which isn't the case) and wouldn't naturally be ripped...I think Africans have higher free testosterone levels and more 5ar with less estrogen than European and middle eastern Caucasian.

Also if only estrogen is responsible for DHT, then wouldn't fat kids during puberty be very well hung downstairs as opposed to lean healthy young men? This isn't the case tho. In fact the opposite is usually true. Estrogen I think makes 5ar ineffective in certain scenarios.

I know what you're saying...that's why it doesn't actually make sense - but higher levels of estrogen have been reported from AA and West African descent populations...

 

[Hairfedup]

Please read this

DHT Is Estrogen "receptor" Antagonist

OK that's interesting but isn't the androgen hypothesis null if we believe that it is in fact PGD2 and I firmly believe?

 

[dq139]

I know what you're saying...that's why it doesn't actually make sense - but higher levels of estrogen have been reported from AA and West African descent populations...

I think with Africans as they age they get more aromatase enzyme and their high free testosterone starts converting into estrogen with age.

Semetic people like Mediterraneans & middle easterners have higher levels of estrogen and DHT than Africans and Aryan Northern europeans...they usually are hairy loud agitated passionate people loll..alot of Italians Greeks Turkish Lebanese Israeli etc. Loose their hair too. And theyre testosterone must be lower than AA and Aryan Euros because of their tendencies toward "dad bods" hairy and having body fat with age lol

 

[YourUniverse]

DHT opposes estrogen, what are you talking about...

What do you mean? Aspirin is a known anti-estrogen, anti-prostaglandin - seemingly a key cog in the war against hair loss. Read Ray's articles on aspirin (one is linked in my post).

Haidut said that since aspirin lowers estrogen and cortisol, that androgens would show a net increase in the long run, and it makes perfect sense, doesnt it?

If youre commenting on the part where I said "you dont want abnormally high DHT because its usually accompanied by excess estrogen", that was in response to @dq139 commenting that he had heard aspirin lowers DHT (obviously something virile young males dont want to happen). My response was a reassurance that the net response, from a hair loss and overall hormonal environment perspective, was a gain. I believe its fairly well documented that when estrogen is high (which aspirin counters), conversion of DHT increases to match the estrogen (as you pointed out), hence my comment about high DHT with high estrogen. Taking cheap, common estrogen-countering chemicals COULD be an effective therapy against hair loss

 

[Hairfedup]

I think with Africans as they age they get more aromatase enzyme and their high free testosterone starts converting into estrogen with age.

Semetic people like Mediterraneans & middle easterners have higher levels of estrogen and DHT than Africans and Aryan Northern europeans...they usually are hairy loud agitated passionate people loll..alot of Italians Greeks Turkish Lebanese Israeli etc. Loose their hair too. And theyre testosterone must be lower than AA and Aryan Euros because of their tendencies toward "dad bods" hairy and having body fat with age lol

Lol that's very interesting...is hairiness truly a sign of high estrogen/estrogen dominance? Why do extremely hairy men like Indian actors (Akshay Kumar, Anil Kapoor, Sunil Shetty etc) have such thick heads of hair well into their late 30s/40s..some of them still do. What makes being hairy truly estrogenic?

Btw there is no such thing as an 'Aryan Northern European'.

 

[dq139]

Lol that's very interesting...is hairiness truly a sign of high estrogen/estrogen dominance? Why do extremely hairy men like Indian actors (Akshay Kumar, Anil Kapoor, Sunil Shetty etc) have such thick heads of hair well into their late 30s/40s..some of them still do. What makes being hairy truly estrogenic?

Btw there is no such thing as an 'Aryan Northern European'.

Your right lol I just meant typical northern central & western Europeans...

Maybe some people have higher androgen receptors in their skin. But I notice that out of shape people with hairy shoulders stomach and back look like their low energy and stressed out.

Mediterranean & middle eastern people eat alot of phytoestrogens, goitrogens, foods with alot of lechtin...so it makes sense that they would get more stressed out as they age.

This is a complicated theory tho

 

[Hairfedup]

Your right lol I just meant typical northern central & western Europeans...

Maybe some people have higher androgen receptors in their skin. But I notice that out of shape people with hairy shoulders stomach and back look like their low energy and stressed out.

Mediterranean & middle eastern people eat alot of phytoestrogens, goitrogens, foods with alot of lechtin...so it makes sense that they would get more stressed out as they age.

This is a complicated theory tho

Yeah I absolutely agree in that Semitic/Med people have terrible diets and almost always go bald. Always. Lol. Its a theory I would like to further explore...what I don't understand is how the hairiest MF of all time Anil Kapoor had and still has an incredible head of hair, and so do a multitude of hairy bodied Indian actors.

 

[YourUniverse]

A common side effect for women who take steroids is hair growth, similarly for women post-menopause. I think testosterone/androgens make you hairier

 

[dq139]

Yeah I absolutely agree in that Semitic/Med people have terrible diets and almost always go bald. Always. Lol. Its a theory I would like to further explore...what I don't understand is how the hairiest MF of all time Anil Kapoor had and still has an incredible head of hair, and so do a multitude of hairy bodied Indian actors.

Only thing I could see is higher sensitivity to androgens in the skin

 

[Hairfedup]

Only thing I could see is higher sensitivity to androgens in the skin

Hmmm possibly, possibly.

A common side effect for women who take steroids is hair growth, similarly for women post-menopause. I think testosterone/androgens make you hairier

So testosterone makes the body hairier but estrogen dominance leads to hair loss?

 

[dq139]

Hmmm possibly, possibly.



So testosterone makes the body hairier but estrogen dominance leads to hair loss?

Testosterone itself I don't think makes u hairy. Dht and low estrogen gives u hairy arms legs pubes..but estrogen with the presence of raised Dht stress prolactin ect. Could give u hairy back shoulders **** stomach ect.

Basically too much aromatase enzyme makes Dht, LH & stress shoot up making u aggressive hairy short fused horny man boobs ect....roid rage basically lol

 

[nbznj]

it's actually been well studied that blacks have a higher activity in aromatase enzymes, so will be prone to higher e2 levels as they age

lifestyle also has an influence on SHBG independently of the race

some more details and a great bunch of references in this study: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/10.1210/jc.2009-2435

as of the hairiness and baldness, I'll always say that less inflammation will prevent hair fall, however there's no doubt that higher T and DHT (through aggressive androgen injection, and e2 in range using aromatase inhibitors) will make the body hairs grow faster in "masculine" zones. And higher e2 makes the hairs grow everywhere. Why do some people eat like trash and have high stress and body hair everywhere and a head full of hair, well I guess at some point we have to understand genetics will make a good size of anyone's traits. I tend to think it's always 50-50. If you have bad genetics and have the most perfect lifestyle you'll hardly have better hair/body hairs than the dude with great genetics who's half assing it. Children and grand children may be impacted more.

 

[nbznj]

The Real Reason Men Lose Their Hair

probably the best article ive read outside of peat world.

"DHT is mostly made from estrogen"

stopped reading there... this is much more balanced already: Men: Stop Thinking Your Hair Loss Is Due To High Testosterone

 

[Travis]

"DHT is mostly made from estrogen"

stopped reading there... this is much more balanced already: Men: Stop Thinking Your Hair Loss Is Due To High Testosterone

In the male, androgens outnumber estrogen about 200∶1. Dihydrotestosterone appears to have only one precursor, and that is testosterone: an overrated androgen (DHT is ~4× stronger). The reason exactly why the most active estrogen—or estradiol—is considered 'estrogen' proper while the second‐most‐active androgen is popularly known as the 'characteristic male sex hormone' is hard to understand, and probably has much to do with its history and its organ of discovery (chemical analysis of the testicles had likely been the seminal moment in androgen nomenclature).

I think prolactin is more responsible for the female phenotype, and is more variable in males than estrogen. However: it is estrogen which transcribes for the prolactin receptor, and you need both ligand and receptor to get 'manboobs' and/or visceral fat. We all have some prolactin receptors in these areas, some more than others, so keeping prolactin down by avoiding exorphins—and perhaps also by taking bromocriptine or tyrosine—might seem wise for those striving to maintain a 100% natural male phenotype. I think everyone here avoid grains, but exorphins can also be found in soy—in addition to genestein—and cow's milk; however, goat and sheep milk much reduced (~10%) opiate potential due to a few substitutions in their casein isoform. Goat cheese and beef appear to be the best animal foods, since: they are very low in ω−6 fatty acids, they have largely non‐immunogenic peptides, and they are practically absent of prolactin‐stimulating exorphins.

 

[dq139]

In the male, androgens outnumber estrogen about 200∶1. Dihydrotestosterone appears to have only one precursor, and that is testosterone: an overrated androgen (DHT is ~4× stronger). The reason exactly why the most active estrogen—or estradiol—is considered 'estrogen' proper while the second‐most‐active androgen is popularly known as the 'characteristic male sex hormone' is hard to understand, and probably has much to do with its history and its organ of discovery (chemical analysis of the testicles had likely been the seminal moment in androgen nomenclature).

I think prolactin is more responsible for the female phenotype, and is more variable in males than estrogen. However: it is estrogen which transcribes for the prolactin receptor, and you need both ligand and receptor to get 'manboobs' and/or visceral fat. We all have some prolactin receptors in these areas, some more than others, so keeping prolactin down by avoiding exorphins—and perhaps also by taking bromocriptine or tyrosine—might seem wise for those striving to maintain a 100% natural male phenotype. I think everyone here avoid grains, but exorphins can also be found in soy—in addition to genestein—and cow's milk; however, goat and sheep milk much reduced (~10%) opiate potential due to a few substitutions in their casein isoform. Goat cheese and beef appear to be the best animal foods, since: they are very low in ω−6 fatty acids, they have largely non‐immunogenic peptides, and they are practically absent of prolactin‐stimulating exorphins.

Would meyenburg non organic goat milk be safe to drink? Is it better than cows milk?

 

[nbznj]

I'd go for reduced fat goat milk if available. Organic seems a better option, and grass fed too.

This is a great topic that resonates with this one when it comes to milk: Exposure To Exogenous Estrogen Through Intake Of Commercial Milk Produced From Pregnant Cows

 

[dq139]

I'd go for reduced fat goat milk if available. Organic seems a better option, and grass fed too.

This is a great topic that resonates with this one when it comes to milk: Exposure To Exogenous Estrogen Through Intake Of Commercial Milk Produced From Pregnant Cows

My only option at the supermarket is meyenberg goat milk. I don't think its organic....should I go for organic 2 percent cow milk or the non organic goat milk?

 

[Travis]

Since the steroids in milk are identical to ours, you might expect the body to downregulate production of the corresponding endogenous steroids. I think this would would work for the ones having a strong negative‐feedback control, but this control obviously fails when it comes to the androstenedione—which can cause acne. This doesn't happen in everybody, and would of course depend on the dose and circulating levels of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG). But since goat milk has a fatty acid profile only equaled by that of coconut, beef, and chocolate, it could be worth consuming despite the steroids it contains (and it has a high mineral content besides). I used to eat about ¹⁄₂ # per day of either goat or cow cheese, and I think you'd be able to tell the difference if you pay attention.

Would meyenburg non organic goat milk be safe to drink? Is it better than cows milk?

If I had to make the choice, I'd take the non‐organic goat milk.