OK We So Know Prostaglandin D2 Is The Main Driver Behind Baldness. What Can We Do About It?

[nbznj]

I don’t think Vitamin E is going to stop prostaglandin D2 production right? I think Vitamin E just prevents polyunsaturated fatty acid lipid peroxidation chain reactions.

yes thank you for giving some context; my reasoning behind vitamin E is it's going to prevent the oxidizing reactions. If you're consciously eating those pro-inflammatory fats then E will help. The best way remains avoiding nutrient-void PUFAs.

This might not be a peaty thing, but the more I think of it, the less I see what's actually so wrong about some nutrient rich nuts if they are a minimal part of the diet. They actually may deliver more than they hurt.

 

[Travis]

Its far too large to be absorbed systemically from topical application. And by the way, you should probably learn to spell correctly if you want people to take you seriously. (And actually reading a few studies on cyclosporine could be helpful.)

 

[eddiem991]

Its far too large to be absorbed systemically from topical application. And by the way, you should probably learn to spell correctly if you want people to take you seriously. (And actually reading a few studies on cyclosporine could be helpful.)

I have heard stories of peoples life being destroyed experimenting with cyclosporine and just think you should be more careful what you recommend people.

 

[Luckytype]

Its far too large to be absorbed systemically from topical application. And by the way, you should probably learn to spell correctly if you want people to take you seriously. (And actually reading a few studies on cyclosporine could be helpful.)

I think the issue he is trying to present is how reasonable and how wise is it to supress your immune system for the purpose of growing hair back. Furthermore is the question of how sustainable is it both in a health sense and financially.

 

[Travis]

I have heard stories of peoples life being destroyed experimenting with cyclosporine and just think you should be more careful what you recommend people.

Where have I recommended actually ingesting it? could you link us to that? And who's 'lives have been destroyed' by cyclosporine? (I am really doubting that.)

 

[eddiem991]

Where have I recommended actually ingesting it? could you link us to that? And who's 'lives have been destroyed' by cyclosporine? (I am really doubting that.)

I remember reading on some forum about a man taking cyclosporine and messing up his immune system to the degree of terminally ill cancer patients.
You wrote: So I think avoiding ω−6 fatty acids and immunogenic proteins would be a good start, and perhaps try Ramatroban™ or cyclosporine.

 

[Travis]

I remember reading on some forum about a man taking cyclosporine and messing up his immune system to the degree of terminally ill cancer patients.

So it went from 'stories' plural to just one story, and on 'some forum' that you had apparently forgot the name of?

It inhibits cytokine formation, which has little to do with cancer. Did you mean to say 'terminally irradiated chemotherapy patient?' In that case, you're sentence might have sounded almost plausible.

You wrote: So I think avoiding ω−6 fatty acids and immunogenic proteins would be a good start, and perhaps try Ramatroban™ or cyclosporine.

Topical application was of course implied with that sentence.

 

[Mhouse]

Also, Travis has quite a few earlier posts already on cyclosporine that go into a lot more detail on its potential topical use.

 

[eddiem991]

Topical application was of course implied with that sentence.

Okay whatever. There are alot of desparate guys out there who may take hasty decisions. Just wanted to point that out for them.

 

[Hairfedup]

All of the 1- and 2-series prostaglandins are made from two dietary fatty acids: linoleic acid and γ-linoleinic acid. These are ω−6 fatty acids, and in the absence of these the body produces safer 3-series prostaglandins from eicosapentaenoic acid. I think having the 3-series prostaglandins is the natural state of affairs for humans as we historically hadn't eaten very many grains, seeds, and nuts (besides coconut).

Alternatively you try Ramatroban™, a drug—now generic—which blocks the prostaglandin D₂ receptor (a.k.a. GPR44, PR₂, CRTH2; it actually has three separate names, given by three separate scientific subfields).

Cyclosporine has been shown to regrow hair, and it likely does so at least partially by inhibiting prostaglandin D₂ formation (lowers cytokines). But just this might not be enough, as cyclosporine also increases transforming growth factor bets (TGFβ); this is involved in hair cycle signalling and could be what is providing the initial 'regrowth' signal. More investigation is needed in the area, and not even renowned hair follicle scientist Rauf Paus has a clue about how the hair growth cycle is controlled (in his own words).

Valerie Randall had shown that androgens stimulate hair growth directly at the follicle, yet they would raise both cortisol and interferon-γ when taken internally. Both the adrenals and the thymus have androgen receptors and are sexually differentiated to a degree, giving human males a more dominant TH2 pattern and more cortisol. It makes sense that males should produce more cortisol, but the change in immune parameters is more difficult to understand; perhaps that has something to do with pregnancy (or their lack of it).

Giron-Gonzalez, J. A. "Consistent production of a higher TH1: TH2 cytokine ratio by stimulated T cells in men compared with women." European journal of endocrinology (2000)​

So I think avoiding ω−6 fatty acids and immunogenic proteins would be a good start, and perhaps try Ramatroban™ or cyclosporine.

As usual, Travis, thank you. Always coming through with the gold lol. Its infuriating that no matter how many times you tell people 'topically there is no systematic effect' and that you are NOT suggesting to ingest cyclosporine, the usual nonsense starts. Unbelievable. Thanks for again for coming through though.

What are your thoughts on Setipiprant (both orally and topically) and Fevipiprant which I believe might be released by 2020.

 

[Hairfedup]

For people reading this thread do not try cyclosporine, it's a strong immune suppresant and can f*ck you up badly.

How many times is it gonna take for y'all to understand that TOPICALLY there are no SYSTEMATIC side-effects. Getting your hands on cyclo and then mixing it correctly and applying correctly is such a tedious and difficult process but anecdotal evidence from randoms on the internet is driving people to hysteria. Yes if you ingest it it will eff ya whole sh t up. forreal. but no one is suggesting that.

 

[Hairfedup]

The question has a series of different answers here though. Each person responds to the flux of stress(and each type of stress, real or perceived) differently.

The reality of your situation is until we see some of your bloodwork or labs we really honestly have no idea where to begin short of giving the foundational nutrition advice that a majority of us have to adhere to to see progress short of further intervention.

If you search the forum and the net, youll find a series of things that bring pgd2 into play as well as a series of things that can downregulate it. Some of these are attainable but require commitment and dedication, some of these may be a little out of reach or seem "unreasonable" to many people.

Yeah I'm pretty committed, we'll have to see if I can stay committed lol.

 

[Luckytype]

Yeah I'm pretty committed, we'll have to see if I can stay committed lol.

Patience is much needed. I caught my shed immediately, finally after 2 years have a direction to go and im anticipating a year or so recovery at least. You will need more time but do the right things and have patience

 

[Hairfedup]

Patience is much needed. I caught my shed immediately, finally after 2 years have a direction to go and im anticipating a year or so recovery at least. You will need more time but do the right things and have patience

Yeah man..I've been trying for years but I feel like its all coming together now. We gon make it bruh

 

[mayweatherking]

The better my thyroid function and the more T & DHT and libido I get, the more hair I shed and it never comes back. When I was even more hypothyroid and using estrogen on my scalp I had a whole norwood more hair than I do now.

I love contrarian endocrinology as much as the next guy, but I'm afraid the other side has way more evidence in their favor. If hair loss was caused by deficiency in androgens then I'd already be on roids now and regrowing hair - but the unfortunate fact is that hair that is prone to balding is at complete odds with general health in the male body, and that's my observation as someone who has been battling hair loss for 5 years and still somewhere between a NW2 and 2.5. I started losing my hair at 19, for what it's worth, now 25, and I've used so many things from antiandrogens and progesterone and estradiol, so I have a very good idea of what works and what doesn't.

Aromasin + DHT will murder your hair. Don't say I didn't warn you. I didn't believe the mainstream either when I first started balding. Thought I could hack it with diet. But the worse it gets, the more desperate you become and start using the same things that the mainstream. Or just flat out admit that nothing that you do works, and give up. That's my experience, and I've yet to see someone prove me wrong with a success story based on alternate hair loss theories.

The only alternative treatment I found useful that the mainstream typically discards is red light (particularly 830 & 760 nm like the Infrared Light Mini). It helps eliminate some of the inflammation when shined at the scalp and helped me regrow some hair. But it only works up to a point where it's overcome by DHT again.

i agree.. light seems to be extremely powerful, if not the most powerful. however, i think ray all ready talks about this a lot. i'm starting to think of light as an essential nutrient, instead of only a supplement like aspirin that people may or may not use.. especially with hair loss. it is very, very powerful at suppressing cortisol... moreso than basically everything maybe outside of thyroid, but thyroid is really complicated and can be dangerous.. especially if you are all ready in a very pro cortisol state like hair loss. ray talks about the dangers of darkness and how it increases TSH and can cause many, many problems.

i think the problems happen when you eat a ton, or use a bunch of supplements, and your cortisol isn't suppressed, they are going down the wrong pathways, and maybe you are just increasing the negative loop and increasing cortisol even more in the end... if you combine say, pregnenelone and light (like go outside most of the day) and gelatin and hit all your protein/calcium/magnesium/potassium #goals, what would happen, cortisol is suppressed and then the pregenenelone is able to be converted down all the right pathways.

but if you don't suppress the cortisol, the pregenenlone is going down the wrong path. i don't know what the path is though.

i don't know what is causing the loss exactly, it seems to be stress in the body, like your muscles in your head tighten, you can probably feel it around the sides of the scalp.

 

[Luckytype]

I think the issue is there isnt just ONE be all end all reason men lose their hair. There cant be, its just the result is the same. So in the case of better thyroid and androgen health, its probably something else that thyroid(the bodys gas pedal) makes happen faster

 

[Travis]

As usual, Travis, thank you. Always coming through with the gold lol. Its infuriating that no matter how many times you tell people 'topically there is no systematic effect' and that you are NOT suggesting to ingest cyclosporine, the usual nonsense starts. Unbelievable. Thanks for again for coming through though.

What are your thoughts on Setipiprant (both orally and topically) and Fevipiprant which I believe might be released by 2020.

Do you know the two molecules Setipiprant™ was designed after? I'll tell you: Setipiprant™ was designed based on the molecular structure of Ramatroban™ and indomethacin. Ramatroban™ is a drug which has been used to block the prostaglandin D₂ receptor for decades, and is now generic (unpatented). Indothemethcin is of course the well‐known cyclooxygenase inhibitor which is also known to also have intermediate affinity for the prostaglandin D₂ receptor—yes, the same receptor thought by Louis Garza to be responsible for hair loss and not the other prostaglandin D₂ receptor.

So people just need to try Ramatroban™. If Setipiprant™ were to work, then Ramatroban™ would work nearly just as well (based on binding affinity). It also has a decades‐long track record of safety; it has has an extensive history in Japan for treating asthma.

 

[Hairfedup]

Do you know the two molecules Setipiprant™ was designed after? I'll tell you: Setipiprant™ was designed based on the molecular structure of Ramatroban™ and indomethacin. Ramatroban™ is a drug which has been used to block the prostaglandin D₂ receptor for decades, and is now generic (unpatented). Indothemethcin is of course the well‐known cyclooxygenase inhibitor which is also known to also have intermediate affinity for the prostaglandin D₂ receptor—yes, the same receptor thought by Louis Garza to be responsible for hair loss and not the other prostaglandin D₂ receptor.

So people just need to try Ramatroban™. If Setipiprant™ were to work, then Ramatroban™ would work nearly just as well (based on binding affinity). It also has a decades‐long track record of safety; it has has an extensive history in Japan for treating asthma.

Wow I did not know that. Ramatroban is simple enough to get hold of too. Will have to try it if I can't get cyclosporine...think I might just be able to.

edit: ramatroban is not that easy haha.

 

[raypeatclips]

As usual, Travis, thank you. Always coming through with the gold lol. Its infuriating that no matter how many times you tell people 'topically there is no systematic effect' and that you are NOT suggesting to ingest cyclosporine, the usual nonsense starts. Unbelievable. Thanks for again for coming through though.

What are your thoughts on Setipiprant (both orally and topically) and Fevipiprant which I believe might be released by 2020.

Anything that's going on your skin is going in your body.

 

[ddjd]

Aromasin isn't that bad. It has anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects.

It's better than Arimidex!!