Is fat oxidation only a negative if its at the expense of sugar oxidation?

[Dr. B]

It seems like some or maybe even all pro metabolic substances boost both fat and sugar oxidation? For example thyroid and caffeine boost both? If your metabolism is truly going up wouldn’t you be oxidizing more sugar and fat? Like somebody mentioned babies are supposedly in a keto state despite receiving tons of sugars because their metabolism is supposedly that high?

So if a substance or condition is boosting fat oxidation but lowering sugar oxidation, or boosting sugar oxidation but lowering fat oxidation, would such a substance be anti metabolic? The general stressful state/low metabolism seems to be increase in fat oxidation but decrease in sugar oxidation? And some substances seem to boost fat or sugar oxidation but at the expense of the other like niacinamide.

Yet something like thyroid and caffeine actually increase oxidation of both.

 

[mostlylurking]

If your fat is polyunsaturated because you've been eating pufa over the past several years, then it's toxic to burn. If you have free fatty acids elevated in your blood then this will keep your cells from being able to burn sugar (The Randle Cycle).

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

Lactate vs. CO2 in wounds, sickness, and aging; the other approach to cancer

Ray Peat

raypeat.com

 

[DrJ]

I think muscles burning fat when at rest is fine as that's what they seem to prefer in the resting state. I like to think of muscles as safe "fat sinks" which get fatty acids out of the blood and allow more energetic tissues to burn sugar, and this is why having bigger muscles is good for health.

But otherwise I think excess fat over that burned by resting muscles is best to be glucuronidated out of the body, particularly if it's PUFA. Sugar burning is better for producing carbon dioxide for vasodilation and supporting better blood flow and higher metabolism, as well as pulling calcium out of the cells.

 

[Dr. B]

I think muscles burning fat when at rest is fine as that's what they seem to prefer in the resting state. I like to think of muscles as safe "fat sinks" which get fatty acids out of the blood and allow more energetic tissues to burn sugar, and this is why having bigger muscles is good for health.

But otherwise I think excess fat over that burned by resting muscles is best to be glucuronidated out of the body, particularly if it's PUFA. Sugar burning is better for producing carbon dioxide for vasodilation and supporting better blood flow and higher metabolism, as well as pulling calcium out of the cells.

What is sugar doing to the calcium? Supposedly fructose/sugar actually helps excrete phosphate did you hear of this?

Carbon dioxide from what you described seems to have some functions like nitric oxide?

So with muscles, is it the bigger the better? Or are there issues with pro bodybuilder sized muscles. Also are organs considered muscles? I think someone said the scrotum or penis or both are muscles...?

 

[username]

What is sugar doing to the calcium? Supposedly fructose/sugar actually helps excrete phosphate did you hear of this?

Carbon dioxide from what you described seems to have some functions like nitric oxide?

So with muscles, is it the bigger the better? Or are there issues with pro bodybuilder sized muscles. Also are organs considered muscles? I think someone said the scrotum or penis or both are muscles...?

In regards to pro bodybuilder sized muscles... I don't think you need to worry. They are all on crazy amounts of steroids. You would have to be an absolute freak of nature to even appears in the pro body builder world without taking steroids. Unless you are in the natty competitions... natty=natural... they don't compare to those on steroids and yet they are somewhat freaks anyways...

 

[DrJ]

Sugar oxidation creates carbon dioxide which is a weak acid and pulls positive ions out of the cell.

From here: Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

"Besides binding with the cytoplasm, the carbon dioxide can be changed into carbonic acid, by chemically combining with water. Carbonic acid is hydrophilic, and so it quickly leaves the cell, taking with it some of the oppositely charged ions, such as calcium and sodium. The formation of carbonic acid, which is constantly streaming out of the respiring cell, causes some water and some positively ionized metals to leave the cell, in an "active" process, that doesn't require any mysterious pumps."

Big natty muscles are good. Roided out muscles are not.

 

[Dr. B]

Sugar oxidation creates carbon dioxide which is a weak acid and pulls positive ions out of the cell.

From here: Water: swelling, tension, pain, fatigue, aging

"Besides binding with the cytoplasm, the carbon dioxide can be changed into carbonic acid, by chemically combining with water. Carbonic acid is hydrophilic, and so it quickly leaves the cell, taking with it some of the oppositely charged ions, such as calcium and sodium. The formation of carbonic acid, which is constantly streaming out of the respiring cell, causes some water and some positively ionized metals to leave the cell, in an "active" process, that doesn't require any mysterious pumps."

Big natty muscles are good. Roided out muscles are not.

Dont a few substances like caffeine and thyroid boost both sugar and fat oxidation. Its the low metabolic state which raises fat oxidation but reduces sugar oxidation hence the high blood sugars and other issues?
And there are some substances like niacinamide and maybe aspirin that boost sugar oxidation but reduce fat oxidation. Is this desirable? Those things seem to have a catabolic effect when ive tried them?

 

[DrJ]

Dont a few substances like caffeine and thyroid boost both sugar and fat oxidation. Its the low metabolic state which raises fat oxidation but reduces sugar oxidation hence the high blood sugars and other issues?
And there are some substances like niacinamide and maybe aspirin that boost sugar oxidation but reduce fat oxidation. Is this desirable? Those things seem to have a catabolic effect when ive tried them?

Fatty acids block sugar oxidation so high fatty acids (stress) is literally the low metabolic state which self-perpetuates but likewise sugar oxidation also self-perpetuates if you can get it going. I thing those things can be drsirable if you support it with large amounts of carbs and nutrients to not trigger adrenaline or cortisol. So primarily ridiculous amounts of fruit and not nutritionally void sugars like Mexican coke. But you have people on here treating those substances like they are a magic bullet but really they must be used prudently.