I Went To A TCM Herbalist Doctor And Was Told Of Taking Too Much Iodine That Resulted To My Symptoms

[Giraffe]

Maybe i have an autoimmune thyroiditis/hashimoto/

Chronic high iodine intake can cause thyroiditis. Ray Peat does not believe in "autoimmune" thyroiditis. He says, "most of the autoimmune antibodies are part of the recovery process."

TSH in itself is inflammatory. You want to get TSH very low.

I just hope we have T3 and NDT in my country so i have other option.

If your liver function is good, a T4 supplement might be all you need. How were you doing on T4 only?

HD: Ok. You‘re saying it is reasonable to assume that thyroxin in its own right will be the treatment of choice for people with Hashimoto ?
RP: Well, yeah. Especially in men. But since women are the main people who have Hashimoto, it‘s very likely to bring on symptoms. It‘s very reasonable to try it. But as soon as they start getting symptoms of worse hypothyroidism, then it‘s time to give them the complete thyroid hormone.

Hashimoto’s, Antibodies, Temperature and Pulse- KMUD, 2013-11-15

Please listen to this interview or read the transcript.

If T4 only doesn't work for you, try to get T3 or a product that contains both T4 and T3. Either import it yourself or ask a pharmacist to import it for you. (You might need a prescription for the pharmacist.)

.....

Actually I wonder if a good diet and avoiding excessive iodine would be enough to solve your problems.

 

[HealthisWealth]

I am a TCV(veterinary)M practitioner and teach TCVM to veterinarians. My mentor, a 4th generation TCM practitioner from China, says that TCVM / TCM traditionally is practiced separately. You are taught all of the branches, Acupuncture, Herbals, Tui-Na and are slotted based on your personal "knack" to practice just one of those at a time. It is not so much the case today, especially not in the west. So your TCM doctor may just be old school, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Have you mentioned what your TCM diagnosis is? Sounds like some pathological Heat with Wind maybe. What is your TCM constitution? Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water? If you can tell me I may be able to offer some suggestions.

TCM is fun to work with as a western trained doctor. It reminds me to look at the individual as a System and not as a fist full of targets to treat.

Hi sorry for the very late reply. The herbalist can not communicate in a tcm-western approach so i looked for western trained first and tcm trained second.

The new tcm doctor told me "phlegm misting the heart"

 

[Agent207]

The problem I think is to take iodine without selenium.

 

[HealthisWealth]

The problem I think is to take iodine without selenium.

Can you elaborate?

 

[pboy]

what has your diet been like since first having the problem (around the time you had the seaweed/chlorella I'm assuming). Thyroid stuff can take a long time but doesn't have to, it depends how far off in a direction you went, if you only slightly went off for a few days theres no reason it would have to take many months to recover from

 

[Makrosky]

The problem I think is to take iodine without selenium.

I don't think it's possible to get iodine without selenium in natural foods. Is it ? All foods containing iodine, contanin some selenium as well.

And yes, extra selenium is needed if you get extra iodine otherwise you can damage your thyroid.

 

[Pet Peeve]

The new tcm doctor told me "phlegm misting the heart"

"we may be able to link some of the TCM concepts to modern interpretations. Thus, for example, the condition of atherosclerosis, where plaques that include fatty materials (e.g., cholesterol and lipoproteins) coat the arteries, might be one case of phlegm-mist affecting the orifices"

from: What is Phlegm-Mist Affecting the Orifices of the Heart?

I would definitely try activated charcoal (and k2 maybe if calcium deposits)

(Also not that this diagnosis indicates mental illness or distress in TCM)

Here's a description of kelp in TCM terms: Kun Bu - 昆布 - Thallus Eckloniae - Chinese Herbs - American Dragon - Dr Joel Penner OMD, LAc

It's cooling, but not sure what would counteract it

 

[Makrosky]

I think Ray is not right in the iodine issues btw.

 

[HealthisWealth]

what has your diet been like since first having the problem (around the time you had the seaweed/chlorella I'm assuming). Thyroid stuff can take a long time but doesn't have to, it depends how far off in a direction you went, if you only slightly went off for a few days theres no reason it would have to take many months to recover from

Last end of march to may i did improve with the herbs given by the herbalist. First to resolve was the chest/heart tightness. 2nd to resolve but the longest was the inside head tremors. But right now the head tremors came back and if there was a sudden sound my ears twitch or inside my ears have some kind of pressure after some sudden sound. And also when i took t4 again why do i feel cold. This was the reason i stop taking t4 when i learned about peat.

The herbalist also told me last march that i have a "small goiter" But around august i had an ultrasound and its normal. So im thinking what the herbalist mean of small goiter in tcm but in ultrasound was normal. If i have really have a goiter i doubt that can be healed from march to july of taking herbs but i just dont know. Should have ultrasound last march instead of just believing the herbalist.

The reason i went for ultrasound last august because when i touch around my neck i could feel something aint right so i tried to "crack" it thinking thats the goiter. Its around the cricoid area. There is no sound and no pain when crack and it feels like pulverized eggshell or little salt feeling. I did crack till there is no more to crack in 2weeks. I became alarm when head pulse/tremors came back. The current symptoms is like my throat and on top of nose and ears there is some pulse/ pressure.

By the way this is the prescription of the old school herbalist. On the second paragraph there is character that resembles T4. Its a herb that resembles a white tiny pebbles. That is the herb the herbalist told me will help my chest tightness/fast pulse rate. The first time i went to him that herb is not included but the second visit after hold my pulse he figured it out what happening to me and undertood my symptoms. He cant speak the local language so he demostrated what im feeling. From march to april that white pebble was included in the herb mixture.

 

[HealthisWealth]

"we may be able to link some of the TCM concepts to modern interpretations. Thus, for example, the condition of atherosclerosis, where plaques that include fatty materials (e.g., cholesterol and lipoproteins) coat the arteries, might be one case of phlegm-mist affecting the orifices"

from: What is Phlegm-Mist Affecting the Orifices of the Heart?

I would definitely try activated charcoal (and k2 maybe if calcium deposits)

(Also not that this diagnosis indicates mental illness or distress in TCM)

Here's a description of kelp in TCM terms: Kun Bu - 昆布 - Thallus Eckloniae - Chinese Herbs - American Dragon - Dr Joel Penner OMD, LAc

It's cooling, but not sure what would counteract it

Hi thanks for that link.

You mean calcium deposits around the heart? What medical test i need to confirm calcium deposits?

The symptoms im having wants me to go to a psychiatrist but i dont want it to be treated using benzo. Really want to find the cause.

And i was told many times its more physiological that is affecting my pyschological.

You mean by kelp maybe can treat phelgm misting the heart?

 

[HealthisWealth]

I think Ray is not right in the iodine issues btw.

hi makrosky. What is your thought about iodine?

 

[Makrosky]

hi makrosky. What is your thought about iodine?

I think there's great potential to it. It's not mainstream and not well researched so only a few people talk about it on mainstream, like Dr. Brownstein and Flechas, etc..

I've used it in the past with very good results. But it's difficult to use. You also get detox reactions. I think if it would be well understood could serve as a thyroid hormone surrogate. But I think there's much more to it. Peat says it's toxic, react with PUFAS, etc... but I have the feeling that he says that because he never had to use it because he always had access to NDT or synthetic T3/T4.

 

[papaya]

I think there's great potential to it. It's not mainstream and not well researched so only a few people talk about it on mainstream, like Dr. Brownstein and Flechas, etc..

I've used it in the past with very good results. But it's difficult to use. You also get detox reactions. I think if it would be well understood could serve as a thyroid hormone surrogate. But I think there's much more to it. Peat says it's toxic, react with PUFAS, etc... but I have the feeling that he says that because he never had to use it because he always had access to NDT or synthetic T3/T4.

i love iodine! it's my favorite supplement. i wonder if after clearing pufas & eating fat free ray peat would approve of iodine?

 

[Fractality]

I think there's great potential to it. It's not mainstream and not well researched so only a few people talk about it on mainstream, like Dr. Brownstein and Flechas, etc..

I've used it in the past with very good results. But it's difficult to use. You also get detox reactions. I think if it would be well understood could serve as a thyroid hormone surrogate. But I think there's much more to it. Peat says it's toxic, react with PUFAS, etc... but I have the feeling that he says that because he never had to use it because he always had access to NDT or synthetic T3/T4.

I have a couple bottles of Lugol's but never got into a habit of taking it; especially after reading Ray's cautionary suggestion about iodine. I've considered using it as a mouthwash though.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Hi thanks for that link.

You mean calcium deposits around the heart? What medical test i need to confirm calcium deposits?

The symptoms im having wants me to go to a psychiatrist but i dont want it to be treated using benzo. Really want to find the cause.

And i was told many times its more physiological that is affecting my pyschological.

You mean by kelp maybe can treat phelgm misting the heart?

Kelp is like an iodine supplement, you probably shouldn't take it.

If you have phlegm misting the heart then that translates to atherosclerosis according to the link provided. Atherosclerosis is a buildup of fats in the cardiovascular system which progresses to calcium buildup. This has been linked to alzheimers disease and according to TCM leads to mental problems. Search the forum for atherosclerosis, e.g. What is the Peat approach to atherosclerosis?

 

[Makrosky]

i love iodine! it's my favorite supplement. i wonder if after clearing pufas & eating fat free ray peat would approve of iodine?

Don't expect Ray to approve everything you want to do in your life. If you like iodine, have read about the risks, have read A LOT about the cofactors needed, the detox reactions, the difference between Lugol and SSKI, etc. and also understand about what happens when you increase metabolism (need more calories, more micronutrients, etc.) then I think you can experiment with it ? And get to your own conclusions.

Why do you say it's your favorite ? Which benefits do you see when using it ?

 

[Makrosky]

I have a couple bottles of Lugol's but never got into a habit of taking it; especially after reading Ray's cautionary suggestion about iodine. I've considered using it as a mouthwash though.

I don't advocate to use Iodine to anyone. I'm just saying what I think about it. I never heard about Lugol used as a mouthwash. Lugol is harsh.

If you still want to use it. One thing you can do is take a single drop and see what happens. Temperature? Pulse? Cold extremities? And then use this info to get a better insight on what's happening in your body. If you get the same benefits you get from NDT or synthetic T3/T4 then you have to evaluate if it's worth the risks.

 

[papaya]

Don't expect Ray to approve everything you want to do in your life. If you like iodine, have read about the risks, have read A LOT about the cofactors needed, the detox reactions, the difference between Lugol and SSKI, etc. and also understand about what happens when you increase metabolism (need more calories, more micronutrients, etc.) then I think you can experiment with it ? And get to your own conclusions.

Why do you say it's your favorite ? Which benefits do you see when using it ?

it warms me & gives me energy. it was by far my fave supp. after the earthquake in japan iodoral was sold out for a long time & then when i got my new bottles i did notice a big difference from the old batches(i didn't like it as much/it def didn't feel the same). it was the one thing in the past (pre ray peat) that made me able to completely go off ndt. when i went back on ndt & still used a lower dose of iodine, i did notice that the iodine was making me tired/affecting my thyroid. i now mostly use liquid lugols, when i use it, but i still keep iodoral pills on hand.

 

[Makrosky]

it warms me & gives me energy. it was by far my fave supp. after the earthquake in japan iodoral was sold out for a long time & then when i got my new bottles i did notice a big difference from the old batches(i didn't like it as much/it def didn't feel the same). it was the one thing in the past (pre ray peat) that made me able to completely go off ndt. when i went back on ndt & still used a lower dose of iodine, i did notice that the iodine was making me tired/affecting my thyroid. i now mostly use liquid lugols, when i use it, but i still keep iodoral pills on hand.

Hey papaya,

Yeah it used to be my favorite supp on pre peat times also. But I had to take so many cofactors and pills that despite feeling great I was seeing myself like a 80 year old man. With one of those pill-dispenser boxes. Plus I didn't know much about nutrition back then so I was probably underfeeding myself + reving up metabolism... plus eating PUFAS. Plus detox reactions. NO BUENO. But there was something unique to it. I think it does more than simply help thyroid. That's why I'm sad there's not more research on it. Who could be interested on researching such a simple, cheap and unpatentable product? One of this days I'll try it again and see what happens.

I don't want to sound crazy but iodine had some strange effects. I clearly remember one day I took iodine in the morning, went downtown to buy some clothes, and when I was going to pay, a few seconds or miliseconds (It was very quick) I could hear in my mind the exact words the cashier would use, with the exact same cadence, volume and tone and HER voice, not a generic one. I never heard her voice before btw. It was precognition. Never in my life have had that before or after.

Now what you say about iodoral in Japan is very strange. Are you sure you are talking about Iodoral, or the 120mg potassium iodide pills that are used in case of nuclear emergencies to protect the thyroid ? Sorry if you already know this but Lugol/Iodoral is a mixture of elemental iodine (I2) + Potassium iodide (KI). It's two different forms of iodine. The former one is not found in nature, only in supps like Lugol/Iodoral. It creates lots of detox reactions.

Also, doses higher than 100mg of Iodine shut down the thyroid for 48-72 hours, as described in the Wolff-Chaikoff effect. So you have to take this into account when you experiment with iodine.

 

[papaya]

Hey papaya,

Yeah it used to be my favorite supp on pre peat times also. But I had to take so many cofactors and pills that despite feeling great I was seeing myself like a 80 year old man. With one of those pill-dispenser boxes. Plus I didn't know much about nutrition back then so I was probably underfeeding myself + reving up metabolism... plus eating PUFAS. Plus detox reactions. NO BUENO. But there was something unique to it. I think it does more than simply help thyroid. That's why I'm sad there's not more research on it. Who could be interested on researching such a simple, cheap and unpatentable product? One of this days I'll try it again and see what happens.

I don't want to sound crazy but iodine had some strange effects. I clearly remember one day I took iodine in the morning, went downtown to buy some clothes, and when I was going to pay, a few seconds or miliseconds (It was very quick) I could hear in my mind the exact words the cashier would use, with the exact same cadence, volume and tone. It was precognition. Never in my life have had that before or after.

Now what you say about iodoral in Japan is very strange. Are you sure you are talking about Iodoral, or the 120mg potassium iodide pills that are used in case of nuclear emergencies to protect the thyroid ? Sorry if you already know this but Lugol/Iodoral is a mixture of elemental iodine (I2) + Potassium iodide (KI). It's two different forms of iodine. The former one is not found in nature, only in supps like Lugol/Iodoral. It creates lots of detox reactions.

Also, doses higher than 100mg of Iodine shut down the thyroid for 48-72 hours, as described in the Wolff-Chaikoff effect. So you have to take this into account when you experiment with iodine.

iodoral was back ordered here due to the earthquake in japan/fukashima & the rdiation drifting toward california. the only cofactors i used were selenium & magnesium & not even regularly. i knew abt the 2 diff forms of iodine. but i didn't know that 100mg shut down your thyroid, yikes! have u ever used methylene blue?