I Went To A TCM Herbalist Doctor And Was Told Of Taking Too Much Iodine That Resulted To My Symptoms

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Hi raypeat forum,

My background: I posted here i think last december or january and having symptoms of rapid heartbeat, head tremors/back head pulse/pulsating that resulted to insomia, involutary ear movements at times(Im really worried when that happened). So I went to an endocrinologist and discarded my symptoms as not thyroid related and was refered to a neurosphyciatrist and was prescribed rivotril ( clonazepam)

Im in a county which has no T3 and NDT medication so im all taking T4 but symptoms still there. So i went to two TCM doctors. A herbalist and an accupuncturist. They diagnose me by holding my pulse. The accupuncturist told me its my mitral valve so i have 4 session of accupuncture and did an endocardiagram that says its normal. The herbalist said its my thyroid. I asked him if im hyper or hypo and he said i have too much iodine. Asked me not to eat any seafoods and avoid cabbage, radish, eggplant and carrots for life.

The herbalist gave me herbs to boil and told me to eat more green leafy vegetables.

Can i be hypothyroid because of too much iodine/seaweeds or im hyperthyroid?
 

Stilgar

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You can indeed, but it might be something else. Do you take iodine or seaweed regularly? What is your diet like?
 

papaya

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that's odd, do they add iodine to the drinking water in your country? btw, be careful, herbs from india & china r known to be extra high in heavy metals. i know a woman who got heavy metal poisoning from the herbs her tcm dr gave her.
 
OP
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You can indeed, but it might be something else. Do you take iodine or seaweed regularly? What is your diet like?

My diet when i started following ray peat was eating ice cream, cheese and sugary drinks and it really help me ang i stop taking T4 for almost three years. But i dont read much about ray peat so i dont know that seaweed is a no no. The symptoms started when i ate for the 3 days lots of seaweeds. It started first as brain fogs for 2 weeks but i still can sleep soundly. I also took a supplement that has lysine with chlorella growth factor. After 2 days the palpitation started and back of my head pulsationg. Looking back the ice cream im eating has some seaweeds in the ingredients E407 (Eucheuma seaweed)but im eating that ice cream for almost three years without any problem. But the 3days of eating pure seasweeds or the supplement with chlorella that triggers it.

Last december 2015 when the brain fog started i looked on the internet and remember about ray peat and this ray peat forum. I dont know if this is the same forum im reading year 2012/2013 but not regularly cause im ok back then.

Maybe i have an autoimmune thyroid problem?
 
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OP
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that's odd, do they add iodine to the drinking water in your country? btw, be careful, herbs from india & china r known to be extra high in heavy metals. i know a woman who got heavy metal poisoning from the herbs her tcm dr gave her.

Hi papaya its not the drinking water. Its the seaweed i ate for 3days that i think triggered this problem. Partly maybe the strenous exercise i did. The TCM herbalist i went to is popular to heal cancer and other disease that by coventional medicine cannot heal using chemotherapy. And when i went to his clinic have really long lines people. He is also honest that thyroid problem is a long process to control.

The funny part is this tcm doctor looks healthy and walks fast and i think he is around 70 to 80 years old already. The endocrinologist im seeing has no thyroid gland anymore.

I just hope we have T3 and NDT in my country so i have other option.
 
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Blossom

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It could be that the TCM guy just enjoys his life and stays away from conventional medicine. He may not be right about everything so if it were me I'd still do my own research.
 

papaya

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i think that maybe u should give him a chance. do you have a list of the herbs he wants u to take? i'll help u research them if u give me the names. can u not get ndt's sent to ur country? i'm on ndt's & want to be off them or switch to synthetic t3 w/some t4 every couple days. btw, i'm a person that's very into herbs/tcm/ayurveda & was very anti synthetic stuff.

btw, i've had the name of a tcm practitioner that sounds very similar to yours that i've been thinking abt going to just to get a diagnosis from him out of curiosity but i want to be off meds before i see him.
 
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tara

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Can i be hypothyroid because of too much iodine/seaweeds
I think so.
Cabbage is goitrogenic (antithyroid). Not sure about radishes.
Cooked carrots can have too much beta-carotene for some of us. The raw carrot salad works better for me if I rinse the grated carrot thoroughly.
Well-cooked green vegetables can be good sources of magnesium and calcium.

i know a woman who got heavy metal poisoning from the herbs her tcm dr gave her.
I heard a local story of that too recently - hospitalised with severe and worsening neurological symptoms, eventually tracked down to high lead in a TCM medicine.

Are you eating plenty of fruit/juice?

But i dont read much about ray peat ...
If you find his articles hard going, you could start with listening to his interviews, or reading transcripts. You may find them easier going. I'd recommend it rather than just relying on opinions here.
 

papaya

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hi tara!!!! this was years ago & she told me that it was her case that brought to the main stream media the danger of heavy metals in herbs. i wonder if we're talking abt the same person lol
 

tara

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hi tara!!!! this was years ago & she told me that it was her case that brought to the main stream media the danger of heavy metals in herbs. i wonder if we're talking abt the same person lol
I don't think it's likely to be the same person. I heard the story from someone I met locally who worked in the local health system and came across this person through her work. I think there may have been a number of cases of contamination affecting people badly. I've seen public health warnings about the risk around here.
 
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It could be that the TCM guy just enjoys his life and stays away from conventional medicine. He may not be right about everything so if it were me I'd still do my own research.

Yes blossom i think the TCM herbalist is from china but is staying for good in my country for decades. Yes im also doing research about supplememts that can help me.

The tcm herbalist knows only a little of my native language so there is some language barrier but his son knows how to speak the language more so i if i cannot understand i asked the son.

But im also looking for another endocrinoligist who is open minded. My country healthcare system follows american health care system but what baffles me is no pharmaceutical company is bringing or manufacturing T3 or NDT in my country
 
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OP
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i think that maybe u should give him a chance. do you have a list of the herbs he wants u to take? i'll help u research them if u give me the names. can u not get ndt's sent to ur country? i'm on ndt's & want to be off them or switch to synthetic t3 w/some t4 every couple days. btw, i'm a person that's very into herbs/tcm/ayurveda & was very anti synthetic stuff.

Yes im really hoping he is correct and will continue going to him because my endocrinologist brushed me off about my symptoms and referred to me a neuropsychiatrist. I will scan the herbs its written in chinese. Do you understand chinese or anyone here might know? He gave the written herbs and i will go to a chinese herbal store and the trained staff will mix the herbs for me.

I talked to a trusted doctor in my country and he also tried of bringing T3 in the healthcare system to no avail. It put a smile to my face that a non-endocrinologist doctor knew about T3 benefits and he also told me its anti-cancer.
 
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I think so.
Cabbage is goitrogenic (antithyroid). Not sure about radishes.
Cooked carrots can have too much beta-carotene for some of us. The raw carrot salad works better for me if I rinse the grated carrot thoroughly.
Well-cooked green vegetables can be good sources of magnesium and calcium.

If you find his articles hard going, you could start with listening to his interviews, or reading transcripts. You may find them easier going. I'd recommend it rather than just relying on opinions here.

Yes i will check the interviews and transcripts.

By the way tara or anyone i check my files about my thyroid scintigraphy and uptake scan test year 2000 and 2001. Maybe i have an autoimmune thyroiditis/hashimoto/

The first thyroid scan is my first endocrinologist. Looking back he always check my pulse rate, did a reflex test with a medical hammer. Check my chest area and stomach. I was referred to him because my TSH is high and he asked for a thyroid scan with technicium. (something was injected to me) I lost the copy but remember the word thyroiditis. He prescribed for my palpitation a capsule with granules. The palpitation back then is not comparable to the present im feeling. I sleep soundly back then. After months on that medication was blood tested again and now the TSH and i think T3 is both high or the other is high or low. Was prescribed Strumazole(for hyperthyroid) for a month. Did another blood test all normal and no more meds prescribed. After that i know something is not right so i change endocrinologist and was to do a repeat of the thyroid scan but the difference was i drank some water in the cup before the scan.

This is the result
Thyroid scintigraphy in the anterior, right anterior oblique and left anterior oblique views was obtained 24 hours after oral administration of 50 uci iodine -131. Radioactive iodine uptake values were also obtained 2 and 24 hours after giving the above mentioned iodine.

The thyroid gland has the following measurements.
Right lobe: 4.33cm x 1.81 cm
Left lobe : 4.02cm x 1.76 cm

The thyroid gland shows poor tracer localization. No definete focal labeling defects are appreciated.

Radioactive iodine testing are as follows
2hours: 1.90% (normal values 5-15%)
24hours 3.40% (normal values 20-45%)

Interpretation

Normal sized thyroid gland with poor tracer concentration and low RAI uptake values
--

After this scan i did another blood test and the doctor did not really want me to put on T4 but will not based on blood test but on clinical symptoms if it will help me. So he prescribed me T4 25mcg and was ok for years and palpitation, shortness of breath, hyper symptoms was gone. Im became tamed.

My question is why doctors do not want to prescribed based on blood test but the scan clearly shows something is wrong.
 

papaya

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i will understand the chinese herb name if it's written out in english but i won't understand if it's written w/chinese letters. u def need to know exactly what herbs u will be taking. i should go to my tcm guy to see what herbs he recommends & if they're the same as yours. i take iodine & ndt but i def think i'm hypo. r u able to order t3/t4 online? i'm in the u.s.a & i have a big chinatown that go to all the time.
 

Makrosky

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It's strange that one is only an "accupuncturist" and the other only an "herbalist". TCM has these two techniques plus diet as the 3 main tools. Are you sure they are good TCM doctors ? What was their diagnose in TCM terms ?

Also, the herbalist says it's your thyroid but in which sense ? Hyper or Hypo ? I really doubt you became hypothyroid for consuming iodine naturally present on foods. I really doubt it. Have you checked your anti-TPO and anti-Tgba on blood ? Maybe you have autoimmune thyroiditis.

What you said about the TCM "doctors" seems really weird. Very complex and serious problems need months (sometimes even years) of weekly/bi-weekly TCM accupuncture + diet + herbs. It's not a matter of boiling some herbs or doing 4 accupuncture sessions. No no no. It doesn't work like that. Please make sure those TCM doctors are serious people and not fraudsters.
 

papaya

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my tcm guy is an acupuncurist and gives u herbs. i haven't been yet. i was thinking of going just to get a tcm (pulse/tongue/facial) diagnosis. i have no interest in acupuncture. he's very cheap(hole in the wall in chinatown) & the woman who told me abt him raved abt him.
 
OP
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i will understand the chinese herb name if it's written out in english but i won't understand if it's written w/chinese letters. u def need to know exactly what herbs u will be taking. i should go to my tcm guy to see what herbs he recommends & if they're the same as yours. i take iodine & ndt but i def think i'm hypo. r u able to order t3/t4 online? i'm in the u.s.a & i have a big chinatown that go to all the time.

I will find a friend who knows how to read chinese. But i will post it here maybe someone here knew how to read chinese characterss
 
OP
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It's strange that one is only an "accupuncturist" and the other only an "herbalist". TCM has these two techniques plus diet as the 3 main tools. Are you sure they are good TCM doctors ? What was their diagnose in TCM terms ?

Also, the herbalist says it's your thyroid but in which sense ? Hyper or Hypo ? I really doubt you became hypothyroid for consuming iodine naturally present on foods. I really doubt it. Have you checked your anti-TPO and anti-Tgba on blood ? Maybe you have autoimmune thyroiditis.

What you said about the TCM "doctors" seems really weird. Very complex and serious problems need months (sometimes even years) of weekly/bi-weekly TCM accupuncture + diet + herbs. It's not a matter of boiling some herbs or doing 4 accupuncture sessions. No no no. It doesn't work like that. Please make sure those TCM doctors are serious people and not fraudsters.

Yes the accupuncturist is not into boiling. He uses cupping, magnetic accupunture and some needles. He prescribed me a bottle of tablet fufang dan shen pian because he thought its my mitral valve. I will bring my 2d echo with doppler test that says its normal.

The herbalist seldom use acupuncture but is more on to herbs. I think they are both good TCM doctors.

The herbalist was honest to me that thyroid problem is a long process that can be controlled. I mentioned it here post #5 here. My fault is i went to the herbalist not weekly because i thought that drinking herbs for three days will control my problem. Im now in my fourth visit with herbalist starting last december. I will be honest that i doubted him so i ask the one who advised me to go see him that it should be continous.

I havent check anti-tpo but i think i have autoimmune thyroiditis. Just this morning my parents is worried about my situation that my mother just recalled when i was toddler that there was a time whenever i laugh my neck will widen or something but its not a regular thing and he told my father about it and he just shook it off as normal. I think i got it from my father's side because my father has also a controlled thyroid problem but more of heart problem.
 
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AmishMechanic

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It's strange that one is only an "accupuncturist" and the other only an "herbalist". TCM has these two techniques plus diet as the 3 main tools. Are you sure they are good TCM doctors ? What was their diagnose in TCM terms ?

Also, the herbalist says it's your thyroid but in which sense ? Hyper or Hypo ? I really doubt you became hypothyroid for consuming iodine naturally present on foods. I really doubt it. Have you checked your anti-TPO and anti-Tgba on blood ? Maybe you have autoimmune thyroiditis.

What you said about the TCM "doctors" seems really weird. Very complex and serious problems need months (sometimes even years) of weekly/bi-weekly TCM accupuncture + diet + herbs. It's not a matter of boiling some herbs or doing 4 accupuncture sessions. No no no. It doesn't work like that. Please make sure those TCM doctors are serious people and not fraudsters.

I am a TCV(veterinary)M practitioner and teach TCVM to veterinarians. My mentor, a 4th generation TCM practitioner from China, says that TCVM / TCM traditionally is practiced separately. You are taught all of the branches, Acupuncture, Herbals, Tui-Na and are slotted based on your personal "knack" to practice just one of those at a time. It is not so much the case today, especially not in the west. So your TCM doctor may just be old school, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Have you mentioned what your TCM diagnosis is? Sounds like some pathological Heat with Wind maybe. What is your TCM constitution? Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal, Water? If you can tell me I may be able to offer some suggestions.

TCM is fun to work with as a western trained doctor. It reminds me to look at the individual as a System and not as a fist full of targets to treat.
 

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