How can Vitamin K2 MK-4 be Price's Activator X?

[Ras]

In everything written about Price's studies of the health of indigenous teeth, he references a mysterious food constituent that he called Activator X: the key to dental health. Masterjohn and others have explained in great detail why they believe Vitamin K2 MK-4 to be Price's Activator X, but there is almost no MK-4 in common foods. A person would have to eat 100 mL of Green Pastures' butter oil to get, on average, a paltry 80 micrograms of MK-4. One hundred grams of certain hen egg yolks might have 64 mcg, and the same measure of chicken thighs, 60 mcg. People today supplement MK-4 in the milligram range, along with the other fat-soluble vitamins Price praised, yet I can find no real proof of anyone healing their teeth like Price said he healed the teeth of his patients.

Masterjohn makes a decent argument for MK-4 being Activator X, but its dearth in food and copious use today with little benefit suggests that to be untrue, or Price to have been wrong. Is there something I'm missing? Has anyone here seen pictorial proof, or better, of someone's carious teeth before and after MK-4?

 

[baccheion]

It makes sense in a way. Vitamin K2 MK-4, vitamin K1, zinc, magnesium, and calcium all increase (intestinal and sometimes serum) alkaline phosphatase. They also inhibit GSK-3. Both are associated with bone healing.

Activator X could also be coQ10. Or K2 MK-7. Quinones.

 

[Pistachio]

In everything written about Price's studies of the health of indigenous teeth, he references a mysterious food constituent that he called Activator X: the key to dental health. Masterjohn and others have explained in great detail why they believe Vitamin K2 MK-4 to be Price's Activator X, but there is almost no MK-4 in common foods. A person would have to eat 100 mL of Green Pastures' butter oil to get, on average, a paltry 80 micrograms of MK-4. One hundred grams of certain hen egg yolks might have 64 mcg, and the same measure of chicken thighs, 60 mcg. People today supplement MK-4 in the milligram range, along with the other fat-soluble vitamins Price praised, yet I can find no real proof of anyone healing their teeth like Price said he healed the teeth of his patients.

Masterjohn makes a decent argument for MK-4 being Activator X, but its dearth in food and copious use today with little benefit suggests that to be untrue, or Price to have been wrong. Is there something I'm missing? Has anyone here seen pictorial proof, or better, of someone's carious teeth before and after MK-4?

Some people supplement in the Milligram range, but do they need to? Nutritionists say a couple hundred micrograms are enough.

 

[johnwester130]

mk7 cavity - Google Search

 

[Ras]

mk7 cavity - Google Search

I don't see any pictures of healing.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Some people supplement in the Milligram range, but do they need to? Nutritionists say a couple hundred micrograms are enough.

Nutritionists also tell you to avoid SFAs and sugar

 

[Pistachio]

Nutritionists also tell you to avoid SFAs and sugar

OK, but from where does the need for milligrams of K2 come?

 

[gaze]

OK, but from where does the need for milligrams of K2 come?

i think that's only reccomended in extreme cases of osteoporosis. i wouldn't supplement that much if there's no need. also my guess is the body is more efficient at converting vitamin k1 than we think, and k1 is in the milligrams in plant foods like greens so it's probably not that extreme, although any supplement is a risk cause it comes without vitamin A and E

 

[Hugh Johnson]

OK, but from where does the need for milligrams of K2 come?

Japanese studies.

 

[Quelsatron]

Intestinal bacteria can produce K vitamins. If primitive peoples have a close to ideal microbiome that could mean they produce a lot of vitamin k

 

[Pistachio]

Japanese studies.

Links?

 

[Dr. B]

It makes sense in a way. Vitamin K2 MK-4, vitamin K1, zinc, magnesium, and calcium all increase (intestinal and sometimes serum) alkaline phosphatase. They also inhibit GSK-3. Both are associated with bone healing.

Activator X could also be coQ10. Or K2 MK-7. Quinones.

some of the pro raw milk articles present non raw milk as useless with denatured calcium. i heard that pasteurizers use the alkaline phosphatase enzyme as a marker to see if the milks pasteurized? apparently pasteurization requires completely destroying alkaline phosphatase from the milk? so is that incorrect, since just those minerals can stimulate the aklakine phosphatase enzyme?
also what are some other things that inhibit GSK-3 and what raises it? is it basically anything pro metabolic inhibits it, and anti metabolic boosts it? regarding those nutrients, should we be supplementing any of them? there seem to be a bunch of risks with supplementing all those, ive lowered my MK-4 dosage down to just 1mg K1, 1.5mg MK4 and 300mcg MK7 just once a week and seem to feel better than using it twice or 4x a week. Im not sure what the Ks are doing but like if I use high doses of MK4 i do notice a hair shedding effect, and otherwise using it daily seems to cause issues with overall health. same with supplementing zma.. cut that down to once a week instead of daily or every other day

 

[Luann]

I know this kind of leads to a rabbit hole but Louis Kervran would probably say organic silica is factor X.
The jury's definitely out on his work though

 

[baccheion]

some of the pro raw milk articles present non raw milk as useless with denatured calcium. i heard that pasteurizers use the alkaline phosphatase enzyme as a marker to see if the milks pasteurized? apparently pasteurization requires completely destroying alkaline phosphatase from the milk? so is that incorrect, since just those minerals can stimulate the aklakine phosphatase enzyme?
also what are some other things that inhibit GSK-3 and what raises it? is it basically anything pro metabolic inhibits it, and anti metabolic boosts it? regarding those nutrients, should we be supplementing any of them? there seem to be a bunch of risks with supplementing all those, ive lowered my MK-4 dosage down to just 1mg K1, 1.5mg MK4 and 300mcg MK7 just once a week and seem to feel better than using it twice or 4x a week. Im not sure what the Ks are doing but like if I use high doses of MK4 i do notice a hair shedding effect, and otherwise using it daily seems to cause issues with overall health. same with supplementing zma.. cut that down to once a week instead of daily or every other day

They are unrelated. The body can make alkaline phosphatase. Tells a lot, though. The loss of enzymes from processing milk is real.

With raw milk, added lactase/rennet and vitamin K2 may be all that's necessary to get healing. Maybe some coq10.

Vitamin K2 and iodine both collect in the salivary glands and both keep mouth sanitized.

 

[LLight]

I know this kind of leads to a rabbit hole but Louis Kervran would probably say organic silica is factor X.
The jury's definitely out on his work though

Do you supplement with organic silica?

 

[Dr. B]

They are unrelated. The body can make alkaline phosphatase. Tells a lot, though. The loss of enzymes from processing milk is real.

With raw milk, added lactase/rennet and vitamin K2 may be all that's necessary to get healing. Maybe some coq10.

Vitamin K2 and iodine both collect in the salivary glands and both keep mouth sanitized.

why is added lactase/rennet needed? doesnt raw milk also have more k2.

also why does iodine cause dry mouth and hypothyroid/sjogrens symptoms for many people?

 

[md_a]

While dietary fat is clearly important, there may be a role for dietary carbohydrate as well. Once vitamins A and D stimulate the production of vitamin K-dependent proteins, vitamin K activates those proteins by adding carbon dioxide to them. Once added to a protein, carbon dioxide carries a negative charge and allows the protein to interact with calcium, which carries a positive charge. The greater the supply of carbon dioxide, the better vitamin K can do its job.25 Carbohydrates are rich in carbon and oxygen, and when we break them down for energy we release these elements in our breath as carbon dioxide. Because carbohydrates are richer in oxygen, burning them generates about 30 percent more carbon dioxide per calorie than burning fat, and low-carbohydrate diets have been shown to lower blood levels of carbon dioxide (Figure 3).26 Ideally, we should study this further by determining whether dietary carbohydrate affects the amount of activated vitamin K-dependent proteins in humans.
We also produce more carbon dioxide when we burn more calories, regardless of whether we are burning carbohydrate or fat. Intense exercise more than doubles the amount of carbon dioxide we produce compared to what we produce when at rest.27 Even working at a standing desk rather than a sitting desk increases both calories burned and carbon dioxide generated by about a third (Figure 4).28
Future studies should directly investigate whether exercise increases the activation of vitamin K-dependent proteins, but it seems reasonable to suggest that part of the reason exercise promotes cardiovascular health may be because it ensures a more abundant supply of carbon dioxide, which vitamin K uses to activate proteins that protect our heart valves and blood vessels from calcification. Thyroid hormone is a key regulator of the metabolic rate and may thus be a major determinant of the carbon dioxide available for activating vitamin K-dependent proteins. Theoretically, thyroid hormone should increase the rate of metabolism and a greater rate of metabolism should produce a proportionally greater supply of carbon dioxide.
Thyroid hormone directly increases the production of vitamin K-dependent proteins and protects blood vessels from calcification in rats.29 The reason for this relationship is unclear. We could speculate, however, that our bodies in their infinite wisdom use thyroid hormone to tie the production of vitamin K-dependent proteins to the production the carbon dioxide needed to activate them.

Nutritional Adjuncts to the Fat-Soluble Vitamins

🖨️ Print post Summary Vitamins A, D, and K2 interact synergistically to support immune health, provide for adequate growth, support strong bones and teeth, and protect soft tissues […]

www.westonaprice.org

 

[baccheion]

why is added lactase/rennet needed? doesnt raw milk also have more k2.

also why does iodine cause dry mouth and hypothyroid/sjogrens symptoms for many people?

Lactase for lactose, though some have lactase persistence. Rennet to cut whey from casein.

I got dry mouth from 50 mg Lugol's in 1 cup water. Such didn't occur when I consumed it with 4 cups. Iodine opposes histamine.

 

[Dr. B]

Lactase for lactose, though some have lactase persistence. Rennet to cut whey from casein.

I got dry mouth from 50 mg Lugol's in 1 cup water. Such didn't occur when I consumed it with 4 cups. Iodine opposes histamine.

doesnt that much iodine mess with thyroid? ray said even 500mcg a day long term can cause issues and he advises only getting it from milk/eggs and not supplementing with iodized salt or iodine?
what is the value of adding rennet to the milk, wouldnt this make it taste odd?

 

[baccheion]

doesnt that much iodine mess with thyroid? ray said even 500mcg a day long term can cause issues and he advises only getting it from milk/eggs and not supplementing with iodized salt or iodine?
what is the value of adding rennet to the milk, wouldnt this make it taste odd?

I was following a protocol (which left the above anecdote) not recommending an amount. Rennet isn't mandatory. Same with lactase if still naturally producing it.