Glutamic Acid Doubles Prolactin And Cortisol In Humans

[Giraffe]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97862/ So does that mean that bone broth is bad as well due to the high L-glutamine content? :/

Glutamic acid is part of all protein-cotaining foods.

On German wikipedia is a little overview:

per 100 g food
Lebensmittel *** Gesamtprotein *** Glutaminsäure *** Anteil
food *** protein [g] *** glutamic acid [mg] *** (glutamic acid / protein) [%]

... worst is whole wheat flower.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamins%C3%A4ure

You may also want to check high glutamate for glutamate antagonists.

 

[haidut]

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97966/

https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97862/ So does that mean that bone broth is bad as well due to the high L-glutamine content? :/

Glutamic acid is part of all protein-cotaining foods.

On German wikipedia is a little overview:

per 100 g food
Lebensmittel *** Gesamtprotein *** Glutaminsäure *** Anteil
food *** protein [g] *** glutamic acid [mg] *** (glutamic acid / protein) [%]

... worst is whole wheat flower.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamins%C3%A4ure

You may also want to check high glutamate for glutamate antagonists.

Taurine, glycine, magnesium, and especially vitamin B6 in its active form P5P are all excellent glutamate antagonists.

 

[Parsifal]

Thank you haidut!

 

[Parsifal]

Isn't glutamic acid in gelatin especially high? What about aspartic acid as well which seems to be very excitotoxic?

 

[mamaherrera]

so I"m curious, with all this contradictory information: is it not good to consume lots of hydrolyzed gelatin powder?? Especially long term effects, are they known?

 

[Makrosky]

so I"m curious, with all this contradictory information: is it not good to consume lots of hydrolyzed gelatin powder?? Especially long term effects, are they known?

Also interested on this. I eat 4 teaspoon a day (small ammount, I know) of Great Lakes green can (hydorlyzez collagen) and it works very good. But I don't know how safe is it after re-reading this old thread........

 

[Peata]

Theanine is supposed to work as well.

 

[mamaherrera]

and looking at old test results of mine, on a saliva test, I came out high on glutamate. . . so does that mean I should avoid glutamic acid? Is that the only thing that makes glutamate high?

 

[Kessry]

A lot of Whey and Casein protein powders have high levels of Glutamic Acid. A quick check shows that Casein-based powders have a higher ratio of glutamic acid when compared to Whey isolates. Casein-based powders have almost 2x as much glutamic acid per gram in comparison to Whey powders.

These same protein powders also contain Glycine at about a 1:10 ratio compared to glutatamic acid - would that be enough to inhibit the potential cortisol/prolactin spike from the glutamic acid?

It would be really nice if there were a somewhat simple way to measure cortisol levels throughout the day...

 

[PUTFOT]

Gelatin has glutamic acid..

 

[Tenacity]

Eating a certain brand of gelatin seems to make my acne sympoms return - perhaps this is why.

 

[dand]

Just seeing this thread as I was advising someone not to take glutamine based on what I remember Ray saying and was looking for some evidence. @haidut you mentioned lysine in here as excitatory which surprised me as I always considered it Peat friendly and had recently bought some to experiment with. I often forget to take it which makes me feel like my anecdotal response to it isn't all that positive. Typically if something makes me feel really good, I don't forget. Also, any update on thoughts on Great Lakes Gelatin? I don't feel like I have any negative responses to it, but I have been making it an increasingly large part of my protein consumption. It seems their comments about it on their website are re-assuring, but I'm not really sure what to make heads or tails of things in the context of the various arguments here. I'll try and pay a little closer attention to my responses when I use it.

@natedawggh I know you seem to have a good response to lysine :)

 

[Terma]

Here's a study I think clarifies this: The Role of Glutamine and Glutamic Acid in the Pituitary Gland Involvement in Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone Release

The Role of Glutamine and Glutamic Acid in the Pituitary Gland Involvement in Thyroid-Stimulating Hormone Release

Glutamate is a known excitatory neurotransmitter in the central nervous system, with an important role in brain function. The Glutamine/glutamate signaling system, which exists between the synaptic cells and glia cells, converts glutamine into/from glutamate in the nervous system. Large numbers of glutamate binding sites are localized in the pituitary gland. In addition, mRNA expression of many subtypes of glutamate receptors were found in peripheral tissues such as the adrenal gland, pancreas, and testis, suggesting that glutamate can act as an extracellular signal in these tissues. In this chapter, we describe the possible roles of glutamine and glutamate in an endocrine gland—the pituitary. Administration of glutamate stimulates the secretion of pituitary hormones such as prolactin, growth hormone, and cortisol. The pars tuberalis (PT), a part of the anterior pituitary gland, showed high expression of glutaminase and the amino acid transporter A2, known as the glutamine transporter, indicating increased glutamine/glutamate signaling in this structure. Furthermore, PT cells express the ionotropic glutamate receptor KA2, and administration of glutamate stimulates the secretion of thyroid stimulating hormone in the PT. We propose a new concept, wherein glutamate that is locally converted from glutamine acts as an extracellular signal in an autocrine and/or paracrine manner in the pituitary

Once again it's probably a localized phenomenon.

I'm stuck for 3 years with a brain condition that endo couldn't diagnose, and the only relief I can get from a specific symptom is from pure glutamine powder, though it doesn't always work, sometimes requiring B2 even B3 (on a different forum, somebody pointed out that B2 participates in glutaminase, but I didn't verify this). This seems like a likely pathway

 

[Terma]

I think they got the riboflavin thing from this: Riboflavin 5′‐phosphate: a potent activator of brain glutaminase

 

[johnwester130]

the supplement being sold is definitely bad for you

but when part of a whole food like gelatin, the glutamic acid is good for you

 

[shepherdgirl]

@haidut
Regarding the Carlson et al. study you cited at the beginning of this thread - do you happen to know whether they administered 10 g of free or bound glutamic acid? When you mention the dangers of glutamine/glutamic acid are you referring to free glutamine/GA only? Or do you think a lot of the bound form could also be a concern?
Thank you!

 

[haidut]

@haidut
Regarding the Carlson et al. study you cited at the beginning of this thread - do you happen to know whether they administered 10 g of free or bound glutamic acid? When you mention the dangers of glutamine/glutamic acid are you referring to free glutamine/GA only? Or do you think a lot of the bound form could also be a concern?
Thank you!

Not near a computer right now, so can't check the study. I think administering glutamic acid is more dangerous than glutamine, but glutamine has its own problems with stimulating dormant tumor growth (similar to citric acid).

 

[Antonello]

Just seeing this thread as I was advising someone not to take glutamine based on what I remember Ray saying and was looking for some evidence. @haidut you mentioned lysine in here as excitatory which surprised me as I always considered it Peat friendly and had recently bought some to experiment with. I often forget to take it which makes me feel like my anecdotal response to it isn't all that positive. Typically if something makes me feel really good, I don't forget. Also, any update on thoughts on Great Lakes Gelatin? I don't feel like I have any negative responses to it, but I have been making it an increasingly large part of my protein consumption. It seems their comments about it on their website are re-assuring, but I'm not really sure what to make heads or tails of things in the context of the various arguments here. I'll try and pay a little closer attention to my responses when I use it.

@natedawggh I know you seem to have a good response to lysine :)

I do find lysine helpful for depression and somehow for muscle mass but yes is excitatory and gives me insomnia.
how do you feel on it?

 

[BigChad]

The hydrolyzation is done with some kind of acid. I wonder what that acid is and if there are trace amounts of it left in the final product. Anecdotally, on bodybuilding forums you can find many people reporting bad reactions to hydrolyzed protein (whey, casein, etc). So, with that in mind the bad reactions seem to be legit and likely to be either excipients or the body just does not like hydrolyzed protein.

what were the complaints on bbing forums with hydrolyzed proteins, I thought hydrolyzed proteins were much better tolerated than non hydrolyzed ones?
whey protein is often hydrolyzed using protease enzymes. Not sure what the enzymes are sourced from.
Do you think protein or aminos or any other hydrolyzed products are fine, if they are using protease enzymes for the hydrolization?

Oddly enough a hydrolyzed, unflavored, grass fed, organic non gmo whey protein digested more difficultly for me than a non gmo, grass fed unflavored whey concentrate which also had sunflower lecithin in it. around 100mg or 200mg. the hydrolyzed protein had no lecithin, and was hydrolyzed using protease enzymes only.

there are a few interesting claims on hydrolyzed proteins, apparently they stimulate much more muscle growth than other proteins due to using the PEPT1 transporter, the same transporter breastmilk goes through (breast milk is hydrolyzed). Hydrolyzed proteins are supposed to be more efficient for digestion than any other proteins.
In my case, i have used hydrolyzed protein in the past, which had a bunch of fake flavor, sweetener and etc in it, and it did digest much easier and quicker than any other protein or food product. i was surprised the unflavored hydrolyzed whey caused issues

 

[haidut]

what were the complaints on bbing forums with hydrolyzed proteins, I thought hydrolyzed proteins were much better tolerated than non hydrolyzed ones?
whey protein is often hydrolyzed using protease enzymes. Not sure what the enzymes are sourced from.
Do you think protein or aminos or any other hydrolyzed products are fine, if they are using protease enzymes for the hydrolization?

Oddly enough a hydrolyzed, unflavored, grass fed, organic non gmo whey protein digested more difficultly for me than a non gmo, grass fed unflavored whey concentrate which also had sunflower lecithin in it. around 100mg or 200mg. the hydrolyzed protein had no lecithin, and was hydrolyzed using protease enzymes only.

there are a few interesting claims on hydrolyzed proteins, apparently they stimulate much more muscle growth than other proteins due to using the PEPT1 transporter, the same transporter breastmilk goes through (breast milk is hydrolyzed). Hydrolyzed proteins are supposed to be more efficient for digestion than any other proteins.
In my case, i have used hydrolyzed protein in the past, which had a bunch of fake flavor, sweetener and etc in it, and it did digest much easier and quicker than any other protein or food product. i was surprised the unflavored hydrolyzed whey caused issues

Hard to remember almost 5 years after that post but I think they said it made them bloated and gave them puffy nipples. The latter concerned them more since it affects the appearance before and during competition but I think the bloat is the more telling sign as it suggests it either stimulated endotoxin or gets into the blood not full digested and triggering an immune reaction there.