Vitamin A is dopaminergic and reduces prolactin in humans

haidut

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In theory, anything that reduces prolactin will likely also reduce estrogen and vice versa. So, since vitamin A is anti-estrogenic I wondered if there is evidence that vitamin A will lower prolactin and/or increase dopamine. Below is some evidence that vitamin A is indeed dopaminergic and lowers prolactin. The human dose was about 100,000 IU per day or pre-formed all-trans retinoic acid.
Given the human study showing significant fall in prolactin from 300mg vitamin E daily, this likely makes the vitamin A + vitamin E combo a viable option for people wanting to reduce prolactin / estrogen.

1. Human study
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16483172
"...Moreover, acitretin treatment induced a significant reduction of PRL levels after 3 months (from 182 +/- 70 to 150 +/- 56 mU/l, p < 0.05). During treatment, no change in TSH and PRL response either to TRH or dopamine infusion was observed. In conclusion, we demonstrated that treatment with low dose of acitretin induced a series of hormonal modifications that, in addition to a mild and transient reduction of TSH levels, included a persistent reduction of FT3, probably due to changes in thyroid hormone metabolism, and a decrease in PRL levels."

2. Animal and in vitro studies
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21600965
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18367633
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9884583
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9405615
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9721718
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9452386
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23040108
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1505000980
 

RPDiciple

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great

Keep those studies about smacking down estrogen coming, i need all i can get :D
 
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RPDiciple said:
great

Keep those studies about smacking down estrogen coming, i need all i can get :D

ditto. I've recently been searching the forum for estrogen-lowering related topics because of a recent blood test that showed estrogen levels close to the upper reference range. I've already increased my liver intake. Now I'll make sure to add Vit E.
 

mujuro

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So many good things about vitamin A. It's a shame I react so poorly to it.
 

BobbyDukes

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cantstoppeating said:
RPDiciple said:
great

Keep those studies about smacking down estrogen coming, i need all i can get :D

ditto. I've recently been searching the forum for estrogen-lowering related topics because of a recent blood test that showed estrogen levels close to the upper reference range. I've already increased my liver intake. Now I'll make sure to add Vit E.

I'd be careful with super dosing of vitamin E. I got certain estrogen lowering effects from it for a few months, then all of a sudden it stopped working. My libido went back down; in fact, became worse than ever. I was taking the Swanson Gamma tocopherol one recommended by many. Ramping up the capsules to many, many per day, just made the problem worse. So, one day, I decided to stop taking vitamin E and take a decent dose of K2 three times per day (about 45mg in total). I immediately saw a huge libido increase. I can only speculate on effects, but perhaps I completely overdone my vitamin E supplementation, and it antagonized my K status to the degree where I started to feel quite unwell (and that's even despite the fact that I eat liver every day in 30g amounts). I have read Dr Peat saying to take vitamin E 'sparingly'. Perhaps this is why?

So now I have the potential problem of long term, going too heavy on the K2 and antagonizing Vitamin E too much. I need to find a happy medium and stick to something.

That's just my n=1, though. Perhaps many here have been luckier with vitamin E, and can go hardcore on it.
 
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haidut

haidut

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BobbyDukes said:
cantstoppeating said:
RPDiciple said:
great

Keep those studies about smacking down estrogen coming, i need all i can get :D

ditto. I've recently been searching the forum for estrogen-lowering related topics because of a recent blood test that showed estrogen levels close to the upper reference range. I've already increased my liver intake. Now I'll make sure to add Vit E.

I'd be careful with super dosing of vitamin E. I got certain estrogen lowering effects from it for a few months, then all of a sudden it stopped working. My libido went back down; in fact, became worse than ever. I was taking the Swanson Gamma tocopherol one recommended by many. Ramping up the capsules to many, many per day, just made the problem worse. So, one day, I decided to stop taking vitamin E and take a decent dose of K2 three times per day (about 45mg in total). I immediately saw a huge libido increase. I can only speculate on effects, but perhaps I completely overdone my vitamin E supplementation, and it antagonized my K status to the degree where I started to feel quite unwell (and that's even despite the fact that I eat liver every day in 30g amounts). I have read Dr Peat saying to take vitamin E 'sparingly'. Perhaps this is why?

So now I have the potential problem of long term, going too heavy on the K2 and antagonizing Vitamin E too much. I need to find a happy medium and stick to something.

That's just my n=1, though. Perhaps many here have been luckier with vitamin E, and can go hardcore on it.

The human study on vitamin E lowering prolactin used a very "modest" dose - 300mg-400mg per day, which most people can get from the 400 IU standard capsules. The mega dosing with vitamin E to lower estrogen was done in breast cancer models and was designed to match the level of estrogen reduction seen with aromatase inhibitors. So, yes, if you need to match the effects of drugs like anastrozole then you probably need to take 2,500mg+ of tocopherols daily. But you'd be getting the side effects, and they seem to be quite similar to anastrozole's side effects. For most people, the combination of the 4 fat soluble vitamins found in doses as in EstroBan will likely have moderate but quite measurable effects, and without the dangers of depleting this or that vitamin. I was hoping somebody would do some blood tests after taking EstroBan for some time. I'd post mine, but as the seller of the supplement my results would be "tainted" so I'd prefer somebody else posting their results.
 

BobbyDukes

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haidut said:
BobbyDukes said:
cantstoppeating said:
RPDiciple said:
great

Keep those studies about smacking down estrogen coming, i need all i can get :D

ditto. I've recently been searching the forum for estrogen-lowering related topics because of a recent blood test that showed estrogen levels close to the upper reference range. I've already increased my liver intake. Now I'll make sure to add Vit E.

I'd be careful with super dosing of vitamin E. I got certain estrogen lowering effects from it for a few months, then all of a sudden it stopped working. My libido went back down; in fact, became worse than ever. I was taking the Swanson Gamma tocopherol one recommended by many. Ramping up the capsules to many, many per day, just made the problem worse. So, one day, I decided to stop taking vitamin E and take a decent dose of K2 three times per day (about 45mg in total). I immediately saw a huge libido increase. I can only speculate on effects, but perhaps I completely overdone my vitamin E supplementation, and it antagonized my K status to the degree where I started to feel quite unwell (and that's even despite the fact that I eat liver every day in 30g amounts). I have read Dr Peat saying to take vitamin E 'sparingly'. Perhaps this is why?

So now I have the potential problem of long term, going too heavy on the K2 and antagonizing Vitamin E too much. I need to find a happy medium and stick to something.

That's just my n=1, though. Perhaps many here have been luckier with vitamin E, and can go hardcore on it.

The human study on vitamin E lowering prolactin used a very "modest" dose - 300mg-400mg per day, which most people can get from the 400 IU standard capsules. The mega dosing with vitamin E to lower estrogen was done in breast cancer models and was designed to match the level of estrogen reduction seen with aromatase inhibitors. So, yes, if you need to match the effects of drugs like anastrozole then you probably need to take 2,500mg+ of tocopherols daily. But you'd be getting the side effects, and they seem to be quite similar to anastrozole's side effects. For most people, the combination of the 4 fat soluble vitamins found in doses as in EstroBan will likely have moderate but quite measurable effects, and without the dangers of depleting this or that vitamin. I was hoping somebody would do some blood tests after taking EstroBan for some time. I'd post mine, but as the seller of the supplement my results would be "tainted" so I'd prefer somebody else posting their results.

Thanks, that's good info. I need to look into estroban. I follow a lot of your posts, but never even looked at your supplements that you sell (I know they're clean). Will definitely have a good luck very soon.
 

RPDiciple

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How do you notice if you need K2 vitamin? what are typical things to look for in terms of symptoms that you are deficient or that you may need some
 
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haidut

haidut

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RPDiciple said:
How do you notice if you need K2 vitamin? what are typical things to look for in terms of symptoms that you are deficient or that you may need some

Prolonged bleeding when cut. Also, osteoporosis but that's in older people.
 

BobbyDukes

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If taking such large amounts of Vitamin A, what are the cofactors needed to make it work? I nibble t3 every hour (or try to). I try to get a lot of fructose in. Protein is a pain if you are drinking milk, so meat or cheese as well; but I try to get at least 80g (I weigh 80kgs). Only reason I ask is because Dr Peat has always said Vitamin A can be anti-thyroid (or competes with the thyroid hormone itself?).
 

RPDiciple

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Hmm i guess i dont.

But i have been using alot of aspirin and higher amounts of vit E, wich depletes K2. So yeah, i have alot left in the K2 supp as well so :p
 

taubebecker

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RPDiciple said:
How do you notice if you need K2 vitamin? what are typical things to look for in terms of symptoms that you are deficient or that you may need some

You will notice that your two bottom teeth get lots of tartar behind them and may become loose.

almost immediately after I started supplementing with Thorne D & K drops, the tartar stopped accumulating.

I have problems with high oxalate foods and gall stones, I imagine the gall stones may be another symptom of low vitamin K status.
or it may exacerbate the problem since my fat metabolism is not good.
 

kaybb

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I have zero estrogen and trust me it's no fun
One of the worst experiences I had (after Peating & reading about bad estrogen) was going off my Estrial. I am older (56yr/complete hysterectomy years ago). Migraines came back, insomnia, horrible hot flashes 24/7, gained 10 pounds after years of same weight....I was knocked down big time. Back on and doing much better. I do take 100mg progesterone with the estrial, and always have.
 
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haidut

haidut

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One of the worst experiences I had (after Peating & reading about bad estrogen) was going off my Estrial. I am older (56yr/complete hysterectomy years ago). Migraines came back, insomnia, horrible hot flashes 24/7, gained 10 pounds after years of same weight....I was knocked down big time. Back on and doing much better. I do take 100mg progesterone with the estrial, and always have.

Estrogen acts pretty much like cocaine, so of course it will make you feel good. But it chronically upregulates cortisol production and turns off the negative feedback mechanism so you will produce more and more. Have you had a test for liver function and/or prolactin? That will show you just how "good" estrogen is for you.
 

thyrulian

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Estrogen acts pretty much like cocaine, so of course it will make you feel good. But it chronically upregulates cortisol production and turns off the negative feedback mechanism so you will produce more and more. Have you had a test for liver function and/or prolactin? That will show you just how "good" estrogen is for you.

Remember the "superagonist" metabolites of (certain) phytoestrogens?

Licorice root gave me bipolar disorder like I've never known. Flipping from completely stressed to utterly manic before absolute anhedonia settled in to smother my senses for a good while. And whatever subtleties my health issues once possessed had become magnified in lock-step after that.

I don't think there's a better backbone for CREB & dynorphin than estrogen.

And I took LR for a cortisol boost, lol.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Remember the "superagonist" metabolites of (certain) phytoestrogens?

Licorice root gave me bipolar disorder like I've never known. Flipping from completely stressed to utterly manic before absolute anhedonia settled in to smother my senses for a good while. And whatever subtleties my health issues once possessed had become magnified in lock-step after that.

I don't think there's a better backbone for CREB & dynorphin than estrogen.

And I took LR for a cortisol boost, lol.

Yep, licorice together with genistein, daidzein and resveratrol are more potent than estradiol we produce. Some psychiatrists have started to recognize the role of estrogen in excitotoxocity and now recommend avoiding soy foods to people with mental issues. These recommendations were presented in last year's meeting of APA. It is much better to be calm and maybe even slightly lethargic than running around like a madman and impressing people around you with "multitasking" capabilities. There is a very strong correlation between "multitasking" abilities and bipolar disorder. Cocaine addicts are excellent "multitaskers".
 

kaybb

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Estrogen acts pretty much like cocaine, so of course it will make you feel good. But it chronically upregulates cortisol production and turns off the negative feedback mechanism so you will produce more and more. Have you had a test for liver function and/or prolactin? That will show you just how "good" estrogen is for you.
I have zero estrogen and trust me it's no fun
My last liver blood tests were all normal... (although I couldn't handle caffeine and now I can so must have had something going on, some fatty liver) Also, about "zero estrogen" .....I am assuming some estrogen (cocaine) is necessary and good, in balance..haha.
 

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