Glutamic Acid Doubles Prolactin And Cortisol In Humans

Discussion in 'Scientific Studies' started by haidut, Nov 12, 2014.

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  1. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Ray is not a fan of glutamine as it is known to stimulate cancer growth. This study may explain some of the mechanisms behind its negative effects. Glutamic acid can be derived from glutamine in the body through a simple enzymatic process when combined with water.
    Show this study to your doctor or nurse the next time they recommend ingesting 30g of glutamine daily for healing leaky gut. I kid you not - this "therapy" is all the rage these days. The dose used in this study was only 1/3 of what is commonly prescribed for leaky gut, so I can only imagine what happens at 30g intake...

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2574405

    "...The effects of several neurotransmitter amino acids on pituitary hormone secretion were examined in normal humans. Oral administration of 10 g of glutamic acid stimulated the secretion of prolactin (PRL) and cortisol to approximately twice baseline values, with no effect on GH, TSH or LH. Aspartic acid (10 g), taurine (5 g), and cysteine (5 or 10 g) had no consistent effect on any hormone measured, although the lack of effect of aspartic acid may relate to the modest increments in serum concentration achieved. Glutamic acid may be an important modulator of PRL and ACTH secretion in humans."
     
  2. gummybear

    gummybear Guest

  3. Curt :-)

    Curt :-) Member

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    Some people use massive amounts of glutamine on an empty stomach "to increase growth hormone" lol.
     
  4. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    Haidut, the study you mentioned used glutamic acid, not glutamine. They are not the same amino acid.
     
  5. answersfound

    answersfound Member

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    wow. i was taking a hydrolyzed collagen supplement 4-5 months ago and it had glutamine. recently i tested high for growth hormone. thanks for posting this. i didn't realize that glutamine was bad.
     
  6. Dutchie

    Dutchie Member

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    All things in high doses eventually are harmful,but I like to bump up tankasnowgod's comment bc glutamine and glutamic acid are not the same.
    It's true that glutamine is being used to heal leaky guts,I've done it in the past too and never had negative effects from it. So imho from my experience,the fearmongering for temporarily usage of moderate glutamine is uncalled for.

    Glutamic acid as mentioned in the article is what's being processed to make MSG. MSG has indeed been linked to several auto-immune and inflammatory processes. And I've also experienced these negative effects when I ate something with MSG. I get mooddisorders,jointpains,cognitive problems.....
    So,yes I can imagine that using glutamic acid (other than some small quantities naturally occurring in food) migth not be beneficial.
     
  7. dd99

    dd99 Member

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    Isn't dairy high in glutamic acid? Is that something we should we worried about?
     
  8. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    That's true, but glutamic acid is derived when glutamine reacts with water, which obviously happens when you ingest glutamine. Look at the Wiki page under Bioynthesis:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamic_acid
     
  9. Ami

    Ami Member

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    From that link there is no reaction between glutamine and water without the presence of specific enzymes.
    Unlike glutamine, glutamic acid is an excitatory amino acid.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glutamine
    "In human blood, glutamine is the most abundant free amino acid"
     
  10. tankasnowgod

    tankasnowgod Member

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    It's true that glutamic acid can be derived when you take glutamine, but this certainly doesn't mean that it will have the same effect as taking 10g of glutamic acid. It's glutamic acid which has been shown to double prolactin and cortisol in humans, not glutamine. The title of this thread is wrong.

    In fact, this rat study showed that glutamine either had no effect on prolactin in an acute dose, or possibly suppressed it in repeated doses- Effect of glutamine and nucleosides on prolactin secretion in the rat. - PubMed - NCBI

    And yes, it's true that rats aren't humans and injecting an amino acid is different than taking it orally.
     
  11. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    OK, I changed the title and some of the wording of the original post. Btw, I still think supplementing isolated glutamine is not a good idea. Aside from Ray's opinion on it, I have seen studies showing it stimulates all kinds of cancer growth. I believe the most strongly affected one was colon cancer, which is ironic since glutamine is often prescribed for gut conditions. The mechanism of action of glutamine on cancer growth is likely through its potent stimulation of growth hormone release (in humans). Given that growth hormone and prolactin are typically highly correlated I would not be surprised if glutamine also raises prolactin in humans.
    But, until we see a direct study I guess all we can say is that glutamine CAN raise prolactin depending on its conversion to glutamic acid.
     
  12. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    When I looked at this a few months ago, it seemed like glutamic acid was the preponderant AA in every protein food I ate. I think there is more to this story; at least I hope there is.
     
  13. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    I think the issue is that isolated aminos have hormone-like effect, as per Ray's writings. Thus, consuming 10g of pure glutamic acid and a chunk of protein containing 10g of glutamic acid as part of protein peptides are two very different things metabolically. With that in mins, I don't know of a situation in nature that would involve consuming isolated amino acids, so have probably not evolved a proper response to such experimentation done in modern times. Our body probably reacts to it like a drug and depending on the amino acid either initiates some sort of excitotoxic response (arginine, glutamic acid, lysine, aspartic acid, etc) or an inhibitory response (taurine, glycine, alanine, BCAA, threonine, etc.) when presented with an amount of an isolated amino acid that is beyond the amount that can be quickly metabolized as fuel by gluconeogenesis or used for protein synthesis.
     
  14. BingDing

    BingDing Member

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    That is a plausible mechanism, haidut, thanks. I found one article saying people who are sensitive to MSG should be cautious supplementing glutamine since the body converts it into glutamate, which we know can be neurotoxic in high amounts.
     
  15. artemis

    artemis Member

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    The "Great Lakes" brand gelatin is 11.4% glutamic acid per serving. I had severe reactions to the hydrolized form (green can) a few months ago. About an hour after ingesting, I would be hit with a wave of nausea, palpitations, lightheadedness, weakness, feeling of throat closing up. Really scary. Didn't make the connection till it happened maybe 4 or 5 days in a row and then I realized that the only change I had made was that I had switched from the red can to the green can. Never happened again after I stopped taking it. I tolerate the red can fine, though. Obviously something with the hydrolization process.
     
  16. OP
    haidut

    haidut Member

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    The hydrolyzation is done with some kind of acid. I wonder what that acid is and if there are trace amounts of it left in the final product. Anecdotally, on bodybuilding forums you can find many people reporting bad reactions to hydrolyzed protein (whey, casein, etc). So, with that in mind the bad reactions seem to be legit and likely to be either excipients or the body just does not like hydrolyzed protein.
     
  17. artemis

    artemis Member

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    Thinking back on how severe my symptoms were, I've been digging around the internets trying to find out more about it. I'm finding there are majorly conflicting trains of thought on whether glutamic acid can be converted by the body into MSG. Seems about half the "experts" say it can, and half say it cannot. Well, I know for me it definitely can. It was just like I had consumed a huge dose of MSG (and now, after reading up on it, I've learned that during my episodes of dizziness, weakness, nausea, etc., some of my brain cells were apparently dying! Oh boy!)

    In any case, all agree that glutamic acid is an "excitatory" amino acid.

    I think I'm going to stop using the red can, too. I'll just have to put more effort into making real bone broth.
    I did make a big pot of chicken foot broth this week, and it did gel beautifully, but I just couldn't get past the "ick" factor. The few sips I tried tasted great, but I just couldn't drink it without getting disturbing visions of that pot full of little "hands!" It is quite a jolting sight. And you're supposed to blanch them first, and peel the yellow skin off, then chop off the nails/claws! I raise my own chickens, and I just couldn't stomach it. I'm not usually such a wuss about things like that. I gave it all to the dogs (they loved it, of course).
    It was my first try -- maybe I'll get used to it.
     
  18. artemis

    artemis Member

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    From "Politics and Science: Autoimmune Diseases and Movement Disorders" (2012)

    RP: The interaction of estrogen as an excitatory thing, with the polyunsaturated fats, which are excitatory things…these, besides producing inflammation and blocking energy production, they activate other systems. For example, the glutamate; glutamic acid…it’s why monosodium glutamate produces brain injury. Because that excites cells to the point that if there’s not enough energy supply, the cells will die. Estrogen and the unsaturated fats both activate this glutamate excitatory system, and those interact, all of them, to increase a set of enzymes that the transglutaminase is the enzyme that’s involved in celiac disease, the gluten sensitivity disease. And this enzyme is normally involved in maturing cells that are under the influence of stress, as in the surface of the skin when it’s maturing into a hardened, keratinized layer. Or in the uterus, as estrogen is causing the lining of the uterus to mature and cause keratinized cells to form. But in the brain, this excitation from unsaturated fats — lipid peroxidation breakdown and estrogen and the glutamic acid system — these excite the formation of the transglutaminase. And transglutaminase happens to form polymers and fibrils and deposits of these various enzymes that are known to accumulate in Huntington’s, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis and so on. The tau protein, for example, in Alzhehimer’s disease, transglutaminase activates a reaction at the end of the tau protein, or in various places with all of these other proteins that accumulate and form fibrils. And this enzyme works on amino groups which, when the metabolism is healthy and producing energy by use of oxidative metabolism, it’s producing a constant supply of carbon dioxide, and carbon dioxide spontaneously combines with amino groups. All kinds of amino groups, every protein in the body should have a supply of carbon dioxide, preventing the action of enzymes such as transglutaminase, which would bind them and cause them to condense and form fibrils. And I suspect that in places where estrogen is dominant, or in the skin, where the cells are exposed to purer air, the carbon dioxide is displaced either by the effect of estrogen, or just by the high saturation of oxygen. And the absence of the carbon dioxide allows this transglutaminase to crosslink, inactivate, and harden the protein. When it happens inside your brain, you get these abnormal deposits of protein that should only happen in cells that are terminally differentiating and getting ready to slough off.
     
  19. Parsifal

    Parsifal Member

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    So does that mean that bone broth is bad as well due to the high L-glutamine content? :/
     
  20. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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    This is from their website ... http://www.greatlakesgelatin.com/consumer/noMSG.php
     
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