Brexit

[Tarmander]

"The reason people are reacting to you is because you dismiss them out of hand".

This is you stating I dismiss out of hand.

Your clearly infuriated, I would say private message me your feelings and let the thread run,however the thread has been ruined about 7 pages ago so please keep going.
Entertain your immovable haughtiness.

Would you like to pull my hair while your at it or throw paper balls at me from the back of the class?

"you're"

....ahhh. I am just joking around with you man, you're a good sport...I would never drop so low as to correct grammar.

 

[Drareg]

"you're"

....ahhh. I am just joking around with you man, you're a good sport...I would never drop so low as to correct grammar.

No problem ,I understand what your saying and getting at, your trying to keep the peace and some balance .

It's politically fuelled debate and it can appear far more heated.

There are though some undercurrents of pathological xenophobia running through some members and I think it's fair to bring them out.

 

[Drareg]

I'm not talking about economic issues; I don't know how you got that idea. I care about my people, our culture, our future. I care that we're on track to become minorities in our own countries. I don't like debating but I'm going to keep speaking out for whites.

You do realise your love of white flesh could change based on a few solar system movements?

Hypothetically if all we have left on the planet is white peoples and the sun somehow moves closer or we loose a protective layer in the atmosphere we will begin to adapt and darken, with time we will be darker skinned no longer white, eye colour and the rest will adopt according to the environment.

Your not speaking out for whites, I'm white and many more you don't represent do not have a pathological attachment to the colour of flesh.

Your culture is majority toxic if it's the west and it's ruining the planet and human health, you currently have a very depressing future based on said culture.

 

[tobieagle]

You do realise your love of white flesh could change based on a few solar system movements?

Hypothetically if all we have left on the planet is white peoples and the sun somehow moves closer or we loose a protective layer in the atmosphere we will begin to adapt and darken, with time we will be darker skinned no longer white, eye colour and the rest will adopt according to the environment.

Your not speaking out for whites, I'm white and many more you don't represent do not have a pathological attachment to the colour of flesh.

Your culture is majority toxic if it's the west and it's ruining the planet and human health, you currently have a very depressing future based on said culture.

Dareg, I really hope you are trolling here.
If not, I am feeling sorry for you.

 

[Simonsays]

I wasnt going to join in against my better judgement, because this thread has just descended into point scoring and name calling. Entrenched sides lobbing grenades at each other with "their truth"

Has anyone been convinced by the other side?? Those on the right tend to believe in genes and those on the left environment.

Those who dont have strong beliefs either way stopped reading this thread ages ago, i believe, leaving it to the zealots.

I dont think any argument facts, science, surveys quoting Peat etc, is going to convince the IQ/geneticists, or vice versa .

Authoritarian parenting generally produces authoritarian children, who become authoritarian adults and so it goes on, left or right (interestingly there are a few right wing passionate commentators/journalists in the UK who were Trotskyists/Marxists in their younger days (Peter Hitchins is a good example, his brother Christopher is more well known in the US) they still reflect their childhood trauma projected into their beliefs/politics....)

The Brothers Hitchens

 

[Such_Saturation]

You want to reap the benefits of this forum and of the work of Ray Peat, but want to stay committed to an ideology that is exactly the opposite of it's ideals.

 

[kyle]

The study I posted proves that genes don't have much too do with biological development

It's definitely an example of adaption but how does it prove genes don't have "much to do" with it?

This is where you enter into biochemical questions which as far as I know, are deeply in the realm of speculation before proving anything on the level you're suggesting.

What I'm saying is entirely modest: I agree with Peat WRT inheritance. I only am trying to correct the other extreme to genetic determinism which is that genes are irrelevant.

There are though some undercurrents of pathological xenophobia running through some members and I think it's fair to bring them out.

I'm only xenophobic toward idiots. Probably why I find your incomprehensible word-salads to be so off-putting.

Your not speaking out for whites, I'm white and many more you don't represent do not have a pathological attachment to the colour of flesh.

I think I speak for Sheik to that we're not talking about a 'skin color', but our friends, family and community whom we love. You're being intentionally obtuse. I'll try to be charitable and resist the urge to insult you further than you've already insulted yourself.

Those on the right tend to believe in genes and those on the left environment.

That might be roughly true but I'd say both right/left is wrong.

It isn't about biological theory but the way government/media frames the race issue. I don't really care one way or another if genes or environment cause differences. I'm fine with differences. If people are different, we're led to believe it's a problem. If the British want to be different, the problem is the British we're told. What if the problem is the EU cannot govern the British? What if the problem is we're putting one-size-fits-all on everything?

We're told to believe, "well, you're just a blank slate" and you need to fit in. If anyone that says no, this is WHO I am is told they're a bigot, xenophobe, whatever. Maybe it's ok to love your culture, ethnic group and people, even the color of their skin. If someone finds their white skin beautiful, why not? If someone finds their brown skin beautiful, why not? If asian finds their yellow skin beautiful, why not?

If there is any "pathology" present, it's this utter discomfort of facing an existential reality. You are born who you are, with your family and your community. That's it. Some vague idea where all the races must be made the same is for lack of better term, schizo. You're alienated from your own being. That's fine, you can go through life terrified of your self. One day we'll return to the ground where skin color won't matter and you can put to rest all your silly hang-ups.

 

[CarbAppreciator]

I am going back on my word and posting here again

Look at us! What would Ray say? lol

The BRITISH PEOPLE...VOTED... to leave the EU...
that is what this thread is about... first ppl shared their views on this topic, then quickly inflammatory words started appearing, name calling, people taking sides, people creating strawmen.... there is no need for this, we don;t need to have awful threads like this on this forum, it makes us look bad.

I played a role in causing this thread to go to ***t... my first post was over the top and I posted it knowing that it could anger ppl who didnt have my views, I could have shared my views in a more digestible and cooler tone, but I didn't and im sorry.

We on this forum all share a unique lens, that is RP articles, that we use to understand our environment. This makes us have lots in common in terms of worldview, and we shouldn't lose sight of that.

In a mature discussion, people tend to focus first on where they agree, then explain clearly their differences and why etc... we should strive to follow that pattern on this forum, it makes us and RP all look better.

As we can see from this thread, it doesn't take much to cause an ugly stain on this forum. If political threads derail like this, and if we can't make mature and thoughtful posts, then I propose the moderators should consider limiting political discussions.

 

[snowboard111]

Is popcorn Peat approved?

 

[Simonsays]

If the British want to be different, the problem is the British we're told. What if the problem is the EU cannot govern the British? What if the problem is we're putting one-size-fits-all on everything?

Getting back to the Brexit vote, the leaver voters were given the impression that by leaving the EU, they would be able to control immigration and by implication, deportation of immigrants and "take back control of their country" whatever that means. This was a lie and their leaders have fled the field, to leave others to deal with the mess. (Johnson and Farage) As they know it cant be delivered. .

Two Remain vans are following Nigel Farage around London to troll him

Nigel Farage resigns as Ukip leader

 

[Sheik]

You do realise your love of white flesh could change based on a few solar system movements?

Hypothetically if all we have left on the planet is white peoples and the sun somehow moves closer or we loose a protective layer in the atmosphere we will begin to adapt and darken, with time we will be darker skinned no longer white, eye colour and the rest will adopt according to the environment.

Your not speaking out for whites, I'm white and many more you don't represent do not have a pathological attachment to the colour of flesh.

Your culture is majority toxic if it's the west and it's ruining the planet and human health, you currently have a very depressing future based on said culture.

It's not about skin color. That's an intentional strawman.

"Pathological attachment"... If you have to take digs at somebody it goes to show that you're not above it.

 

[snowboard111]

Drareg, just out of curiosity, where do you live?

 

[jaguar43]

It's definitely an example of adaption but how does it prove genes don't have "much to do" with it?

This is where you enter into biochemical questions which as far as I know, are deeply in the realm of speculation before proving anything on the level you're suggesting.

What I'm saying is entirely modest: I agree with Peat WRT inheritance. I only am trying to correct the other extreme to genetic determinism which is that genes are irrelevant.

.

The mainstream idea is that brain size is inherited through genes. Since the study proves other wise how can gene's be responsible for it ? Brain size is usually considered as a sign of intelligence.

But you still haven't answered my question. What things do you considered to be inherited through genes ? Because it seems you think diseases and health to not be genetic.

I will add that it's not that I don't think genes exist, because I do. But according to Ray Peat the role of genes has been overplayed substantially.

 

[michael94]

I thought we settled this last time? Ray's argument that twin studies are invalid because of shared womb environment or that environment makes genetics matter very little is completely dismantled by the Wilson Effect. Which is...twins reared apart, living in different environments, become more similar as they get older. Let me repeat, twins living in different environments are LEAST similar when they come out of the womb as newborns.



The Wilson Effect: the increase in heritability of IQ with age. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[lvysaur]

I don't think thats the issue. I think white americans are in an economic position that has been worse than previous generations, specifically their parents. Instead of trying to discuss real economic issues ( which some people are trying too) they resort to the anti-white cliches and blame minorities or whoever else.

The far left and the far right were fundamentally the same people, just superficially different

I used to be somewhat on-board with the "deconstruct society in terms of genes" types, but the movement as a whole tends to be very emotionally driven and prescriptive, not descriptive. Less "sensing" and more "intuitive", for those familiar with MBTI.

The "intuitive"/"emotional" aspect tends to stem from white supremacy, and evidence that doesn't fit that dogma tends to be ignored. Remember, Asians aren't smart despite their high IQs because they're "less creative", "have a narrower normal distribution", or various other disproven myths/unprovable assertions that persist as fact among the white supremacist types.

There's also a lot of mismatch between diet and genotype. People from hot climates traditionally ate diets high in sugar/saturated fat and very low in PUFA, and have higher levels of certain desaturases, for example. Cold climate people have certain adaptations in the opposite direction that dealt with excess O3 PUFA from a cold climate marine diet.

It honestly boggles my mind that an IQ/HBD person could actually benefit from Peat and not have their worldview changed; what's likely happening is that they haven't actually made major progress in their own health situation yet, and remain unchanged, despite following some of the advice here. This is no fault of their own, but unfortunately high stress is high stress, and stressful people do and say certain things that make them not-so-fun to be around, while true recovery from a stressful state is good evidence for how highly malleable the human is (even if a lot of it is through interaction with the genome).

I think that placing high importance in political conspiracy theories is a sign of high cortisol/general stress. I say this from personal experience (and that's not to say that all conspiracy theories are necessarily false).

 

[jaguar43]

The far left and the far right were fundamentally the same people, just superficially different

I used to be somewhat on-board with the "deconstruct society in terms of genes" types, but the movement as a whole tends to be very emotionally driven and prescriptive, not descriptive. Less "sensing" and more "intuitive", for those familiar with MBTI.

The "intuitive"/"emotional" aspect tends to stem from white supremacy, and evidence that doesn't fit that dogma tends to be ignored. Remember, Asians aren't smart despite their high IQs because they're "less creative", "have a narrower normal distribution", or various other disproven myths/unprovable assertions that persist as fact among the white supremacist types.

There's also a lot of mismatch between diet and genotype. People from hot climates traditionally ate diets high in sugar/saturated fat and very low in PUFA, and have higher levels of certain desaturases, for example. Cold climate people have certain adaptations in the opposite direction that dealt with excess O3 PUFA from a cold climate marine diet.

It honestly boggles my mind that an IQ/HBD person could actually benefit from Peat and not have their worldview changed; what's likely happening is that they haven't actually made major progress in their own health situation yet, and remain unchanged, despite following some of the advice here. This is no fault of their own, but unfortunately high stress is high stress, and stressful people do and say certain things that make them not-so-fun to be around, while true recovery from a stressful state is good evidence for how highly malleable the human is (even if a lot of it is through interaction with the genome).

I think that placing high importance in political conspiracy theories is a sign of high cortisol/general stress. I say this from personal experience (and that's not to say that all conspiracy theories are necessarily false).

I agree with 90 percent of what you say. One thing you do ignore is the cultural trends that allow certain ideas to be viewed more favorably. Like you said, evidence that doesn't fit dogma tends to be ignored. But evidence that doesn't fit cultural ideologies tends to ignored, or worse.

Whether people can transcend certain ideological dogmas from benefitting from Ray Peat's work ( improving their health as you said) I am not sure. I think it's possible, but I think there is more to the story.

Here is a quote by Ray Peat on genetic determinism and culture.....

One of the cultural trends that makes genetic determinism attractive is the theory of radical individualism, something that has grown up with protestant christianity, according to some historians.

Genes, Carbon Dioxide and Adaptation.

Danny Roddy's Facebook page has some interesting quotes from Ray Peat on american culture. Near the end of Generative Energy, Ray Peat discusses what makes some people view truth and others ignore it. He gives the example of Broda Barnes work, and how he was fundamental ignored for fifty years. To generalize what he said, he believes that its an attitude that one is driven by status instead of finding truth.

I think it's a mixture of these things and probably more.

 

[Such_Saturation]

http://lipeatarianism.com/

 

[Drareg]

Drareg, just out of curiosity, where do you live?

What difference does it make?

 

[Drareg]

It's definitely an example of adaption but how does it prove genes don't have "much to do" with it?

This is where you enter into biochemical questions which as far as I know, are deeply in the realm of speculation before proving anything on the level you're suggesting.

What I'm saying is entirely modest: I agree with Peat WRT inheritance. I only am trying to correct the other extreme to genetic determinism which is that genes are irrelevant.



I'm only xenophobic toward idiots. Probably why I find your incomprehensible word-salads to be so off-putting.



I think I speak for Sheik to that we're not talking about a 'skin color', but our friends, family and community whom we love. You're being intentionally obtuse. I'll try to be charitable and resist the urge to insult you further than you've already insulted yourself.



That might be roughly true but I'd say both right/left is wrong.

It isn't about biological theory but the way government/media frames the race issue. I don't really care one way or another if genes or environment cause differences. I'm fine with differences. If people are different, we're led to believe it's a problem. If the British want to be different, the problem is the British we're told. What if the problem is the EU cannot govern the British? What if the problem is we're putting one-size-fits-all on everything?

We're told to believe, "well, you're just a blank slate" and you need to fit in. If anyone that says no, this is WHO I am is told they're a bigot, xenophobe, whatever. Maybe it's ok to love your culture, ethnic group and people, even the color of their skin. If someone finds their white skin beautiful, why not? If someone finds their brown skin beautiful, why not? If asian finds their yellow skin beautiful, why not?

If there is any "pathology" present, it's this utter discomfort of facing an existential reality. You are born who you are, with your family and your community. That's it. Some vague idea where all the races must be made the same is for lack of better term, schizo. You're alienated from your own being. That's fine, you can go through life terrified of your self. One day we'll return to the ground where skin color won't matter and you can put to rest all your silly hang-ups.

Feel free to continue with the insult, your insults are just that,can't respond to valid points made,just forcing your poorly explained views and then insulting when frustrated.

The word salad is incomprehensible to your brain,not surprising considering your rigid views.

Well done on finally accepting/admitting your xenophobic.

 

[Drareg]

I thought we settled this last time? Ray's argument that twin studies are invalid because of shared womb environment or that environment makes genetics matter very little is completely dismantled by the Wilson Effect. Which is...twins reared apart, living in different environments, become more similar as they get older. Let me repeat, twins living in different environments are LEAST similar when they come out of the womb as newborns.



The Wilson Effect: the increase in heritability of IQ with age. - PubMed - NCBI

From the study.

"These conclusions apply to the Westernized industrial democracies in which most of the studies have been carried out".

Far from dismantled, this study dismantled itself with the above quote. Culture is information, western culture is informing the twins and so is the western diet.